Where did Whales come from?

Job 33:6

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The point he is making has nothing to do with there being fossils of all the different types of dogs.

The point is that if you took skeletons from all the breeds of dogs and lined them up You could state that they were proof of the Saint Bernard, Alaskan Malamute, Grey Hound and Grand Pyrenees dogs all evolved from a Chihuahua......

And the response I made above is that such a succession of dogs would not be comparable to the larger fossil succession found in the earth that exists as a sequence through time.
 
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Job 33:6

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"This is absolutely taken into consideration. For example, take the comparison of torosaurus and triceratops. Currently, people are unsure of if the two are the same species (maybe ones male and the others female? Maybe one is old while the other young?) or if theyre different.

The difference though between torosaurus and triceratops and say...a fish and a mammal, is that the fossil succession...

well firstly, when you find a fossil, you cant just stick it anywhere you like in a succession. Because if you do that, people are going to come after you (true story, it happens). Your fossil succession is truly grounded in a geologic succession. It is the geology that defines the sequence. And anyone here is free to challenge that if they would like to, I am here to speak on that as well if people want to.

But anyway...

Beyond being grounded in geology (which isn't the case with dogs), the fossil succession spans a far greater morphological span, than anything seen in dogs. The fossil succession encompasses everything from worms, all the way to complex mammals and birds. Dogs, if they were to all be buried and fossilized, would only span...dogs. Big dogs, little dogs. A dog can only be bred so differently from a previous dog, before it becomes a non dog. The fossil succession spans genus and order and family etc. It spans great morphological changes that are far greater than anything seen in dogs. This is because dogs have only been bred for a handful of generations. Whereas complex life on earth has been "bred" for hundreds of millions of years.

Sorry for repeating myself in that last paragraph, just trying to be clear."
 
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Aman777

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That kind of contradicts this"

John 1:3New International Version (NIV)
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

1. I don't use altered versions of Scripture. I use the KJV.
2. I posted that God (The Trinity) created every living creature that moveth from WATER, on the 5th Day Gen 1:21.
3. Jesus IS a part of the Trinity. The Trinity is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit

I believe Jesus made the "common ancestors" or His kind. Everything Lord God/Jesus made was temporary, like Adam whom He formed from the dust. We MUST be "created" by the Trinity in order to be made Eternal. God bless you
 
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SkyWriting

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Did Whales come from land creatures or did they come from water creatures?

From this land:

wales-com-map-01-all.jpg
 
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Aman777

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From this land:

wales-com-map-01-all.jpg

LOL. Actually, all life came forth from WATER as Scientists learned last year. God told us the SAME thing in Genesis 1:21. Science and History AGREE. We have found God's Truth which changes NOT. In the last days, God is going to pour out His Spirit of Truth upon ALL flesh Act 2:17 through the discoveries of Science. Otherwise, atheists agnostics and phonies will not believe. Amen?
 
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SkyWriting

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LOL. Actually, all life came forth from WATER as Scientists learned last year. God told us the SAME thing in Genesis 1:21. Science and History AGREE. We have found God's Truth which changes NOT. In the last days, God is going to pour out His Spirit of Truth upon ALL flesh Act 2:17 through the discoveries of Science. Otherwise, atheists agnostics and phonies will not believe. Amen?

Science has the opposite effect of Faith. It calls on people to
trust only what they can see and ignore the Spirit that calls
on them to to treat others well only for it's own sake, not for
financial gain. All that science can offer about God is already
here with no further research needed.

19 For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

Rest assured that if scientists found Heaven in orbit around the earth,
there would still be no new converts. But regarding scripture, Science
can produce "Fun Facts" for believers now and then:

Scientists Discover The Oldest, Largest Body Of Water In Existence–
 
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Aman777

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Science has the opposite effect of Faith. It calls on people to
trust only what they can see and ignore the Spirit that calls
on them to to treat others well only for it's own sake, not for
financial gain. All that science can offer about God is already
here with no further research needed.

