Where did the Amplified find this part of this verse?

[Hisgirl]

9He who is loose and slack in his work is brother to him who is a destroyer and [a]he who does not use his endeavors to heal himself is brother to him who commits suicide. Proverbs 18:9


The Amplified version shows this verse like the above. However, every other translation I can find shows it as

Proverbs 18:9
Parallel Translations
Concordance Entries Brother Destroyer Destroys Destruction Indolent Makes Master Mind Remiss Slack Slothful Waster

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NASB: He also who is slack in his work Is brother to him who destroys. (NASB ©1995)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GWT: Whoever is lazy in his work is related to a vandal. (GOD'S WORD®)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KJV: He also that is slothful in his work is brother to him that is a great waster.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASV: He also that is slack in his work Is brother to him that is a destroyer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BBE: He who does not give his mind to his work is brother to him who makes destruction.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DBY: He also who is indolent in his work is brother of the destroyer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JPS: Even one that is slack in his work is brother to him that is a destroyer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WBS: He also that is slothful in his work is brother to him that is a great waster.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WEB: One who is slack in his work is brother to him who is a master of destruction.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YLT: He also that is remiss in his work, A brother he [is] to a destroyer.



The footnote in the Amplified says :

Proverbs 18:9 This verse so reads in The Septuagint (Greek translation of the Old Testament). Its statement squarely addresses the problem of whether one has a moral right to neglect his body by "letting nature take its unhindered course" in illness.

But I pulled up the Interlenear Scipture Analyzer and it doesn't say that at all.. See the link below...


http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterli...OTpdf/pro18.pdf


I'm confuuuused....! I love the amplified, but where did it find that part of the verse?
http://z14.invisionfree.com/SpiritFilled_CF_chat/index.php?showtopic=1396

 

[stone]

the lxx is filled with errors, probably just a translation of a bad translation, bound to happen with writeings like the lxx

 

[thereselittleflower]

The LXX, the Septuagint, was the Old Testament scripture used by Jesus and the Apostles, as the vast majority of the quotes from the Old Testament are not from the Hebrew version of the OT, but from the GREEK Septuagint version . .

Also, it is the GREEK Septuagint scriptures that very clearly say "Behold a VIRGIN shall conceive and bear a son"

The Hewbrew version (that exists today) is not so clear on the matter of virginity.


To say that the Greek Septuagint is full of errors when one does not have the original Hebrew scriptures it was translated from to compare it to (it was translated 200-300 years before Christ and was hailed as a divinely inspired translation among the Jews) doesn't make any sense really. There is no way to prove such a claim. You have to have the originals that they were translated from and we don't have them

That Jesus and the Apostles and writers of the NT used and quoted from the Septuagint the vast majority of the time, is very striking and is strong evidence to stand against a claim that it is somehow "full of error".

There is a great site on the net about the Septuagint that demonstrates very vividly what I just said. If I can find it, I will post it.

To the OP, you will not find the Septuagint scriptures in your Greek interlinear . . the Greek interlinear is the New Testament only . . .

.

 

[thereselittleflower]

The LXX, the Septuagint, was the Old Testament scripture used by Jesus and the Apostles, as the vast majority of the quotes from the Old Testament are not from the Hebrew version of the OT, but from the GREEK Septuagint version . .

Also, it is the GREEK Septuagint scriptures that very clearly say "Behold a VIRGIN shall conceive and bear a son"

The Hewbrew version (that exists today) is not so clear on the matter of virginity, and in fact is one of the reasons that the small group of rabbis know as the Council of Jamnia tried to get rid of the Septuagint around the turn of the 1st century AD . . .

What many do not understand is that the vast majority of Jews, from well before Christ's birth, did not speak or read Hebrew, but Greek. And so the need for a Greek translation of the scripture was born and was accomplished hundreds of years before Christ was born.

This Greek version was used predominately by the Jews and continued to be during the time of Jesus. That is why Jesus and the Apostles and writers used this translation predominately. The reasons the rabbis, almost 100 years later, tried to stop the use of the Septuagint were primarily two fold. To protect the Jewish race from being exterminated by the Romans, and to prevent the Jews from converting to Christianity and leaving the Jewish faith.

Historically, Jewish rebels had so ticked off the Roman government, that it was feared they would soon exterminate the Jews. They had seen the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem and the seige of Jerusalem which resulted in its inhabitants being trapped in the city for a year or more, being forced into starvation and ultimately canabalism before they died . . mothers even eeating their own children. In the following decades there were more attacks by Jewish rebels, which led to more reprisals by the Roman Governement.

What does this have to do with the Septuagint? Well, it contains the books of Maccabees (among other books that are not longer in Protestant bibles, but are still in Catholic and Orthodox bibles), which clearly show God empowring Jews to resist and rise up against apostate ruler and government. Remember, these books were SCRIPTURE to the Jews.

