Where are the current ripples from Noah's Flood?

[sjastro]

Back in the fifties when I was in high school a buddy of mine hand made a mirror like that in anticipation of an historically close approach of Mars. There are cute optical ways of checking the accuracy of the mirror as well, no "advanced technology" required. We helped him put the tube and mount together and got a great image--all with hand tools.

Congratulations making a mirror is no mean feat, a few years ago I had to sue a telescope manufacturer for poor optical performance.
To cut a long story short, the manufacturer refused a refund because I had collimated the optics which is a standard procedure for any optical system involving primary and secondary mirrors.

The only optical system where the optics are fixed and should never be adjusted are refractors which leads to even more impressive comparisons between hand crafted and computer controlled/robotic manufacturing where for triplet apochromatic lenses requires precision manufacturing over eight surfaces.

 

[stevevw]

Congratulations making a mirror is no mean feat, a few years ago I had to sue a telescope manufacturer for poor optical performance.
To cut a long story short, the manufacturer refused a refund because I had collimated the optics which is a standard procedure for any optical system involving primary and secondary mirrors.

The only optical system where the optics are fixed and should never be adjusted are refractors which leads to even more impressive comparisons between hand crafted and computer controlled/robotic manufacturing where for triplet apochromatic lenses requires precision manufacturing over eight surfaces.

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So what are you saying. I am not denying the ability to make lens. I am saying this doesn't compare to the precision we see in the vases or statues. Its along several lines. No just the CAD level of precision but that its done in granite and in some cases even harder stone such as Corundum which is a 9 on the Moh scale.

There is no evidence for humans being able to achieve this without some aid from a guide of some sort and machining.

You may say I am not acknowledging human ability. But you are not acknowledging human limits based on primitive tools.

 

[BCP1928]

So what are you saying. I am not denying the ability to make lens. I am saying this doesn't compare to the precision we see in the vases or statues. Its along several lines. No just the CAD level of precision but that its done in granite and in some cases even harder stone such as Corundum which is a 9 on the Moh scale.

There is no evidence for humans being able to achieve this without some aid from a guide of some sort and machining.

You may say I am not acknowledging human ability. But you are not acknowledging human limits based on primitive tools.

Do you make that statement based on personal experience using hand tools?

 

[Astrid]

Do you make that statement based on personal experience using hand tools?

Some of our posters just say things.

 

[stevevw]

Do you make that statement based on personal experience using hand tools?

I don't make that statement. It is what the evidence shows. There is not evidence that these high precision and megalithic works were done with the primitive tools found. You don't need to be an expert. Just use your eyes and common sense. Look at the tools presented and the signatures in the rocks and stone and you can see that its a far stretch of the imagination.

Look at the simple example given. We have a 20 foot sled and hemp rope in the records that is said to be responsible for moving 1,000 ton granite blocks up to 100 miles across land and hills. You don't need to be an expert to see that this is impossible wityh the tools presented in the records.

That is the same for other works. The tools don't pass the pub test. But that doesn't mean the tools found were useless. The thing is the tools do match the signatures in the rocks for later works when we find most of these tool. But they don't match the earlier works. Its like there were two levels of industry going on with different signatures.

But I don't want to go down this path anymore. I mean would you even acknowledge that these earlier works are of an unusually high level like there was a burst of artistic expression lets say compared to other periods later. Would you even admit that.

 

[BCP1928]

I don't make that statement. It is what the evidence shows. There is not evidence that these high precision and megalithic works were done with the primitive tools found. You don't need to be an expert. Just use your eyes and common sense. Look at the tools presented and the signatures in the rocks and stone and you can see that its a far stretch of the imagination.

Look at the simple example given. We have a 20 foot sled and hemp rope in the records that is said to be responsible for moving 1,000 ton granite blocks up to 100 miles across land and hills. You don't need to be an expert to see that this is impossible wityh the tools presented in the records.

That is the same for other works. The tools don't pass the pub test. But that doesn't mean the tools found were useless. The thing is the tools do match the signatures in the rocks for later works when we find most of these tool. But they don't match the earlier works. Its like there were two levels of industry going on with different signatures.

So those of us who are capable of producing high degrees of precision with hand tools are just lying to you?

BTW, I'm old enough to have been around the trade when computer controlled machine tools were came out. They were pioneered by the General Electric Company, which had a contract with the Air Force to make turbojet engines. Turbojet engines have many blades which have a complex shape and have to be produced to a high degree of precision. It is possible to make these blades by hand or with manual machine tools to any desired degree of precision. Computer controlled machine tools were introduced to make these blades faster, thus cheaper--not more precise.

