Where did the light come from?

[Lacmeh]

There is no way, that a planet "floats around" on its own.
There is the small matter of gravity. Even die hard science disbelievers can observe the daily effects of it. Therefore nothing "floats around" on its own. It is a matter of gravity, which objects float around which objects.

And the forming of earth took not a couple of day, more like a couple of millions of years.

 

[DocBrown]

Originally posted by Lacmeh
Nice quotes, Julie, those quotes relate to the thread exactly how?

If God created only signs of light, not emitters of light and humans create emitters of light, what does that make humans?

Why is it so hard to accept, that the light on earth comes mostly from the sun (the light reaching the earth from the stars is pretty negleglible). After all it is observable, that the light radiates out from the sun. As well as the other bunch of electromagnetic waves.

Please read Julie's last quote from the Bible. Perhaps you missed the part that says "no need of the SUN". This isn't a "sign" of light it is light itself. Perhaps the designer of physics (God) designed light (energy) that came from sources we as of yet do not know of. Science is finding new things all the time, if not then we would have no need of science. Sometimes we have to think outside of the box. I mean no disrespect I'm only trying to make a point here.

Doc

 

 

 

[Sinai]

Originally posted by strathyboy
Genesis 1:3 says that God created light. But not until verse 14 does God create the sun, the moon, or the stars.
I realize that this has probably been discussed in here before, but I couldn't find a thread specifically about it. Any thoughts?

Verses 3 and 4 tell us that God is responsible for light, that He made light, that God saw the light (and that it was good), and then "God separated between the light and the darkness." One of the reasons I find that phrase especially interesting is that it almost exactly parallels modern scientific thought about what happened after the Big Bang.

Both the Talmud and modern cosmology indicate that the first light (verse 3) was of a nature so powerful that it would not have been visible by humans (had there been any around to observe it). Although science has theorized that the "light" of that early period was in the energy range of gamma rays, as the thermal energy of the photons fell to about 3000 degrees Kelvin, electrons could bind in stable orbits around hydrogen and helium nuclei, and light separated from matter and emerged from the darkness of the universe. Thus, at that moment the light became visible.

It might be noted that this is also consistent with Isaiah 45:7, which says, "I [God] form light and create darkness." The Hebrew hoshek used in Isaiah 45:7 for "darkness" is a created--possibly the created--substance of the universe.

Thus, light would have preceded our sun by billions of years, and the Bible would be correct in placing the separation of light and darkness as having occurred on yom one, while the sun did not become visible from the Earth until the fourth yom.

 

[Lacmeh]

I was more thinking in terms, where the light comes from, that makes life possible on earth nowadays and the time since the forming of earth.
Well how and who or what created or where the universe comes from and with that the first light, well that is an entire different matter. There are a lot of models about the cause of the universe and as far as I know, no one theroy can really resolve this.

 

[DocBrown]

Originally posted by Sinai


Verses 3 and 4 tell us that God is responsible for light, that He made light, that God saw the light (and that it was good), and then "God separated between the light and the darkness." One of the reasons I find that phrase especially interesting is that it almost exactly parallels modern scientific thought about what happened after the Big Bang.

Both the Talmud and modern cosmology indicate that the first light (verse 3) was of a nature so powerful that it would not have been visible by humans (had there been any around to observe it). Although science has theorized that the "light" of that early period was in the energy range of gamma rays, as the thermal energy of the photons fell to about 3000 degrees Kelvin, electrons could bind in stable orbits around hydrogen and helium nuclei, and light separated from matter and emerged from the darkness of the universe. Thus, at that moment the light became visible.

It might be noted that this is also consistent with Isaiah 45:7, which says, "I [God] form light and create darkness." The Hebrew hoshek used in Isaiah 45:7 for "darkness" is a created--possibly the created--substance of the universe.

Thus, light would have preceded our sun by billions of years, and the Bible would be correct in placing the separation of light and darkness as having occurred on yom one, while the sun did not become visible from the Earth until the fourth yom.

Very very good. Sound like you've really done some research. I'd love to get more on your thoughts.

Doc

 

 

 

[alexgb00]

Originally posted by Lacmeh
If God is the light, then he must be in every lightbulb...

Friend, people don't think of light as a substance, really. It can't be contained or carried from place to place. I agree with what Doc and Lanakila said. God isn't just physical light, but He works in phenomenons which we will never understand.