These rabbis realized that to stop this rebel movement, they had to remove scriptural foundation for it, and so they sought to remove the books of Maccabees .. . of course, they had to make it sound reasonable, and so they invented "rules" for doing so, which ended up removing the other books that are no longer in your Old Testament.

The other issue was one of Christian proseletyzing, and the verse in Isaiah that divinitively refers to Mary as the "virgin" was one that was very strongly used by Chrsitians in their dealings with Jews. Also, the book of Wisdom (also no longer in Protesatant bibles) has one of the most incredible prophecies of Christ's passion (his ordeal leading to and including the cross) that exist:

Wis 2:1 For the ungodly said, reasoning with themselves, but not aright, Our life is short and tedious, and in the death of a man there is no remedy: neither was there any man known to have returned from the grave.
Wis 2:2 For we are born at all adventure: and we shall be hereafter as though we had never been: for the breath in our nostrils is as smoke, and a little spark in the moving of our heart:
Wis 2:3 Which being extinguished, our body shall be turned into ashes, and our spirit shall vanish as the soft air,
Wis 2:4 And our name shall be forgotten in time, and no man shall have our works in remembrance, and our life shall pass away as the trace of a cloud, and shall be dispersed as a mist, that is driven away with the beams of the sun, and overcome with the heat thereof.
Wis 2:5 For our time is a very shadow that passeth away; and after our end there is no returning: for it is fast sealed, so that no man cometh again.
Wis 2:6 Come on therefore, let us enjoy the good things that are present: and let us speedily use the creatures like as in youth.
Wis 2:7 Let us fill ourselves with costly wine and ointments: and let no flower of the spring pass by us:
Wis 2:8 Let us crown ourselves with rosebuds, before they be withered:
Wis 2:9 Let none of us go without his part of our voluptuousness: let us leave tokens of our joyfulness in every place: for this is our portion, and our lot is this.
Wis 2:10 Let us oppress the poor righteous man, let us not spare the widow, nor reverence the ancient gray hairs of the aged.
Wis 2:11 Let our strength be the law of justice: for that which is feeble is found to be nothing worth.
Wis 2:12 Therefore let us lie in wait for the righteous; because he is not for our turn, and he is clean contrary to our doings: he upbraideth us with our offending the law, and objecteth to our infamy the transgressings of our education.
Wis 2:13 He professeth to have the knowledge of God: and he calleth himself the child of the Lord.
Wis 2:14 He was made to reprove our thoughts.
Wis 2:15 He is grievous unto us even to behold: for his life is not like other men's, his ways are of another fashion.
Wis 2:16 We are esteemed of him as counterfeits: he abstaineth from our ways as from filthiness: he pronounceth the end of the just to be blessed, and maketh his boast that God is his father.
Wis 2:17 Let us see if his words be true: and let us prove what shall happen in the end of him.
Wis 2:18 For if the just man be the son of God, he will help him, and deliver him from the hand of his enemies.
Wis 2:19 Let us examine him with despitefulness and torture, that we may know his meekness, and prove his patience.
Wis 2:20 Let us condemn him with a shameful death: for by his own saying he shall be respected.
Wis 2:21 Such things they did imagine, and were deceived: for their own wickedness hath blinded them.
Wis 2:22 As for the mysteries of God, they knew them not: neither hoped they for the wages of righteousness, nor discerned a reward for blameless souls.
Wis 2:23 For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity.
Wis 2:24 Nevertheless through envy of the devil came death into the world: and they that do hold of his side do find it​

Even though this handful of rabbis (there were few left after the destruction of the Temple, for the priesthood had been slaughtered) conveyned this "council" of Jamnia to accomplish this, its decisions were argued about for 500 years, and the Ethiopian Jews never paid any attention to it. . . They use the Septuagint to this day.

The Christians of the time paid no attention to it either, as because of the destruction of the Temple and the fall of Jerusalem, it was plain to Christians everywhere that God had removed all authority from the Jews and invested it with the Church. These rabbis had no authority to do anything in the eyes of the Christian Church. And so the Early Christians continued to use the Septuagint just as Jesus and the Apostles and writers of the NT did, and even canonized it along the New Testament writings.

The Septuagint is used by over 1.5 billion Christians today.




.

 

[stone]

Therese,

you never cease to amaze me. Isn't it believed by even the vatican that the lxx was written by 72 men, six from each of the 12 tribes, under the inspiration of the holy spirit?

The virgin birth thing, your reffering to Isaiah right? I believe the masoretic text are clear of the virgin birth.

