When was Revelation written, by whom, and to whom does it apply?

dreadnought · Sep 28, 2017

Root of Jesse said:
This also proves that context means a lot...

I believe that Revelation was written in the 60s during the reign of Nero. In fact, the Syriac version of the Apocalypse even says "written in Patmos, to which John was sent by Nero Caesar."
Clement tells us that it was written while John was on the island of Patmos where he had been exiled by a tyrant. While Domitian was a tyrant, it is improbable that he's the tyrant mentioned here, because his persecutions were mostly local to Rome. Nero was a sadist, though, and is probably the tyrant mentioned.
Many places in the text show Jesus stating "I am coming soon..." or "The time is near".

In light of when I believe (with scholarly backup), Revelation was written to those who were going to experience the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in AD 70. Since John was witnessing his vision at the time of the executions of Peter and Paul by Nero Caesar, it is a warning to the Church, as well.

I have left out the issue of who wrote Revelation (I believe John the Apostle wrote it) so as to make this first post short, but is part of this topic.

One might assume Revelation was written by someone named John. I'm sure there are scholars that have estimated the time of its writing - you could probably google it. Wikipedia might tell you. It's written for all of us.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 28, 2017

dreadnought said:
One might assume Revelation was written by someone named John. I'm sure there are scholars that have estimated the time of its writing - you could probably google it. Wikipedia might tell you. It's written for all of us.

I tend to agree......

Kindgdom Bible Studies Revelation Series Part 1

One misconception shared by some is that the Revelation has nothing of importance to say to us. It’s considered to be merely a bizarre piece of first-century writing with no relevance for today.
Another wrong idea is that the Revelation is a code book describing a specific outline of history written in advance. Countless interpreters have tried to "decode" the book from a historical perspective to find all the major world events of the past 1900 years.
Others interpret it more literally as a handbook for predicting the cataclysmic events that will bring the final wrath of God and the end of the world. The claims of Christian groups from the early church to the present — that the Revelation pinpoints the events, personalities, and time periods of "the end" — have all failed.

This should be a caution to believers for using the book of Revelation as a predictive handbook. Other people’s interpretation of the book of Revelation is based on the "Pan Theory" — it’s all going to pan out in the end!
Beloved brethren, the fact is, it’s not panning out the way the end-time prognosticators are projecting!.........

Revealing Times · Sep 28, 2017

Root of Jesse said:
Why is Israel hardly mentioned? Because the old Israel is about to pass away with the destruction of the temple. The woman in Rev 12 is Mary (because the child she gives birth to is Jesus). It is also telling that it doesn't say Mary appeared...because she's in heaven and sinless. If Rome had already sacked Jerusalem, why would they need to be fearful?

The Woman is Israel. Like I stated, the book of Revelation is one big CODE BOOK. Code book initiated: Genesis 37:9

Gen. 37:9 And he (Joseph) dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun (Jacob) and the moon (Rachel) and the eleven stars (His Brothers) made obeisance to me.

So the 12 Stars, sun and moon is ISRAEL. That is 100 percent factual.

Rev. 12:And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Israel is not mentioned because Rome had destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple and thus would have seen it as treason if the Church had of been found with documents saying that God was going to protect Israel.

It is also known that Domitian had John placed on Patmos because he would not worship him as a Deity. There are still coins that show Domitian claimed to be a deity.

A coin minted by Emperor Domitian in AD 84, depicting Jupiter, chief deity of the Roman pantheon. Also known by his Greek name Zeus, he is holding a thunderbolt (fulmen) in his right hand as a sign of his deity.

A marble portrait of Domitian with an oak-leaf crown, the so-called corona civica, found in Latina, Italy, and now in the National Roman Museum, was probably buried before the emperor died (Sapelli 1998: 24).

What could not be destroyed were coins minted by Domitian because it was impossible to recall all of them. They also provide evidence of Domitian’s boast of deity.

This matches up with what Jesus told to the church at Pergamos:

Rev. 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;

13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Jupiter is Zeus, who is none other that Baal. The Babylonians served Baal as Bel, the Greeks served the same God and called it Belios, later Zeus which the Romans served and later named him Jupiter.

