where do babys go when they die

[Asar'el]

Someone mentioned this elsewhere, but I feel it fits here also.

Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw [it], he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

1) Little children are not babies

2) This is referring to attitude

Quite so; in addition, you might note that although Church Punk highlights and forbid them not, the full sense includes what not to forbid - and that is to come unto me.

If they can come to Christ, they are not the babies referred to in this thread, surely?

 

[supahoopsfan]

I definitely agree with Calmius.

 

[Svt4Him]

Where does original sin come from, as I recall the Bible says sin entered the world through Adam, it didn't enter the children.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Where does original sin come from, as I recall the Bible says sin entered the world through Adam, it didn't enter the children.

The wages of sin are death, so somehow a dying baby would be connected to sin.

 

[Rechtgläubig]

Where does original sin come from, as I recall the Bible says sin entered the world through Adam, it didn't enter the children.

Because, "just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned" (Romans 5:12)

Adam's sinful flesh is passed on to his children and so on. He was created "good", but after he sinned mankind is no longer called good anymore. King David knew this and he cries out in psalm 51:

5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Sin is not just a freak thing that we all just happen to have in common for no reason at all. Our very natures themselves are corrupt and as we grow older our "original sin", the sins that we are, manifests itself into "actual sins", the things we do.

Ephesians 2:3 supports all of this...

3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.

And from God's mouth in Genesis...

21 The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

 

[Rechtgläubig]

Good Day, Recht

Graet Pic of your son, what is he eating?

Bill

Hi Bill! Thanks! He is eating greenbeans, his favorite - NOT! LOL!

 

[Asar'el]

Where does original sin come from, as I recall the Bible says sin entered the world through Adam, it didn't enter the children.

Adam's sin is the original sin we speak of. It is inherited, by natural generation, by all descendants of Adam and Eve. Christ was free of it, since He is the Son of God and God the Son... being born through super-natural generation from Mary being over-shadowed by the Holy Ghost.

Everyone else has this original sin; it is naturally passed on from parents to children. The children of elect parents are sanctified, it says, by the believing parent, and are holy; I believe this makes it plain that, should they die in this state, their eternal resting place will be heaven.

 

[Svt4Him]

So a baby is judged for their forefathers sins? Sin is death. What sin does a baby do if they die and they're two days old? If they are judged for Adam's sin, then how does that fit in what God has said when He said He will not judge a person on their fathers (even Adam's) sins?

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Still, Svt4Him, as someone quoted before, Genesis 8:21

The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

There is no excuse, even for babies.

 

[Harry the Heretic]

The wages of sin are death, so somehow a dying baby would be connected to sin.

Just as dying adult Christian. I believe babies are like Adam and Eve were before the fall. Not aware that they are naked. Adam and Eve were sinless not because they were moral people, but because they had no knowledge of sin. The accountability model is based not upon understanding faith and repentance etc. but the age when one begins to see their own wickedness. Adam and Eve "fell from grace" in a transgression, but if the fruit that was eaten had not given them knowledge of their transgression.... well we can only "what if" at this point, but I believe they wouldn't have known they were naked.

It is the "knowledge" of our sin that is the curse. And that is what separates us from God, just in like manner it separates earthly children ( as they learn to disobey) from their parents in some instances.

 

[Rechtgläubig]

So a baby is judged for their forefathers sins? Sin is death. What sin does a baby do if they die and they're two days old? If they are judged for Adam's sin, then how does that fit in what God has said when He said He will not judge a person on their fathers (even Adam's) sins?

You are right we are not judged for what our fathers have done. If I kill, my children are not judged for that, I alone am accountable for that. My children are however, are the same thing that their daddy is (flesh born of flesh). They inherrit my sinful nature. See, you keep looking for an outward action that a child has done. What I am saying is that the outward actions are a result of a state of being, a quality that every human being has naturaly.