God bless you, Lacmeh.

 

[alexgb00]

Originally posted by LiveFreeOrDie
Because otherwise it becomes darn near impossible to explain why the Earth's orbit is so nearly circular and coplanar with the other planets.

It's harder still to believe that the big bang could set the astral bodies in such precise order. This isn't an accident. God created the earth before the other bodies.

 

[Morat]

  The Big Bang didn't. Gravity did. What's so amazing about it?

   Tha the orbits are elliptical? That planets are round? That angular moment is conserved?

 

 

[alexgb00]

Originally posted by Morat
The Big Bang didn't. Gravity did. What's so amazing about it?

Whatever you say. Your theories change all the time. But you have to be blind to think that the universe isn't functioning with perfect order.

ThaT the orbits are elliptical? That planets are round? That angular moment is conserved?

A spacecraft can orbit the earth for several years, perhaps even a couple decades, before its orbit becomes too irregular. The longest that a man-made craft has stayed in orbit was almost 16 years. For a good orbit, you need a precise speed in a direction for a given distance from the object that you're orbiting, mass also being a factor (more massive objects attract more strongly).

The moon has been in earth for at least 6000 years, we both agree. Of course, its path is slowly changing. The moon is so carefully positioned. How can anybody ever think that this is the result of chance, that this isn't intelligent design? I guess you can, if you're as stubborn as Morat.

What i've learned about you, sir, is that you don't like conversation about science. You drag your heels on such conversations. Too bad. People like you are a stumbling block to science.


 

 

[alexgb00]

Originally posted by Morat
That angular moment is conserved?

MomentUM.

 

[Caffeine Socialism]

Wow, alex, your correction of a typo whose meaning can easily be discerned makes you sound so much more important and authoritative.

 

[Sinai]

Originally posted by Sinai:

Verses 3 and 4 tell us that God is responsible for light, that He made light, that God saw the light (and that it was good), and then "God separated between the light and the darkness." One of the reasons I find that phrase especially interesting is that it almost exactly parallels modern scientific thought about what happened after the Big Bang.

Both the Talmud and modern cosmology indicate that the first light (verse 3) was of a nature so powerful that it would not have been visible by humans (had there been any around to observe it). Although science has theorized that the "light" of that early period was in the energy range of gamma rays, as the thermal energy of the photons fell to about 3000 degrees Kelvin, electrons could bind in stable orbits around hydrogen and helium nuclei, and light separated from matter and emerged from the darkness of the universe. Thus, at that moment the light became visible.

It might be noted that this is also consistent with Isaiah 45:7, which says, "I [God] form light and create darkness." The Hebrew hoshek used in Isaiah 45:7 for "darkness" is a created--possibly the created--substance of the universe.

Thus, light would have preceded our sun by billions of years, and the Bible would be correct in placing the separation of light and darkness as having occurred on yom one, while the sun did not become visible from the Earth until the fourth yom.

Originally posted by DocBrown

Very very good. Sound like you've really done some research. I'd love to get more on your thoughts.

Doc
 
 

Thanks, Doc. I appreciate your kind words. But I'm not sure I understand which thoughts you were referring to.....

 

[DocBrown]

Originally posted by Sinai




Thanks, Doc. I appreciate your kind words. But I'm not sure I understand which thoughts you were referring to.....

Ok let me try again to explain myself. Sometimes I have a problem being understood.

I'm wondering if this is your theory and what research or study you have done to arrive at this conclusion. You see I'm a new Christian and when I ready parts of the Bible it seems more like a fairy tale than factual. I want to beleive but frankly I'm having problems as I have a scientific/inquiring mind and I need facts. You seem to have hit on something that may answer a lot of my questions.

I know I'm off topic here and this is more of a personal note so I'll back off for now.

Doc

 

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by strathyboy
Genesis 1:3 says that God created light. But not until verse 14 does God create the sun, the moon, or the stars.

Why is it so difficult to believe that G~d could create light, and then later create the sun and stars -- which also give off light?

Besides, what's so important about having the sun for light? It's only around during the day, and that's when it's already light out, anyway.

(Corrolary argument: If you plan a space flight to the sun, go there at night when it's not so hot.)