So Satan's Throne is actually the Temple built in Pergamos unto Jupiter/Zeus. This Temple was dug up by a German scientists and transferred to Germany in like 1881 in a tel. In a twist of irony, it was placed in Berlin and Hitler made a replica of it in Nuremberg and that is where he gave most of his crazed speeches from. Its the place in news reels where we see the big NAZI Sign blown up at.

Here is two good stories on this if anyone is interested, the first is the actual story, the second is a person visiting the actual Throne of Satan in Berlin.

P.S. Mary was not sinless. And Mary is not the Woman in Rev. 12, its Israel, Jesus is the male child and the Dragon was Satan trying to kill Jesus via King Herod. Israel then flees unto the Wilderness for 1260 Days, where God protects her.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 28, 2017

Revealing Times said:
The Woman is Israel. Like I stated, the book of Revelation is one big CODE BOOK. Code book initiated: Genesis 37:9

Gen. 37:9 And he (Joseph) dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun (Jacob) and the moon (Rachel) and the eleven stars (His Brothers) made obeisance to me.

So the 12 Stars, sun and moon is ISRAEL. That is 100 percent factual.

Rev. 12:And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Israel is nit mentioned because Rome had destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple and thus would have seen it as treason if the Church had of been found with documents saying that God was going to protect Israel...........

Israel then flees unto the Wilderness for 1260 Days, where God protects her.

Very interesting concerning Genesis 37:9.
I haven't really studied much on the "sun, moon and stars", but since they are mentioned 2 times in Revelation, I may delve into it a bit more.
But it does appeat that the Woman could symbolize Jacob/Israel and his 12 sons.

Genesis 49 shows Jacob/Israel tellings his son about the end of days:

Genesis 49:
1 And Jacob calleth unto his sons and saith, ‘Be gathered together, and I declare to you that which doth happen with ye in the latter end of the days.

2 ‘Be assembled, and hear, sons of Jacob, and hearken unto Israel your father.

Dan 10:14
and I have come to cause thee to understand that which doth happen to thy people in the latter end of the days,
for yet the vision is after days.
Dan 12:13
And thou, go on to the end, then thou dost rest,
and dost stand in thy lot at the end of the days.'

2Pe 3:3
this first knowing, that there shall come in the latter end of the days scoffers, according to their own desires going on,

I used a concordance to see where those 3 words were used together, and only Matt, Luke and Paul mention them together in the Gospels.

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
"sun" AND "moon" AND "stars" occurs in 14 verses
5 times in the NT: 3 in the Gospels and 2 in Revelation

Mat 24:29
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Luk 21:25
“And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars;
and on the land distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;
1Co 15:41
There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.

Revelation has them 2 times including this 1:

Rev 8:12
And the fourth messenger did sound, and smitten was the third of the sun, and the third of the moon, and the third of the stars,
that darkened may be the third of them, and that the day may not shine -- the third of it, and the night in like manner.

Kindgdom Bible Studies Revelation Series
Revelation 8:10-12

It is my deep conviction that in our text it is the third part of the sun of the old heavens, a third part of the moon of the old heavens, and a third part of the stars of the old heavens that are smitten, and the lights (rulerships, authorities, dominions) of that old world of man, of man’s thinking, man’s economy, man’s politics, man’s philosophies, man’s orders, man’s religion, and all the rest, are smitten and darkened in our lives. It is not just our desire to imbibe of those things that is taken away, as under the third trumpet, but now their rule — their authority — their power over us is broken! What we see here is the doing away with the old creation and the bringing forth of the new.

Here he brings up the Tabernacle/Sanctuary which interest me a lot:

Furthermore, the natural sun, moon, and stars were the light of the outer court of Moses’ tabernacle. There was no other light.
The outer court had no covering, so its light was the sun, moon, and stars. In the inner court of the holy place lamps were used as the source of light.
In the most holy place, however, there was no light of the sun, nor any light of the moon, nor the light of the stars. Those lights were completely eclipsed, and the glory of God alone was the light!
As the sons of God come to perfection and the fullness of Christ, the lights and luminaries of the old heavens truly become darkened, so that the word of the Seer of Patmos is fulfilled in us —

The Court in Revelation 11:2

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary of God and the altar and those worshipping in it
2 and the Court/fold, outside the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out! out-side
and no it thou should be measuring,..............

