When was Jesus born?

[3sigma]

I saw this in another thread in this forum.

But Jesus was around before 500 BC.

Are there any other Christians here who think that Jesus was born more than 500 years before Christ?

[FONT=&quot]If so, what could possibly make you think such a thing?[/FONT]

 

[Heavenheart81]

Hi

Im confused on what youre asking, please forgive me.

Jesus is Christ. He was around before anything its just that he was born into a "man".

 

[3sigma]

Jesus is Christ. He was around before anything its just that he was reincarnated into a "man".

[FONT=&quot]I see. I guess I was confused by the meaning of the adjective ‘around’. I thought it meant being in existence, evidence or circulation, but apparently you and MikeMcK are using it in another sense. Given that Jesus wasn’t in apparent existence, evidence or circulation until after his birth, could you please clarify what meaning you have given to the word ‘around’?[/FONT]

 

[MikeMcK]

Hi

Im confused on what youre asking, please forgive me.

Jesus is Christ. He was around before anything its just that he was reincarnated into a "man".

Jesus was not reincarnated. He was fully God and, at a point in time, He took on a human nature in addition to His divine nature.

This is known as the "incarnation". Reincarnation is something completely different.

 

[MikeMcK]

[FONT=&quot]I see. I guess I was confused by the meaning of the adjective ‘around’. I thought it meant being in existence, evidence or circulation, but apparently you and MikeMcK are using it in another sense. Given that Jesus wasn’t in apparent existence, evidence or circulation until after his birth, could you please clarify what meaning you have given to the word ‘around’?[/FONT]

Jesus, being God, has always existed and we see the first mention of Jesus as an individual as early as Genesis 3:15.

 

[3sigma]

Jesus, being God, has always existed and we see the first mention of Jesus as an individual as early as Genesis 3:15.

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

[FONT=&quot]Sorry, I don’t see how this refers to Jesus. Could you clarify this, please?[/FONT]

 

[MikeMcK]

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

[FONT=&quot]Sorry, I don’t see how this refers to Jesus. Could you clarify this, please?[/FONT]

It is a prophecy concerning Jesus and His victory over Satan.

 

[Heavenheart81]

Ok, "around" in the sense that He had always existed in "spirit"

If im not mistaken..When the pharasees went to test Jesus, He did claim that He was around even at the time of abraham..But they were claiming that he wasnt even 50 years old yet, thats when He made a statment about it.

Its late ill go digging for it and post it tommorow.

 

[3sigma]

It is a prophecy concerning Jesus and His victory over Satan.

[FONT=&quot]Sorry, I still don’t see it. Could you tell me how you arrived at that conclusion, please? Where does it mention Jesus?[/FONT]

 

[3sigma]

Ok, "around" in the sense that He had always existed in "spirit"

[FONT=&quot]Actually, things don’t exist in spirit. In spirit means supernatural or immaterial, neither of which exist in the real world. So, when you say ‘around in spirit’, what you are really saying is ‘not around at all’, aren’t you? Please show me some sound, objective evidence that Jesus was around in the real world before he was born.[/FONT]

 

[Heavenheart81]

Lets clear some things up first of all.

In the orignal post you quoted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcK
But Jesus was around before 500 BC.


and you said
Are there any other Christians here who think that Jesus was born more than 500 years before Christ?

[FONT=&quot]If so, what could possibly make you think such a thing?[/FONT]


All he said was He was around 500 years BC. before He came down from Heaven.. Jesus did still exist. God is,was and always will be.

People seem to have the notion i think that Jesus never had a life before he actually came down from Heaven.

So when you realize Jesus is God (part of the Holy Trinity) Youll understand that He was in Heaven (since im not aloud to say around..)

And we are all spirits in a body.


"Please show me some sound, objective evidence that Jesus was around in the real world before he was born."

There is no evidence that he was in the "real world" because to my understanding he Was still in Heaven. So many people want proof and evidence, You gain knowledge and understanding through God Himself once you come to Him.

 

[Talus]

I saw this in another thread in this forum.


Are there any other Christians here who think that Jesus was born more than 500 years before Christ?

[FONT=&quot]If so, what could possibly make you think such a thing?[/FONT]

The Bible tells us that at no time before has any man seen the Father (see John 1:18, 6:46) and that Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God (see Colossians 1:15). So, each time the Bible records that Old Testament people had seen God, then they must have seen Jesus who is the visible image of the invisible God.