 

[Sinai]

Originally posted by DocBrown

I'm wondering if this is your theory and what research or study you have done to arrive at this conclusion. You see I'm a new Christian and when I ready parts of the Bible it seems more like a fairy tale than factual. I want to beleive but frankly I'm having problems as I have a scientific/inquiring mind and I need facts. You seem to have hit on something that may answer a lot of my questions.

Yes, this is what I personally think is the most likely meaning of those scriptures, and it is consistent with the findings of modern science. And yes, it is based on readings and research into the topic. If you wish to consult some of the same sources I have relied on, I suggest you at least start with the following:

The Complete Biblical Library [the volumes dealing with Genesis and Isaiah]

Nahmanides, Commentary on the Torah. Get the English translation by Chavel (much easier to read than the Hebrew!)

Genesis Rabbah, A commentary on the Book of Genesis.

Gerald L. Schroeder, The Science of God; Genesis and the Big Bang

Guth and Steinhardt, "The Inflationary Universe" (Scientific American, May, 1984)

Hope that helps.

Sinai

 

[sbbqb7n16]

Originally posted by Lacmeh
There is no way, that a planet "floats around" on its own.
There is the small matter of gravity. Even die hard science disbelievers can observe the daily effects of it. Therefore nothing "floats around" on its own. It is a matter of gravity, which objects float around which objects.

And the forming of earth took not a couple of day, more like a couple of millions of years.

So what you mean for me to believe is that the planets according to the Big Bang theory were instantly placed in perfect path around a star and already moving and circulating around it? Is it impossible for you to believe that initially the earth didn't revolve around the sun? Maybe it was flying through space (kinda like an asteroid or comet does) then came close enough to the sun and was pulled by gravity into it's current orbit. For example... a basketball player shoots a ball at a hoop... the ball moves forward then hits the rim and begins to spin around it because it hit at the right angle.. kinda like that. The earth initially moved on it's own, then met up with the sun and was pulled into orbit by the sun's gravity. I think it's perfectly possible for a planet to move on it's own.. althougth it's not "called" a planet while it is... 

How else do you propose the earth began to revolve around the sun? It just kinda came that way? On a side note.. the paths of the planets and Asteroid belt seem a bit too planned for the randomness of just up and happening... it would require more than 7 planetary bodies moving through space to all be caught in a gravitational circle by the same star and each gather their own moons and all... the only one capable of life just happens to only have one that always faces it the same way... and that all the asteroids in the asteroid belt just kinda came that way. It all seems too planned...

 

[strathyboy]

Originally posted by npetreley


Why is it so difficult to believe that G~d could create light, and then later create the sun and stars -- which also give off light?

Besides, what's so important about having the sun for light? It's only around during the day, and that's when it's already light out, anyway.

(Corrolary argument: If you plan a space flight to the sun, go there at night when it's not so hot.)

The reason I ask this is not because I thought God couldn't create the light, or anything like that. The problem is that the light comes and goes for the next 3 days after God creates it, giving us evening, night, and day again. Why would the light come and go and then come again?

 

[Lacmeh]

Lol, fly to the sun at night.
I guess, nobody ever told you, that the sun is a huge fusion reactor busy 24/7. Even at night the energy, that the sun emits hits earth. otherwise we would have a Marsian night with approx. -100 degree Celsius...
The forming of our solar system happened not with the sun having to force moving objects into orbits. First teh earth and other planets were only gas balls, which grew more and more compact.
The only reason, we think the earth is so special is, that we can´t observe other planets. We can only see other suns, but no planets, since planets don´t give light to observe.
There is no way, that the sun moved around earth.
Just put a 25 kilogram magnet down on the ground, then a 50 gram magnet. Which magnet moves to which? The same goes for planets and suns. Whatever has more mass, that is the greater gravitational force. And objects with the greater force move not to objects with the smaler force. It is the other way around

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Lacmeh
Just put a 25 kilogram magnet down on the ground, then a 50 gram magnet. Which magnet moves to which? The same goes for planets and suns.

Really? Planets smash into the sun due to magnetic attraction?

 

[Julie]

Originally posted by Julie
Genesis 1:3
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

 

2 Corinthians 4:6
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

 

1 John 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

 

Revelation 21:23
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

 

Revelation 22:5
And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

 

"Nice quotes, Julie,"

Thank You!, Julie