Studies In The Scriptures - Tabernacle Shadows - Chapter 1

The Camp--The Court--The Tabernacle--The Brazen Altar--The Laver-- The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--The Mercy Seat and Ark--The Gate--The First Veil--The Second Veil--The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.

Soyeong · Sep 28, 2017

Root of Jesse said:
This also proves that context means a lot...

I believe that Revelation was written in the 60s during the reign of Nero. In fact, the Syriac version of the Apocalypse even says "written in Patmos, to which John was sent by Nero Caesar."
Clement tells us that it was written while John was on the island of Patmos where he had been exiled by a tyrant. While Domitian was a tyrant, it is improbable that he's the tyrant mentioned here, because his persecutions were mostly local to Rome. Nero was a sadist, though, and is probably the tyrant mentioned.
Many places in the text show Jesus stating "I am coming soon..." or "The time is near".

In light of when I believe (with scholarly backup), Revelation was written to those who were going to experience the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in AD 70. Since John was witnessing his vision at the time of the executions of Peter and Paul by Nero Caesar, it is a warning to the Church, as well.

I have left out the issue of who wrote Revelation (I believe John the Apostle wrote it) so as to make this first post short, but is part of this topic.

It is important to interpret Revelation in a way that would have been relevant to its original recipients and yet Revelation is also in regard to future events. This verse is key to understanding prophecy:

Ecclesiastes 1:9 What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Sep 28, 2017

Am I to understand from lloj and soyeong that there will be a repeat of the trial of Lucifer when 2/3 of the angels fell? Perhaps it is the same outcome for the worldly but it doesn't seem to hold up as the outcome for believers (all those who have initially heard the word) because they are divided into 4 types of soil.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Sep 28, 2017

LittleLambofJesus said:
......
The outer court had no covering, so its light was the sun, moon, and stars. In the inner court of the holy place lamps were used as the source of light.
///

Interestingly that is rumoured to be the place where the Dome of the Rock sits now so the new temple could actually be built beside it just missing the outer court!

Revealing Times · Sep 29, 2017

LittleLambofJesus said:
It is my deep conviction that in our text it is the third part of the sun of the old heavens, a third part of the moon of the old heavens, and a third part of the stars of the old heavens that are smitten, and the lights (rulerships, authorities, dominions) of that old world of man, of man’s thinking, man’s economy, man’s politics, man’s philosophies, man’s orders, man’s religion, and all the rest, are smitten and darkened in our lives. It is not just our desire to imbibe of those things that is taken away, as under the third trumpet, but now their rule — their authority — their power over us is broken! What we see here is the doing away with the old creation and the bringing forth of the new.

Have you ever noticed that the Seals, Trumpets and Vial get progressively worse?

Everything that happens in 1/3 (thirds) in the Trumpets happen in full on the Vials. The Seals are the origin of the Anti-Christ coming forth, his murderous ways are testified to in the 5th Seal then the Plagues/Judgments come forth via God in everyones sight.

Rev. 8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; 9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

Rev. 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rev. 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

Rev. 16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rev. 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

Rev. 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then we have the Three Earthquakes that seem to get progressively stronger.

Rev. 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Rev. 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Rev. 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 29, 2017

LittleLambofJesus said:
*snip*

Here he brings up the Tabernacle/Sanctuary which interest me a lot:

Furthermore, the natural sun, moon, and stars were the light of the outer court of Moses’ tabernacle. There was no other light.
The outer court had no covering, so its light was the sun, moon, and stars. In the inner court of the holy place lamps were used as the source of light.
In the most holy place, however, there was no light of the sun, nor any light of the moon, nor the light of the stars. Those lights were completely eclipsed, and the glory of God alone was the light!
As the sons of God come to perfection and the fullness of Christ, the lights and luminaries of the old heavens truly become darkened, so that the word of the Seer of Patmos is fulfilled in us —

The Court in Revelation 11:2

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary of God and the altar and those worshipping in it
2 and the Court/fold, outside the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out! out-side
and no it thou should be measuring,..............

