Achilles6129 said in post #402:
However, it is explicitly stated as a fact that the Son of Man will come at an hour that we think not (even if we are watching for it).
Actually, it isn't. So in Matthew 24:42,44, Jesus could mean that only
if believers don't watch (stay awake, spiritually), his second coming will happen at an hour they don't know/think not (cf. the principle of Revelation 3:3b). In the immediate context of Matthew 24:42,44, Jesus suggests that it is possible for believers to know when his second coming will occur (Matthew 24:43-44a). See also the last part of post #401.
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Achilles6129 said in post #402:
Notice the word "hour"...could this mean that the "hour" of temptation (tribulation) referred to in Rev. 3 begins when we aren't expecting it?
The seven epistles to seven churches in Revelation chapters 2-3 were sent to seven literal first-century local church congregations in seven cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11b), just as Paul wrote epistles to seven different literal first-century local church congregations in seven places in the Roman Empire: Rome, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Philippi, Colosse, and Thessalonica.
Revelation 3:10 meant that the literal first-century local church congregation in the city of Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11b) would be kept safe from a persecution which would come upon all the Roman world during the time of the Roman Emperor Domitian. For John saw his Revelation vision near the end of Domitian's reign (Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c), and according to many historians, Domitian heavily persecuted the church toward the end of his reign. The literal first-century local church congregation in the city of Smyrna (Revelation 2:8) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11b) had to suffer and die in that persecution over a period of ten days (Revelation 2:10).
It should be pointed out that the first-century church in Philadelphia didn't have to be taken out of the world to be kept safe from (ek) that persecution, for, as Jesus prayed for the church in general: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from (ek) the evil" (John 17:15,20). Also, the first-century church in Philadelphia didn't have to be removed from time itself (or from the earth) in order to be kept from the "hour" (or the "time") of that persecution, just as, for example, a student in a classroom who has been excused from taking a test doesn't have to be removed from time itself (or from the classroom) in order to be excused from that time of testing. For he can still be made to sit at his desk reading during that time, which won't be a time of testing for him.
Also, the first-century persecution of Revelation 3:10 (and Revelation 2:10) was only "world"-wide in the sense of the Roman "world" (Luke 2:1). So the subsequent reference to those on the "earth" in Revelation 3:10 should be understood as those Christians living on the earth during that time in the Roman Empire, as opposed to those Christians who had already died and gone to heaven (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23).
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Regarding Revelation 3:10's immediate context (Revelation 3:11 and Revelation 3:9):
While Revelation 3:10 (like Revelation 2:10) was fulfilled in the first century AD, the second coming of Jesus spoken of in Revelation 3:11 (and also in, for example, Revelation 16:15, spoken during the final stage of the future tribulation) hasn't yet been fulfilled. The second coming won't occur until Revelation 19:7-21, immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18/Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).
Also, even though some 2,000 years will have passed between the time Revelation 3:11 was spoken in the first century AD and the time of the fulfillment of the second coming in our future, Jesus will still come "quickly" (Revelation 3:11), just as all the preceding events of the future tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-18) will unfold "shortly" after John saw his vision in the first century AD (Revelation 1:1,3). For from the viewpoint of God, even the passing of some 2,000 years is like the passing of only two days (2 Peter 3:8). Christians should look at the future fulfillment of the tribulation and second coming in Revelation chapters 6-19 from the viewpoint of God, not men, for whom the passing of some 2,000 years seems like a long delay for its fulfillment (cf. 2 Peter 3:9).
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Revelation 3:9 and Revelation 2:9b were referring to unbelieving Jews who were outside of the literal first-century local church congregations in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) that were being addressed, but who were living in the cities where those congregations were located.
Unbelieving genetic Jews aren't truly Jews in the sense that even though unbelieving genetic Jews are physically circumcised, they're spiritually uncircumcised (Acts 7:51) and so they're spiritually not Jews (Romans 2:28-29, Revelation 2:9b, Revelation 3:9).
But all believers, no matter whether they're genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews if they've undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus Christ (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).
Revelation 3:9b was fulfilled in the first century in the local church congregation in the city of Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11b). For Revelation 3:8's "open door" meant that Jesus had made it so that congregation could preach the gospel to the people living in that city (cf. 2 Corinthians 2:12, Colossians 4:3, 1 Corinthians 16:9), which evangelism must have eventually resulted in the salvation of the formerly unbelieving Jews living there (Revelation 3:9b).