 

[stone]

Bethulah and 'Almah
There are two important words in Hebrew that can be translated into English as "virgin": בתולה, bethulah, and עלמה, Genesis 24:43), but is never used in the Old Testament of anyone who was not a virgin; bethulah is accepted in modern Hebrew usage as the characteristic Hebrew word for virgin. However, it is qualified by a statement ‘neither had any man known her’ in Gen. 24:16, and is used of a widow in Joel 1:8. In the Ugaritic tablets, btlt was used of the goddess Anath who was a consort of Baal; and in other records, the Aramaic counterpart of betûlah is used of a married woman.

***

edit to add, *only half of what i copied and pasted appeared above, but it still reads to make sense and the point i was trying to make*

 

[stone]

here's more:

Judaism reads the verse in Isaiah 7:14 as:
"Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: behold, the young woman [ha-almah] shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanu-el". [1] Judaism affirms that [ha-almah] ("young woman") does not refer to a virgin and that had the Tanakh intended to refer to such, the specific Hebrew word for virgin [bethulah] would have been used. This view is often disputed by Christians (see below), and has been a point of contention between Jews and Christians since the formation of the modern Church. Jerome, in 383 CE, wrote in "Adversus Helvidium" that Helvidius misunderstood just this same point of confusion between the Greek and the Hebrew.


***

it may not be specific to a virgin, but the word used appears to have only been used to describe a virgin.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Therese,

you never cease to amaze me. Isn't it believed by even the vatican that the lxx was written by 72 men, six from each of the 12 tribes, under the inspiration of the holy spirit?

LOL! It was the Jews who believed that. It is part of the lengend surrounding the Jewish translatin of the Hebrew scriptures (which are no longer extant) into Greek, and why it was hailed by the Jews as inspired by God.

The legend has it that all 72 translators were divinely inspired in their translations and all translated separately in isolation from each other, and when they came together, their translations matched exactly.

There is always some truth in legends. Septuagint is from the number 70 . . it is called the book of the 70 for a reason . . .

The virgin birth thing, your reffering to Isaiah right? I believe the masoretic text are clear of the virgin birth.

Yes, I am referring to Isaiah. But the Masoratic text is not clear on it . . the word used in the Hebrew in the Masoratic Text means maiden, young woman and can refer to a virgin, but such an understanding is not mandated. It does not explicitly mean a virgin.

H5959
עלמה
‛almâh
al-maw'
Feminine of H5958; a lass (as veiled or private): - damsel, maid, virgin.
​

The Greek in the Septuagint, however does and explicitly refers to a virgin.



.

 

[thereselittleflower]

here's more:

Judaism reads the verse in Isaiah 7:14 as:
"Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: behold, the young woman [ha-almah] shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanu-el". [1] Judaism affirms that [ha-almah] ("young woman") does not refer to a virgin and that had the Tanakh intended to refer to such, the specific Hebrew word for virgin [bethulah] would have been used. This view is often disputed by Christians (see below), and has been a point of contention between Jews and Christians since the formation of the modern Church. Jerome, in 383 CE, wrote in "Adversus Helvidium" that Helvidius misunderstood just this same point of confusion between the Greek and the Hebrew.


***

it may not be specific to a virgin, but the word used appears to have only been used to describe a virgin.

Thank you for providing that. I want to draw your attention to something in it that helps to affirm what I said earlier:

Judaism reads the verse in Isaiah 7:14 as:

"Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: behold, the young woman [ha-almah] shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanu-el". [1]​

Judaism affirms that [ha-almah] ("young woman") does not refer to a virgin and that had the Tanakh intended to refer to such, the specific Hebrew word for virgin [bethulah] would have been used. This view is often disputed by Christians (see below), and has been a point of contention between Jews and Christians since the formation of the modern Church. Jerome, in 383 CE, wrote in "Adversus Helvidium" that Helvidius misunderstood just this same point of confusion between the Greek and the Hebrew.​

This is what I was saying. This point of contention has its foundations back in this act by these rabbis in Jamnia, it was that important.

.


.

 

[Yitzchak]

I miss the hebrew university that they had in the jewish section of the city where I used to live. I would go and research this verse if I was there.

Anyway. The view that the Septuagent is inspired is indeed a jewish belief. I am not sure whether the church picked up that belief or not.

 

[Yitzchak]

Have you ever tryed www.e-sword.org ? It has online translations of the bible for free. Perhaps it has the original greek for that verse there.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Here is a great source on the Septuagint and evidence of how it was predominately used by Jesus and the Apostles and writers aof the New Testament with charts and examples . . just a ton of information:

The Septuagint in the New Testament
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/7224/Rick/Septuagint/spexecsum.htm

He gives an unbiased review and his conclusions are interesting and unbiased.

He notes this:

The New Testament is a witness to the Church’s use of the Septuagint as sacred scripture in its earliest days.
​

.