Studies In The Scriptures - Tabernacle Shadows - Chapter 1

The Camp--The Court--The Tabernacle--The Brazen Altar--The Laver-- The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--The Mercy Seat and Ark--The Gate--The First Veil--The Second Veil--The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.

~Cassia~ said:
Interestingly that is rumoured to be the place where the Dome of the Rock sits now so the new temple could actually be built beside it just missing the outer court!

Could it be sitting where the Sanctuary of the Temple stood?
I can't even imagine how long it would take just to build that structure, which contained the Holy and Most Holy Place.

Deut 28:
66 "and becomes lives of thee being hung to thee from in front of, and thou art afraid night and by day, and shalt have no assurance of thy life.
67 In morning thou sayest 'who shall give evening' and in evening thou shalt say 'who shall give morning'.
From awe of heart of thee which thou shalt fear and from sight of eyes of thee which thou shalt see"

...............................

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The three factions, rendered frantic by drunkenness, rage, and desperation, trampling on heaps of slain, fought against each other with brutal savageness and madness..........
The dead bodies of priests and worshippers, both natives and foreigners were heaped together, and a lake of blood stagnated in the sacred courts.
At this critical and alarming conjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman army was approaching the City.
The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ;
there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.......

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins............

For five days after the destruction of the Temple, the priests who had escaped, sat, pining with hunger, on the top of one of its broken walls; at length, they came down, and humbly asked the pardon of Titus, which, however, he refused to grant them
Zep 3:4
Her prophets unstable -- men of treachery, Her priests have polluted the Sanctuary, they have violated the law

1Co 3:16
have ye not known that ye are a sanctuary of God,
and the Spirit of God doth dwell in you?

Rev 21:22
And a Sanctuary I did not see in it,
for the Lord God the Almighty, is its Sanctuary, and the Lamb,

Citizen of the Kingdom · Sep 29, 2017

LittleLambofJesus said:
Could it be sitting where the Sanctuary of the Temple stood?
I can't even imagine how long it would take just to build that structure, which contained the Holy and Most Holy Place.

Deut 28:
66 "and becomes lives of thee being hung to thee from in front of, and thou art afraid night and by day, and shalt have no assurance of thy life.
67 In morning thou sayest 'who shall give evening' and in evening thou shalt say 'who shall give morning'.
From awe of heart of thee which thou shalt fear and from sight of eyes of thee which thou shalt see"

...............................View attachment 208836

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The three factions, rendered frantic by drunkenness, rage, and desperation, trampling on heaps of slain, fought against each other with brutal savageness and madness..........
The dead bodies of priests and worshippers, both natives and foreigners were heaped together, and a lake of blood stagnated in the sacred courts.
At this critical and alarming conjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman army was approaching the City.
The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ;
there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.......

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins............

For five days after the destruction of the Temple, the priests who had escaped, sat, pining with hunger, on the top of one of its broken walls; at length, they came down, and humbly asked the pardon of Titus, which, however, he refused to grant them
Zep 3:4
Her prophets unstable -- men of treachery, Her priests have polluted the Sanctuary, they have violated the law

1Co 3:16
have ye not known that ye are a sanctuary of God,
and the Spirit of God doth dwell in you?

Rev 21:22
And a Sanctuary I did not see in it,
for the Lord God the Almighty, is its Sanctuary, and the Lamb,

Here's a diagram of what I mentioned. Can't say how sound the info is but it's an interesting thought that they could rebuilt the temple w/o touching the Dome of the Rock.

JackRT · Sep 29, 2017

It is my understanding that the Dome of the Rock is built directly over the Holy of Holies of the old Temple. At its exact centre is a small expanse of exposed bedrock with four chiseled holes where the feet of the Ark of the Covenant stood.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Sep 29, 2017

It piqued my interest because the outer court is not counted as being a part the sanctuary in Revelations

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 29, 2017

JackRT said:
It is my understanding that the Dome of the Rock is built directly over the Holy of Holies of the old Temple.
At its exact centre is a small expanse of exposed bedrock with four chiseled holes where the feet of the Ark of the Covenant stood.