Amen, IF we were living 3,000 years ago, but God told us He was going to pour out His Spirit upon ALL flesh in the last days before Jesus returns. Joe 2:28 Act 2:17

Can you tell us HOW God is going to pour out His Spirit of Truth upon atheists, agnostics, and scientists? I didn't know either until last year when Science discovered that all life came from WATER. www.smithsonianmag.com/.../behold-luca-last-universal-common-ancestor-life-earth-...

Then I remembered that God told us 3k years ago that "every living creature that moveth" was created and brought forth from WATER. Gen 1:21 At first, science worshipers/proclaimers resisted, then went silent since NO ancient man could have known and correctly wrote Gen 1:21. It's testable proof of God and also proof that we are currently alive in the last days of this Earth when the discoveries of Science will confirm what God told us in Genesis chapter 1. God Bless you
 
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omega2xx

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From what I've read on the subject, modern day whales evolved from a terrestrial animal around 50 million years ago.

The evolutionists explanation of whale evolution is one of their most absurd and non-scientific guesses for the origin of whales.

First, there is no reason or need for a dog-like land animal doing very well on land to enter a more hostile environment and become a sea creature. That shoots sown a evo staple---natural selection.

Second, there is no genetic way a leg can become fin or a nose become a blowhole.
 
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omega2xx

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Amen, IF we were living 3,000 years ago, but God told us He was going to pour out His Spirit upon ALL flesh in the last days before Jesus returns. Joe 2:28 Act 2:17

Can you tell us HOW God is going to pour out His Spirit of Truth upon atheists, agnostics, and scientists? I didn't know either until last year when Science discovered that all life came from WATER. www.smithsonianmag.com/.../behold-luca-last-universal-common-ancestor-life-earth-...

Then I remembered that God told us 3k years ago that "every living creature that moveth" was created and brought forth from WATER. Gen 1:21 At first, science worshipers/proclaimers resisted, then went silent since NO ancient man could have known and correctly wrote Gen 1:21. It's testable proof of God and also proof that we are currently alive in the last days of this Earth when the discoveries of Science will confirm what God told us in Genesis chapter 1. God Bless you

Gen 1:21 doers not say every living creature was created and brought forth from water.

Did these brilliant scientist explain the origin of the water and how a substance that does not have all of the element need for life, prdoduce life?
 
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omega2xx

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AS both a Christian and a scientist I find your statement to be both ill informed and rather insulting.

They are not insulting unless you can offer some scientific evidence for something the TOE preaches, and you can't. Now prove me wrong.

I will make it easy for you. Post the evidence for "natural selection," a standard doctrine of evolution. Fell free to select another doctrine of Darwin if that one proves to hard for you.
 
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omega2xx

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Whales, were historically land dwelling animals. Many people have difficulty distinguishing them from fish. Their morphological differences come from the differences in their evolutionary history, and the difference in how they came to be sea dwelling.

That is laughable and void of any scientific evidence. To preach that a dog-like land animal surviving on land needed to become a sea creature is one of evolution's most absurd guesses. However it is necessary or the TOE is exposed as the unscientific fraud it is.

Maye you can explain, genetically of course, how a furry leg can become a scaly fin and how something in the front of the animal, its nose, can move back and become a blowhole.

Their morphological differences come from how they were created, not from evolution.
 
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Job 33:6

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First, there is no reason or need for a dog-like land animal doing very well on land to enter a more hostile environment and become a sea creature. That shoots sown a evo staple---natural selection.

Second, there is no genetic way a leg can become fin

Whales actually are very successful in the ocean. It isn't "more hostile" to them. As a matter of fact, it is mankind, land creatures, that are really the only predator over whales today.

And, from a morphological stance, the whale fin really isnt a whole lot different than any other 5 digit mammalian hand or foot.

hand1.gif
image002.gif

http://www.otago.ac.nz/geology/otago123425.jpg
 
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omega2xx

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As far as I've seen with my own eyes, fact. I've studied geology for over a decade. I've seen countless fossils, still in their respective rock. I've studied countless rock formations, I've worked with many independent researchers of multiple fields. And it all points toward the fossil succession being fact.