"For original sin is not a sin which is committed, but it inheres in the nature, substance, and essence of man, so that, though no wicked thought ever should arise in the heart of corrupt man, no idle word were spoken, no wicked deed were done, yet the nature is nevertheless corrupted through original sin, which is born in us by reason of the sinful seed, and is a fountainhead of all other actual sins, as wicked thoughts, words, and works, as it is written Matt. 15, 19: Out of the heart proceed evil thoughts. Also Gen. 6, 5; 8, 21: The imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth." (Formula of Concord)

Although, my children aren't accountable if I kill someone, we are of the same flesh and even though they are babies, that nature is already manifesting itself and they do things they know they shouldn't do. Just like we are not punished for the actual act that Adam did. Now if my killing causes me to be executed, even though my kids are not held responsible for my actions, don't you think they will be affected for life by my sin?

 

[Lynn73]

I think babies will go to heaven since they are not intelligent enough to understand Bible and God, they cannot be "born again" like adults can.

Its also my personal belief that you cant really help them if you baptize them when they're born, since once again, they cannot consciously accept God

I agree with this. Baptism of babies doesn't do a thing. Believing is supposed to come first (He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved). Babies cannot understand the gospel, nor receive Christ. It's an impossiblility, therefore is the Lord going to condemn them for not doing something that is impossible for them to do? I don't think so.

 

[Church Punk]

I have always belived (even before I was saved) that up untill that age of accountability that when a young one dies that they will go to heaven. You may be asking "when is that age", the answer is ONLY GOD knows that forsure. None of us know if the other person is saved or not. THat is only between God and that person. You may have an Idea if they are or not by the "Fruits of their labors" but other than that we do not know and will never know this side of heaven, when God reveals it to us. For our little minds that we have right now could never comprehend the things that God knows.

Peace

I like this! I am done and done
peace be with you

 

[Dust and Ashes]

There is no excuse, even for babies.

Bummer. I really wanted to have children and my wife will be crushed when I tell here that I forbid it. I couldn't bear to think that my child could die before they get old enough to understand they need to be saved and thus go to hell forever. I love them too much to ever bring them into this rotten, pathetic world just so they can go to hell.

 

[Asar'el]

Bummer. I really wanted to have children and my wife will be crushed when I tell here that I forbid it. I couldn't bear to think that my child could die before they get old enough to understand they need to be saved and thus go to hell forever. I love them too much to ever bring them into this rotten, pathetic world just so they can go to hell.

You misunderstand (or those telling it mistell); this is not the case at all.

The children of an elect (i.e. believing) parent (and yes, one is sufficient!) are called holy. I believe that is a clear indication that God will accept such into heaven for their parent's sake. A child born to believing parents can only go to Hell by rejecting Christ - whether through neglect of teaching (which parents will have to account for) or own, deliberate choice...

So... if you and/or your wife are saved ... you are free to (one might say called to, lol) increase the number of believers with godly children -- and, of course, their upbringing ...

 

[Asar'el]

So a baby is judged for their forefathers sins? Sin is death. What sin does a baby do if they die and they're two days old? If they are judged for Adam's sin, then how does that fit in what God has said when He said He will not judge a person on their fathers (even Adam's) sins?

The Scripture does indeed say,

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

You are adding the bit about "even Adam's", which is clearly NOT scriptural - since, in fact, as was said above, through Adam sin entered the world, and death through sin, etc...

The verse fits right along-side the commandment:

...for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me...

The explanation is simple: Children 'inherit' (for lack of a better word) sins from their parents, for those sins the parents commit before the children are born, and that is because because children are in (i.e. part of) their parents before they are born. After they are born, that 'link' is severed, and further sins of their parents are not to be laid at the account of the children. There are two parts regarding sins of the fathers and children... and both are true and correct. Don't take one without the other - it would be out of context...

Adam and Eve commited that original sin before anyone else was born ... so everyone born by natural generation have that one... we also 'inherit' the ones our parents did before we are born... and our grandparents before our parents were born ... and so on and so forth back to that one from Adam and Eve. Quite a lot of sin when you look at it, really....

Isn't it wonderful how merciful our God is?

 

[Asar'el]

I think babies will go to heaven since they are not intelligent enough to understand Bible and God, they cannot be "born again" like adults can.

Intelligence to understand Bible and God? Not to put too fine a point on this, but are you suggesting idiots all go to Heaven? What has intelligence to do with faith?