According to Josephus, Titus left part of the western wall, would that be the "wailing wall"?
The Gold Dome is not far from it

Zeph 1: 16 mentions high/lofty towers, as does Titus.........

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications and while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF.
"Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?"
After this he commanded that the City should be commanded razed to its foundations, excepting only the three lofty towers Hippocos, Phasael, and Mariamne, which he suffered to remain as evidences of its strength, and as trophies of his victory.

Zeph 1:
16
A day of trumpet and alarm against the fortified cities
And against the high towers.

There was left standing, also, a small part of the western wall; as a rampart for a garrison, to keep the surrounding country in subjection. Titus now gave orders that those Jews only who resisted should be slain ; but the soldiers, equally void of pity and remorse, slew even the sick and the aged.........

Gold Dome and Wailing wall

Dave G. · Sep 29, 2017

There is a group of biblical scholars over there who feel the dome is the wrong location all together. The bed rock under it is the wrong type of rock for one thing and the proper spring that needs to flow is in another location they say. They have studied it out and measured etc and are convinced but can't convince officials as yet.. Construction could start more or less right away otherwise. Again, according to them.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 29, 2017

~Cassia~ said:
It piqued my interest because the outer court is not counted as being a part the sanctuary in Revelations

Good picture and thanks. The outer court would make a good study.

The Court in Revelation 11:2

The same greek word for "court" is used in Matt 26:3 concerning the Chief Priests, where Jesus was taken. Interesting

Matthew 26:3
Then were gathered together the Chief-priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, to the Court/Fold of the Chief-priest who was called Caiaphas

Most bible versions render "leave out" in 11:2, but the greek word used is the exact same form of the word used in Galatians 4:30 concerning Hagar and her son "being cast out", [much like Adam being cast out of the garden in Gene 3:24]

Galatians 4:30
but what saith the Writing? 'be Casting Out!/ek-bale <1544> (5628) the maid-servant and the son of her....[Genesis 21:10]
Revelation 11:2
and the Court/fold outside of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out!/ek-bale <1544> (5628) out-side/exw <1854>,
and no it thou should be measuring, [Matt 26:3/Gala 4:30]

1544. ek-ballo ek-bal'-lo from 1537 and 906; to eject (literally or figuratively):--bring forth, cast (forth, out)

Root of Jesse · Sep 29, 2017

dreadnought said:
One might assume Revelation was written by someone named John. I'm sure there are scholars that have estimated the time of its writing - you could probably google it. Wikipedia might tell you. It's written for all of us.

Well, you never know (being facetious)...there's a lot of people who don't think Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote the gospels, there's those who believe Mark was the first gospel, and some who believe in a Q source. I'm not denigrating anyone's viewpoint, we may not know until and unless we attain heaven. I don't do much with Wiki when it comes to things like this.
Lastly, it is written to all of us, indirectly, but to the 7 Churches in Asia, specifically. But remember that Paul wrote to the various Churches independently, and was targeting them to correct their errors after he left. Their mistakes are useful to us because we keep making them over and over, and need to know how to correct them.

Root of Jesse · Sep 29, 2017

Revealing Times said:
The Woman is Israel. Like I stated, the book of Revelation is one big CODE BOOK. Code book initiated: Genesis 37:9

Gen. 37:9 And he (Joseph) dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun (Jacob) and the moon (Rachel) and the eleven stars (His Brothers) made obeisance to me.

So the 12 Stars, sun and moon is ISRAEL. That is 100 percent factual.

Rev. 12:And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Israel is not mentioned because Rome had destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple and thus would have seen it as treason if the Church had of been found with documents saying that God was going to protect Israel.

It is also known that Domitian had John placed on Patmos because he would not worship him as a Deity. There are still coins that show Domitian claimed to be a deity.

A coin minted by Emperor Domitian in AD 84, depicting Jupiter, chief deity of the Roman pantheon. Also known by his Greek name Zeus, he is holding a thunderbolt (fulmen) in his right hand as a sign of his deity.

A marble portrait of Domitian with an oak-leaf crown, the so-called corona civica, found in Latina, Italy, and now in the National Roman Museum, was probably buried before the emperor died (Sapelli 1998: 24).