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Achilles6129 said in post #402:
So it is told the elect twice that Christ comes at an "hour" (this may mean the span of the tribulation) when they think not.
Actually, it can't mean that, because the elect already know when Jesus will return in relation to the time of the tribulation: immediately after it (Matthew 24:29-31).
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Achilles6129 said in post #402:
I think it's obvious that hour is midnight (see Mt. 25) . . .
The "midnight" in Matthew 25:6 could represent mid-tribulation, when the abomination of desolation (the AOD), possibly a standing android image of the Antichrist, will be set up in the holy place of a third Jewish temple (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31). So, when it says "at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh" (Matthew 25:6), this could mean that at the mid-tribulation point when the AOD is set up, the church will be given the knowledge of the date (as in the year, month, and day) of Jesus' second coming, that date being the 1,335th day after the day on which the AOD is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, cf. Revelation 16:15):
For Daniel 12:11-12 and Revelation 16:15 could mean that exactly 1,335 (literal 24-hour) days after the AOD is set up, Jesus will return, and blessed are those believers who wait and remain obedient until that day.
If the 3.5 years/1,260 (literal 24-hour) days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 12:6b) will begin when the AOD is set up (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31), and if the seven vials of God's wrath will begin on the day after the 3.5 years/1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign are over (Revelation 11:15,19, Revelation 15:5-16:1), and if the first six vials will be poured out over a period of 30 days, then the sixth vial could be poured out on the 1,290th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11).
It's on this 1,290th day that the blessing of Daniel 12:12/Revelation 16:15 could be given, after the sixth vial has been poured out (Revelation 16:12), encouraging those in the church who will still be alive on the earth to keep holding on just 45 more days until Jesus returns on the 1,335th day (Daniel 12:12, Revelation 16:15). The 45 days could be taken up by the gathering together of the armies of the world to Armageddon (Revelation 16:14,16) (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) and then their moving south to pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus returns and defeats them (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:19-21).
But before Jesus defeats them, at his second coming the church (which is the elect: Colossians 3:12, 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 1 Peter 1:2) will first be raptured into the sky (1 Thessalonians 4:17, 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31) to be judged by the returned Jesus (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27) and married to him (Revelation 19:7).
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Matthew 25:6 is part of the parable of the ten virgins (Matthew 25:1-13), which shows that the marriage of the church to Jesus won't occur until his second coming (Matthew 25:10), which Jesus had just finished saying won't occur until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). Revelation 19:7 likewise shows that the marriage of the church to Jesus won't occur until Revelation 19, which won't occur until immediately after the tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18.
In the parable of the ten virgins (Matthew 25:1-13), the extra oil (Matthew 25:4) could represent the continued good works of believers, by which they will be able to pass the judgment of the church (Matthew 25:19-30, Romans 2:6-8) and enter into the marriage of the church at the second coming of Jesus (Matthew 25:10, Revelation 19:7-21). So the parable of the ten virgins applies to how believers are to prepare themselves spiritually for the second coming (Matthew 25:10).
But that preparation will also be valuable during the coming tribulation (which will precede the second coming: Matthew 24:29-30), for it's only by obeying Jesus now, in these days and during the tribulation, that believers' spiritual houses will be on the rock (Matthew 7:24-25), so that during the storm of the tribulation they won't fall away (commit apostasy) (Matthew 7:26-27, 2 Thessalonians 2:3) due to their awful suffering during the tribulation (Matthew 24:9-13, Isaiah 8:21-22, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4, 1 Peter 4:12-13).
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Matthew 25:10's bridal chamber will be in the clouds of the sky at the second coming of Jesus (Revelation 19:7, 1 Thessalonians 4:17), immediately after the tribulation of Matthew 24/Revelation chapters 6-18 (Matthew 24:29-31).
Also, with regard to the marriage supper (Revelation 19:9), note that it hasn't yet begun by the time of Revelation 19, which won't occur until after the tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18. For, with regard to the church, it will be a literal feast which will occur in the earthly Jerusalem after the second coming of Jesus and the resurrection and marriage of the church at that time (Isaiah 25:6-9, 1 Corinthians 15:54, Revelation 19:7-20:6, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54). While the church will feast on good meats and wines (Isaiah 25:6-9), the birds will feast on the corpses of the armies of the world defeated at the second coming (Revelation 19:17-21).
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Achilles6129 said in post #402:
I think that I can tell you that Christ will return at the end of December of some unknown year.
On what scriptures do you base this idea, so we can see what they say?
Also, how does this jibe with your statement quoted at the top of this post?