 

[thereselittleflower]

esword is a great resource, but he doesn't have the septuagint itself that I can remember. I could be wrong, but I don't think so . . .


.

 

[Adammi]

Very interesting thread.

 

[stone]

LOL! It was the Jews who believed that. It is part of the lengend surrounding the Jewish translatin of the Hebrew scriptures (which are no longer extant) into Greek, and why it was hailed by the Jews as inspired by God.

the jews?!

but they would know better than any others that it was the levittes that were left to be scribes according to god.

I'll have to look into this again to see where i got this info crossed as far as this inspiration theory goes.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Here is a Jewish source showing the claim of inspiration started wtih the Jews .. The Jewish Enclycopedia - the article is about the Letter of ARISTEAS:

Contents of the Letter.

"By the advice of Demetrius Phalereus, chief librarian of Ptolemy Philadelphus, the king decided to include in his library a translation of the Jewish Lawbook. To secure the cooperation of the high priest Eleazar at Jerusalem, Aristeas advises him to purchase and set free the numerous Jews who had been sold into slavery after his father's campaign against them (312). He sends Andreas, a captain of his body-guard, and Aristeas, laden with rich presents, and entrusted with a letter, asking Eleazar to send him seventy-two elders to undertake the translation. The envoys see Jerusalem, inspect the Temple and the citadel, and admire the high priest and his assistants at their service in the sanctuary; they are instructed, moreover, by Eleazar in the deeper moral meaning of the dietary laws, and return, with the seventy-two elders, to Alexandria. The king receives the Jewish sages with distinction, and holds a seven-day banquet, at which he addresses searching questions to them daily, always receiving appropriate answers. The wisdom of their replies, though it seems to the modern reader rather trivial, arouses general astonishment. Three days after the feast, Demetrius conducts the sages to the island of Pharos, where in seventy-two days of joint labor they complete their work. Demetrius reads the translation aloud in a solemn assembly of the Jewish congregation; it is accepted and sanctioned by them, and any change therein officially forbidden. The king, to whom the translation is also read, admires the spirit of the Law-giver, and dismisses the translators with costly gifts."

.......

Influence of Aristeas.

The legend which forms the framework of the book has attained great importance in the Christian Church. However much the Jewish writer's fancy may have given itself play in its embellishment—as, for instance, in the quasi-legal style of the reports of the deliberations, and in the clumsy imitations of the accustomed forms of dinner-table philosophy—still the legend in its main features may easily have reached Aristeas through the channel of popular tradition.The threefold cooperation of king, highpriest, and Palestinian sages, and especially the solemn sanction of the Greek translation, have for their sole objects the legitimation of the version, and the obtaining for it of equal authority with the original text. Philo, who otherwise follows Aristeas,goes beyond him in attributing divine inspiration to the translators, and in making them by divine influence produce an identical translation, and in calling them prophets ("Vita Mosis," ii. 7). This exaggeration must be considered simply as a popular development of the legend, and Philo's regard in his exegesis for the translation as a holy text testifies to the general appreciation in which it was held. When the use of the Septuagint in the synagogue service speedily surrounded it with an atmosphere of sanctity, pious belief easily accommodated itself to a myth, the material and form of which closely resembled the familiar legend of the restoration of the holy books by Ezra under divine inspiration; a legend which is found for the first time in IV Esdras, but which is certainly far older. The Christian Church received the Septuagint from the Jews as a divine revelation . . .

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=1765&letter=A
​

 

[TheGloryisHere]

I don't know, but someone who doesnt' try to get healed, either by God or doctors is committing sucicide, so it's true. I don't read Greek, so I don't know where it came from.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

It looks like maybe that was just their translation of the verse. The first part is what all the others say, and the second part is what they think it means.

 

[TreeOfLife]

Nice junk. It edifies how?

 

[TheGloryisHere]

Thank you for providing that. I want to draw your attention to something in it that helps to affirm what I said earlier:

Judaism reads the verse in Isaiah 7:14 as:

"Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: behold, the young woman [ha-almah] shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanu-el". [1]​

Judaism affirms that [ha-almah] ("young woman") does not refer to a virgin and that had the Tanakh intended to refer to such, the specific Hebrew word for virgin [bethulah] would have been used. This view is often disputed by Christians (see below), and has been a point of contention between Jews and Christians since the formation of the modern Church. Jerome, in 383 CE, wrote in "Adversus Helvidium" that Helvidius misunderstood just this same point of confusion between the Greek and the Hebrew.​

This is what I was saying. This point of contention has its foundations back in this act by these rabbis in Jamnia, it was that important.

.


.

Well of course the Jews who don't believe Jesus is the Messiah would say that! But, she was a virgin, else Jesus would have our corrupt sin nature, and would have been disqualifed to die for our sins, in fact to become SIN. He had to be like Adam before SIN entered into the man race.