What could not be destroyed were coins minted by Domitian because it was impossible to recall all of them. They also provide evidence of Domitian’s boast of deity.

This matches up with what Jesus told to the church at Pergamos:

Rev. 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;

13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Jupiter is Zeus, who is none other that Baal. The Babylonians served Baal as Bel, the Greeks served the same God and called it Belios, later Zeus which the Romans served and later named him Jupiter.

So Satan's Throne is actually the Temple built in Pergamos unto Jupiter/Zeus. This Temple was dug up by a German scientists and transferred to Germany in like 1881 in a tel. In a twist of irony, it was placed in Berlin and Hitler made a replica of it in Nuremberg and that is where he gave most of his crazed speeches from. Its the place in news reels where we see the big NAZI Sign blown up at.

Here is two good stories on this if anyone is interested, the first is the actual story, the second is a person visiting the actual Throne of Satan in Berlin.

P.S. Mary was not sinless. And Mary is not the Woman in Rev. 12, its Israel, Jesus is the male child and the Dragon was Satan trying to kill Jesus via King Herod. Israel then flees unto the Wilderness for 1260 Days, where God protects her.

Right. There's only one way to read it and it's yours. The ECF all tell us who the woman is, it's one of the things they agree on almost completely. It's Mary. And she is in heaven bodily and therefore (because she's in heaven) she IS sinless. I know two or three of our Marian dogmas come specifically from this scene. It's the reformers who say she's not and it's not in order to try to put down the Catholic Church.

Goatee · Sep 29, 2017

It is VERY much obvious it is Mary. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just twisting scripture to suit their own individual beliefs.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 29, 2017

Root of Jesse said:
Well, you never know (being facetious)...there's a lot of people who don't think Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote the gospels, there's those who believe Mark was the first gospel, and some who believe in a Q source. I'm not denigrating anyone's viewpoint, we may not know until and unless we attain heaven. I don't do much with Wiki when it comes to things like this.
Lastly, it is written to all of us, indirectly, but to the 7 Churches in Asia, specifically. But remember that Paul wrote to the various Churches independently, and was targeting them to correct their errors after he left.
Their mistakes are useful to us because we keep making them over and over, and need to know how to correct them.

I was looking at the word "myrrh" since that is the meaning of the church "Smyrna".

Kindgdom Bible Studies Revelation Series

“And unto the Messenger of the church in Smyrna write…” (Rev. 2:8).

...........Smyrna means “sweet smelling” and comes from the root word for myrrh.
Carefully the linens were prepared, and wound around the bodies of the loved ones, while myrrh was packed between the folds of the cloth.
Thus was the body of our Lord embalmed!.....................

Now this is just amazing.
The word "myrrh" is used only 2 times in the NT, once at the birth of Jesus and one at His burial.......

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
Strong's Number G4666 matches the Greek σμύρνα (smyrna),
which occurs 2 times in 2 verses

Mat 2:11
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshipped Him:
and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto Him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh..

Jhn 19:
39
And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight.
40
Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Sep 29, 2017

LittleLambofJesus said:
I was looking at the word "myrrh" since that is the meaning of the church "Smyrna".

Kindgdom Bible Studies Revelation Series

“And unto the Messenger of the church in Smyrna write…” (Rev. 2:8).

...........Smyrna means “sweet smelling” and comes from the root word for myrrh.
Carefully the linens were prepared, and wound around the bodies of the loved ones, while myrrh was packed between the folds of the cloth.
Thus was the body of our Lord embalmed!.....................

Now this is just amazing.
The word "myrrh" is used only 2 times in the NT, once at the birth of Jesus and one at His burial.......

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
Strong's Number G4666 matches the Greek σμύρνα (smyrna),
which occurs 2 times in 2 verses

Mat 2:11
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshipped Him:
and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto Him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh..

Jhn 19:
39
And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight.
40
Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.

Speaking of myrrh check this out
The decree of Esther ...
The Decree of Esther

When was Revelation written, by whom, and to whom does it apply?

Lip service isn't really service.

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Well-Known Member

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord

Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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