 

[stevevw]

So those of us who are capable of producing high degrees of precision with hand tools are just lying to you?

It all depends on what you regard a high degree of precision as. I am not saying that humans are capable of great things. But we do draw lines and we do have limitations. That is why I think investigating the works is so important as it will help determine this.

But lets say we have a precision jet engine part which is done on high tech computerised machines. Its 3D and works to a complete math and geometry. I don't think a human is capable of replicating this by hand tools. Its just on another level.

We can even track the evolution of precision. We only started to get to this level through the industrial age. Even then it was still not precise but it gradually became more precise.

So even if we say that these primitive people somehow hand made these works which I don't think they did with the tools they had they are still producing modern day levels of works which should still be regarded as highly advanced. That somehow they could mimick modern tech with ancient tools would in some ways be more astonishing than if they had some machine that was lost to do it.

BTW, I'm old enough to have been around the trade when computer controlled machine tools were came out. They were pioneered by the General Electric Company, which had a contract with the Air Force to make turbojet engines. Turbojet engines have many blades which have a complex shape and have to be produced to a high degree of precision. It is possible to make these blades by hand or with manual machine tools to any desired degree of precision. Computer controlled machine tools were introduced to make these blades faster, thus cheaper--not more precise.

Ok. Well I don't know. We need more evidence than just andedotal. If you look at how these vases for example have complex math and geometry in them its not something that can be created by feel or sight.

Its not so much that you can create one piece with a couple of reference points. These vases in some places have around 70,000 rewference points that align. If you were to under or over rub or grind one tiny part of the vase you throwing the rest out and that applies to every reference point on the vase.

There comes a point where you have to acknowledge human limitations. Its like the mega blocks. To say 1,000s of primitive people with small sleds and hemp rope somehow moved these blocks when we have problems today with modern machine.

You have to say no this is beyond what they can do. There must have been something else to this story. But you don;t just assume oh well the experts say it was with a sled, hemp rope and manpower so it must be true.

But it doesn't matter. Lets just call them amazing humans for being able to do what they did at a time when we did not expect it. Remembering that before these works we were suppose to be primitive H&G. Then bang comes these precison and megalith works. Then they more or less disappear. So in that context we could say it was unique period of history.

Without getting into how they did it.

 

[BCP1928]

It all depends on what you regard a high degree of precision as. I am not saying that humans are capable of great things. But we do draw lines and we do have limitations. That is why I think investigating the works is so important as it will help determine this.

But lets say we have a precision jet engine part which is done on high tech computerised machines. Its 3D and works to a complete math and geometry. I don't think a human is capable of replicating this by hand tools. Its just on another level.

We can even track the evolution of precision. We only started to get to this level through the industrial age. Even then it was still not precise but it gradually became more precise.

So even if we say that these primitive people somehow hand made these works which I don't think they did with the tools they had they are still producing modern day levels of works which should still be regarded as highly advanced. That somehow they could mimick modern tech with ancient tools would in some ways be more astonishing than if they had some machine that was lost to do it.

Ok. Well I don't know. We need more evidence than just andedotal. If you look at how these vases for example have complex math and geometry in them its not something that can be created by feel or sight.

Its not so much that you can create one piece with a couple of reference points. These vases in some places have around 70,000 rewference points that align. If you were to under or over rub or grind one tiny part of the vase you throwing the rest out and that applies to every reference point on the vase.

There comes a point where you have to acknowledge human limitations. Its like the mega blocks. To say 1,000s of primitive people with small sleds and hemp rope somehow moved these blocks when we have problems today with modern machine.

You have to say no this is beyond what they can do. There must have been something else to this story. But you don;t just assume oh well the experts say it was with a sled, hemp rope and manpower so it must be true.

But it doesn't matter. Lets just call them amazing humans for being able to do what they did at a time when we did not expect it. Remembering that before these works we were suppose to be primitive H&G. Then bang comes these precison and megalith works. Then they more or less disappear. So in that context we could say it was unique period of history.

Without getting into how they did it.

You really would benefit from taking a woodworking class or some other subject where you work with hand tools. Hands-on learning is said to be good for dyslexia and you probably enjoy it. You would very likely also learn enough about hand tools to avoid embarrassing yourself any further with posts like that above.

 

[dlamberth]

@dlamberth should probably request a mod for cleanup or thread closure since this is... this is just bad, I will agree..

I've been away on retreat for a week or I would have followed up on your suggestion sooner.

 

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

Per the OP's request:

MOD HAT OFF​