"When you see the abomination of desolation" Matthew 24:15...

[parousia70]

I'm curious Who do you think The beast of Revelation 13 and the man of sin in 2nd Thess are

The Bible NEVER teaches they are the same individual, that much is certain.
Such is only derived from later man made speculation and tradition not found in the pages of Scripture.

And as for The man of Sin in 2 Thess, Paul is abundantly clear he was alive and working at the time Paul was writing, and the Thessalonians knew who he was and who or what was at that time restraining his impending takeover of the temple complex. It is impossible to conclude, using scripture alone, that Paul was referring to a man who wouldn't be born for 2 Millennia.

 

[Berean Tim]

The Bible NEVER teaches they are the same individual, that much is certain.
Such is only derived from later man made speculation and tradition not found in the pages of Scripture.

And as for The man of Sin in 2 Thess, Paul is abundantly clear he was alive and working at the time Paul was writing, and the Thessalonians knew who he was and who or what was at that time restraining his impending takeover of the temple complex. It is impossible to conclude, using scripture alone, that Paul was referring to a man who wouldn't be born for 2 Millennia.

It is not "abundantly" clear he was alive at that time.

2nd Thess 5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.

It is 'the mystery of lawlessness" that's already at work. The Lord Jesus will kill him with the breath of his mouth at His (Jesus) coming.

Jesus hasn't return if he had we would know who the "man of sin" is/was

 

[parousia70]

It is not "abundantly" clear he was alive at that time.

2nd Thess 5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.

Paul plainly shows that the "man of sin" was one of his own contemporaries who was at that time being restrained from the seizure of the Jerusalem Temple by some restrainer there:

And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.

The Holy Spirit was not the restrainer, and the "man of sin" is a man, one who was accomplishing his role in Paul's generation! That is what the text says. The man of sin was alive in Paul's day! What more proof do we need??


The reason it is right to assign 2 Thess 2 to the event of the Temple takeover by the messianic Zealots at AD 66-70 is:

(1) Paul says the man of sin was already in action at the time he is writing and that the Thessalonians knew the man and what was restraining that man -- such is a then-contemporary issue

(2) History shows that the Zealot false messianic movement indeed arose in Israel, indeed captured the Holy Temple, and indeed launched a national rebellion that culminated in the destruction of the nation and Temple

(3) There are *many* day-of-the-Lord judgments throughout history, and the bible counts AD 70 as one of them

(4) The fact that many Day-of-the-Lord events of scripture are now past to us does not mean God will not have a final Day of the Lord event at the end of history

 

[Gottservant]

Revelation does not quote anything from the rest of the Bible - so you are attempting to substantiate a test, that is unbiblical?

 

[Cordell]

Hi there,

So I had this idea that the abomination of desolation represented the dead bodies of the Israelites in Israel, at the time of the beheading of those who do not receive the mark of the Man of Sin. The abomination is that they are the elect and should not be dead; the desolation is that without defending the elect, Israel's claim to authority under God, is void. This is what the Devil wants.

So in effect, Matthew 24:15 means "when you see what the Devil wants, let him who sees the power of the Devil not be afraid of it, let him who overlooks the place of the Devil not provide anything for it (to work) and let him who works for the Devil, not fail to complete his work, question his work or undo his work (a workingly hard saying)" - the point being that as the Holy Spirit begins to work, we are to let holy be holy, righteous be righteous, unclean be unclean and filthy be filthy (Revelation 22:11).

The essence of this, is that seeing the abomination of desolation, we no longer put stock in hope that we or the faith will survive, but by the power of God. So when God promises that there will be life after the abomination of desolation, He is saying the Return of the Christ will distinguish Him separate from the abomination of desolation - which will begin to have faded.

Rest assured! The terror has an end!

The work that we do today, has a reward in Heaven!!

All the Prophecy about the kingdoms that will rise and fall have been given in many symbolic representations, the end-time kingdom in Daniel 2 feet of iron and clay, in Daniel 7 little horn power that comes out of the 4th beast, Revelation the woman that rides the beast. The name abomination of desolation when reading it in Matthew & Daniel refers to the same end-time kingdom which exalts it self as in the place of GOD. Keep in mind the devils use kingdoms and people to persecute the saints.