I actually have family and close friends who either have, or still doubt the existence of things like the fossil succession. Typically though they don't go out of their way to study rocks (most people don't care much about rocks), and just couldn't know what's out there.

Textbooks can only show so much in their depictions and can only explain so much in the confines of their bindings. The internet too is limited, in that, you cant study rocks over the internet. Its like taking an online class for something related to the outdoors. It really just doesn't do it justice.

So, I am not mad at them or anything like that. For people coming from a theological background, and people coming from the church, the fossil succession and more broadly, the theory of evolution is a pretty hot topic that gets people fueled up. And it is no surprise to me that there is that friction and opposition from within the church.

But if I were to guess. If more people did go out and were to invest in a sledge hammer, a couple rock hammers, a bottle of water and a peanut butter sandwich...

More people would, without a doubt, accept the existence of the fossil succession. Maybe not everyone but surely most would. I couldn't imagine the conflict would go on long before people started looking at Gods creation in new ways.


2 of your best known fossil experts, Gould and Mayr, reject fossil succession.

Here is a statement from Mayr: "Wherever we look at the living biota...discontinuities are overwhelmingly frequent...The discontinuities arr even more striking in the fossil record. New species usually appear in the fossil record suddenly not connected by a series of intermediates."

Gould says basically the same thing.

Gould also says, "I regard the failure to find a clear record in life's history as the most puzzling fact of the fossil record...we have sought to impose a pattern that we hoped to find on a world that does not really display it."
 
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omega2xx

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Whales actually are very successful in the ocean. It isn't "more hostile" to them. As a matter of fact, it is mankind, land creatures, that are really the only predator over whales today.


Of course the sea is not hostile for a whale, that is their natural environment, but it would be very hostile to a land animal, especially as it it transforming.

And, from a morphological stance, the whale fin really isnt a whole lot different than any other 5 digit mammalian hand or foot.

hand1.gif
image002.gif

http://www.otago.ac.nz/geology/otago123425.jpg[/QUOTE]

Pictures of similar characteristics are not evidence. You must explain how it is possible genetically. That you can't do.
 
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Job 33:6

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2 of your best known fossil experts, Gould and Mayr, reject fossil succession.

Here is a statement from Mayr: "Wherever we look at the living biota...discontinuities are overwhelmingly frequent...The discontinuities arr even more striking in the fossil record. New species usually appear in the fossil record suddenly not connected by a series of intermediates."

Gould says basically the same thing.

Gould also says, "I regard the failure to find a clear record in life's history as the most puzzling fact of the fossil record...we have sought to impose a pattern that we hoped to find on a world that does not really display it."

Have you actually read any of Goulds books or publications? He very much supports common descent as identified by the fossil succession.

I have a few of his books and, his publications are readily available online. Anyone who has actually read his books knows that he is utterly infatuated with the fossil succession, and is goes out of his way in his own books, to talk about how people misconstrue and take his words out of context.
 
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Job 33:6

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Of course the sea is not hostile for a whale, that is their natural environment, but it would be very hostile to a land animal, especially as it it transforming.

And, from a morphological stance, the whale fin really isnt a whole lot different than any other 5 digit mammalian hand or foot.

hand1.gif
image002.gif

http://www.otago.ac.nz/geology/otago123425.jpg

You proposed that the sea was hostile, yet as we can see, clearly it is not so hostile, as the animal that moved to sea, was successful and came to dominate the sea as the largest sea mammal to ever live on the face of the earth.

You cant say "oh its hostile" when it is purely a successful venture for the organism.

If the organism went extinct, then you could propose that the sea was hostile to it. But, clearly this was not the case.

What exactly do you think is hostile about the sea? Sharks?
 
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Job 33:6

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Of course the sea is not hostile for a whale, that is their natural environment, but it would be very hostile to a land animal, especially as it it transforming.

And, from a morphological stance, the whale fin really isnt a whole lot different than any other 5 digit mammalian hand or foot.

hand1.gif
image002.gif

http://www.otago.ac.nz/geology/otago123425.jpg


For that, i could, but id rather let the biologists here make a joke of you.
 
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