Consider two such examples:

A renoun example of the pre-incarnate Jesus appearing in human form can be found in Genesis 18 where He, and two angels, appear to Abraham. The response of Abraham to their visit and later on the exchange between Abraham and the LORD when they are talking about the impending destruction of Sodom (see Genesis 18:16-33) are strong evidence that Abraham realised that He was in the presence of Jesus (who is God).

Another noteable example of Jesus appearing in human form prior to becoming fully and properly man is that of Jacob when he famously wrestled with God (see Genesis 32:24-32).

There are many such examples spread throughout the Old Testament, such as Hagar (see Genesis 16:7-13), Moses (see Exodus 33:11), Joshua (see Joshua 5:13-6:2), Isaiah (see Isaiah 6:5), and Job (see Job 42:5), among others.

Even Jesus Himself pointed out quite bluntly that He existed prior to Him becoming truly and properly man and didn't the Jews know it by their response (see John 9:58-59) to Him claiming that "Before Abraham was born, I am!" The apostle Paul also confirms this by his teaching in Philippians 2:5-8 and in other letters.

---

As a final note: like what the others had already said, we are not claiming that Jesus was born prior to the incarnation, but that He had always existed as God before He came to Earth to be born of a virgin so that He could become truly and properly man while still being truly and properly God.

 

[3sigma]

Talus and Heavenheart81,

[FONT=&quot]Thank you for your responses. I guess that settles it then. If the Bible says it, it must be true, right? Sadly, as an atheist, I think that the Bible is self-serving religious nonsense and make believe so I don’t find your responses particularly convincing. If you could please show me some sound, objective evidence supporting the assertions that you’ve made about God, Jesus, heaven and spirits then I would find that much more convincing. Thanks in anticipation.[/FONT]

 

[Gareth]

[FONT=&quot]Sorry, I still don’t see it. Could you tell me how you arrived at that conclusion, please? Where does it mention Jesus?[/FONT]

It doesn't specifically mention Jesus by name but it is inferred. You undoubtly read the verse in question. It is the first Bible prophecy uttered and is still to be fulfilled completely. For me the problem in understanding this verse is complicated by the trinity. God was not talking about Himself or to Himself with the bruising of the head and heel. He was talking of someone else who was going to buy back what Adam had lost with their own life.

If God was going to do that Himself does that infer God to be mortal? Why not sort the problem out there and then? He is God Almighty and He can do anything, right? So why hold back? God had to allow time to pass to prove whether man can live without His direction and support. Prov.27:11 shows God is taunted by Satan. Look at the first few chapters of Job to see how that happens.

So this is the challenge: who has the right to rule mankind. The bruising on the heel occurred at Calvary. The bruising in the head is yet to happen, but the Devil knows it will. If you bruise your heel it hurts but is only temporary. If you are bruised in the head it can be fatal. And when God's son, Jesus bruises Satan in the head it will be fatal.

 

[Heavenheart81]

Talus and Heavenheart81,

[FONT=&quot]Thank you for your responses. I guess that settles it then. If the Bible says it, it must be true, right? Sadly, as an atheist, I think that the Bible is self-serving religious nonsense and make believe so I don’t find your responses particularly convincing. If you could please show me some sound, objective evidence supporting the assertions that you’ve made about God, Jesus, heaven and spirits then I would find that much more convincing. Thanks in anticipation.[/FONT]

In the time of Jesus He did all kinds of miracles,healing Heaven itself was opened up briefly and they saw proof through Jesus rising/as well as every prophesy was fulfilled, YET many still didnt believe, ask yourself would you believe if you had "sound proof".

I bet you would if you were open minded..than satan would take that away from you and you will be just asking for more "sound evidence" Through FAITH (which is a gift from God) God reveals Himself to us. He is more than willing to give it to you. If in youre heart that is what you truly want.

Im sorry to hear that you need evidence,signs and such. Someone had listed a bunch of prophesies that were all fulfilled perhaps you can do some study work on them and see for yourself ill find them a bit later as i have a lot of work to do today

I really hope you find what youre looking for. Take Care

God Bless!

 

[dvd_holc]

I saw this in another thread in this forum.


Are there any other Christians here who think that Jesus was born more than 500 years before Christ?

[FONT=&quot]If so, what could possibly make you think such a thing?[/FONT]

Jesus was born on the first day of Sukkot (Feastival of Tabernacles) about 6 BC to 4 BC.

 

[dvd_holc]

Now, the promise of the Messiah would redeem the world began after the fall of mankind. But before that the Messiah was present in the creation of the whole creation.