I stand firm on the truth of Scripture; Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If you want to argue that 'no man' means only males, or only adults, or anything like that, the original greek will show it means 'no one, nothing'; even as it has been understood by the protestant church through the ages.

Its also my personal belief that you cant really help them if you baptize them when they're born, since once again, they cannot consciously accept God

Personal belief aside, Scripture is what matters. But regarding baptism of children, you should know that baptism (of children or adults) is a token sign; in the case of children, it is a sign the parents offer to show their intention of bringing up a child unto the Lord. There is no mysticism in baptism; adult or infant - it is still only water; it is something done to show the world our intent to walk with God, to be 'sealed' to Christ, and to orderly follow the way laid before us.

 

[Asar'el]

I agree with this. Baptism of babies doesn't do a thing.

Baptism of adults doesn't do a thing either (unless you count cleaning them of dirt, maybe).

Believing is supposed to come first (He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved).

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

That's not 'He that believeth then is baptized...' Order is not implied there, nor the importance on baptism, but rather belief. Lack of baptism is not given as a cause of damnation, only unbelief...

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Baptism is not given as required there - but indeed, it is performed as a token, a seal of the journey began with Christ. Now, the one they spoke to was baptized, and all his, we are told, straightway. Do you think 'all his' believed straightway when the keeper of the prison went to them? How certain can we say 'all his' did NOT include children or babies??

Babies cannot understand the gospel, nor receive Christ. It's an impossiblility, therefore is the Lord going to condemn them for not doing something that is impossible for them to do? I don't think so.

It is impossible for men to be saved without God's first calling them - so why should that argument hold any weight? You or I cannot come unless the Father first draw us - just as impossible for us as it would be (in your opinion) for a child.

It is not our ability that saves. We have God's Word (Christ being the incarnation of that Word) declared in His written word - the bible.

Children of believing parents are declared holy; those of unbelieving parents, unclean. Kind of clear-cut, don't you think?

 

[Dust and Ashes]

You misunderstand (or those telling it mistell); this is not the case at all.

The children of an elect (i.e. believing) parent (and yes, one is sufficient!) are called holy. I believe that is a clear indication that God will accept such into heaven for their parent's sake. A child born to believing parents can only go to Hell by rejecting Christ - whether through neglect of teaching (which parents will have to account for) or own, deliberate choice...

So... if you and/or your wife are saved ... you are free to (one might say called to, lol) increase the number of believers with godly children -- and, of course, their upbringing ...

Don't want to take that chance. One of the 100 different opinions might be right/wrong. Too much of a gamble.

 

[Adoniram]

This seems to be a quite touchy subject. I'm not positive of the answer, however, I have found scripture that may indicate that a precedent has been set.

The passage is found in Deut. 1, verses 34-40.

Deuteronomy 1 (NIV)
34 When the LORD heard what you said, he was angry and solemnly swore: 35 "Not a man of this evil generation shall see the good land I swore to give your forefathers, 36 except Caleb son of Jephunneh. He will see it, and I will give him and his descendants the land he set his feet on, because he followed the LORD wholeheartedly."
37 Because of you the LORD became angry with me also and said, "You shall not enter it, either. 38 But your assistant, Joshua son of Nun, will enter it. Encourage him, because he will lead Israel to inherit it. 39 And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad-they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it. 40 But as for you, turn around and set out toward the desert along the route to the Red Sea."

In this passage, Moses is reminding the people of Israel of their rebellion against God. Remember the twelve men that Moses sent into the promised land to scope it out? Ten came back with a bad report while two, Joshua and Caleb, came back saying, and this was in line with God's will, that it was ripe for the taking. The people chose to disobey God's command to go in and take the land, so God punished them by forcing them to wander the desert for forty more years.

No adults, except Joshua and Caleb because they "followed the Lord wholeheartedly," would be allowed to enter the promised land. However, God said that the innocent children, those "who do not yet know good from bad" would be allowed to enter the promised land. Note that these are the children of rebellious parents, those who were children when their parents chose not to obey God by going in to possess the promised land when God told them to.

It is my belief that, even today in the age of grace, that this is how God will deal with the innocent children. God does not change. If he allowed the innocent children to inherit the promise back then, I believe he will do the same today.