When was Hell created?

[loktai]

When was Hell created?

It says in Genesis that God created everything and that it was good. Including the tree of knowledge of good and evil. How could there be knowledge of evil, if God did not create anything that was evil?

It is also said that it was a talking serpent that beguiled Eve into eating of this tree, but as one of God's creations surely the serpent would be good?

In the past I have heard that it was Satan and not the Serpent, but how can this be, because Satan is still in God's company even in the book of Job and had not yet been cast out. It is not until the very end of the Bible that we hear of the fall in revelations.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Being Christian means never having to be logically consistent.

(Apologies to "Love Story")

 

[AV1611VET]

Being Christian means never having to be logically consistent.

Right ... I say one thing one day, and another thing the next, don't I?

In fact, no one here as ever complained that I'm "hard headed" or "brainwashed," have they?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Right ... I say one thing one day, and another thing the next, don't I?

In fact, no one here as ever complained that I'm "hard headed" or "brainwashed," have they?

When was hell created?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Right ... I say one thing one day, and another thing the next, don't I?

In fact, no one here as ever complained that I'm "hard headed" or "brainwashed," have they?

I have seen you say different things in the same thread.

So yes, when it comes to you it is "Doh!" indeed.

 

[disciple1938]

Everything has reciprocals: hot-cold, dark-light, happy-sad, before-after, OH YEAH! and even GOOD-EVIL. Something cannot be good if there is no evil. However having said all that, you are making untrue assumptions and misapplications of the true scripture (whether on purpose as a debunker or unintentionally as a casual reader I don't know). A large portion of scripture is allegorical and metaphoric. Except to his disciples Jesus always spoke in parables, which he clearly explained to his disciples when they asked about them. There also is a "serpent seed", implying a "serpent race" living in or near the garden. Adam was not the first man-he was the first man with a soul. Other humanoid like races (without human souls) existed unknown years (perhaps millennial ages). in the land of Eden long before Adam was created. Satan Lucifer was an angel who had the job of overseeing Eden and he decided on his own to compete against the creator and rebel after deceiving 1/3 of the angels to follow him in his rebellion. How many years occurred between Gen 1:1 and the recreation story that follows in Gen 1:2 is unknown. Other scriptures tell plainly that God did not create heaven and earth in an empty and void of life condition--that was the result of after many years of terrible angel wars. The first and second chapters of genesis are mostly about the rebuilding of what was destroyed from these wars. So you need to do a lot more homework before making such claims. God bless you in your quest for knowledge. Just remember there is an eternal past from which things have arisen and an eternal future ahead for the creation to continue. And the bible is not as simple as the "See Spot Run" book or the "Dick and Jane" series. Although in a spiritual sense, perhaps it is, since we have such a great deal to learn and an eternity in which to do so. Thanks for posting your question; many will be helped by it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Cold is not the "reciprocal" of hot. Cold only indicates a relative lack of heat. The same goes for light and dark. You cannot "shine" a beam of darkness on something. Darkness is simply the lack of light. And before and after and definitely not reciprocals. That fits into the analogy even worse. Perhaps you might want to reword your phrase.

 

[disciple1938]

Perhaps reciprocal is the wrong term, but the fact exists that these are opposites and the concept of one cannot exist without the other. In fact you can "shine a beam of darkness on something. Dark matter is said to fill at least as much of the universe as light matter...some estimate as much as 95 percent. Thanks for the correction on the improper use of the term reciprocal. I am glad I have eternity to learn duh! Seems I may need it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Light can exist whether or not dark exists, in fact dark does not really exist. The same goes for cold. It is only a lack of heat. Now I have heard some Christians describe Hell as a lack of God. That might be a tack that you want to take.

 

[AV1611VET]

When was hell created?

Technically Hell wasn't "created," it was "prepared."

The reason I differentiate is to distance Hell from the Creation Week.

But to answer your question:

Hell was prepared after the Fall.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[AV1611VET]

Cold is not the "reciprocal" of hot. Cold only indicates a relative lack of heat. The same goes for light and dark. You cannot "shine" a beam of darkness on something. Darkness is simply the lack of light. And before and after and definitely not reciprocals. That fits into the analogy even worse. Perhaps you might want to reword your phrase.

Cold is the absence of heat, dark is the absence of light, bad is the absence of good, hate is the absence of love, etc.

These are dichotomies.

 

[loktai]

Everything has reciprocals: hot-cold, dark-light, happy-sad, before-after, OH YEAH! and even GOOD-EVIL. Something cannot be good if there is no evil. However having said all that, you are making untrue assumptions and misapplications of the true scripture (whether on purpose as a debunker or unintentionally as a casual reader I don't know). A large portion of scripture is allegorical and metaphoric. Except to his disciples Jesus always spoke in parables, which he clearly explained to his disciples when they asked about them. There also is a "serpent seed", implying a "serpent race" living in or near the garden. Adam was not the first man-he was the first man with a soul. Other humanoid like races (without human souls) existed unknown years (perhaps millennial ages). in the land of Eden long before Adam was created. Satan Lucifer was an angel who had the job of overseeing Eden and he decided on his own to compete against the creator and rebel after deceiving 1/3 of the angels to follow him in his rebellion. How many years occurred between Gen 1:1 and the recreation story that follows in Gen 1:2 is unknown. Other scriptures tell plainly that God did not create heaven and earth in an empty and void of life condition--that was the result of after many years of terrible angel wars. The first and second chapters of genesis are mostly about the rebuilding of what was destroyed from these wars. So you need to do a lot more homework before making such claims. God bless you in your quest for knowledge. Just remember there is an eternal past from which things have arisen and an eternal future ahead for the creation to continue. And the bible is not as simple as the "See Spot Run" book or the "Dick and Jane" series. Although in a spiritual sense, perhaps it is, since we have such a great deal to learn and an eternity in which to do so. Thanks for posting your question; many will be helped by it.

My assumptions are no more untrue than yours. How is the casual reader supposed to discern what is metaphorical or allegorical, when even the experts tell you different things?

Your response still doesn't really address the question at hand. From what I read there is NO mention of Satan or Lucifer in genesis. The account in revelation speaks of a 10 headed dragon (satan) wearing a crown of 10 stars. That being said, if that happened between Gen 1:! and Gen 1:2 - why then is Satan still in the presence of God all throughout the book of Job, as it is him that suggests God smite Job.

It really isn't a cut and dry question that can be explained away with metaphor and allegory, it requires someone to address the question propery and not assume I have not done any research.

 

[juvenissun]

When was Hell created?

It says in Genesis that God created everything and that it was good. Including the tree of knowledge of good and evil. How could there be knowledge of evil, if God did not create anything that was evil?

Hell began to exist when the first evil human died. I assume it was Cain.

The "knowledge" of evil is actually very simple, you simply say no to God. That is it.

 

[AV1611VET]

From what I read there is NO mention of Satan or Lucifer in genesis.

That doesn't mean he wasn't there.

You have to take the whole Bible into account, comparing spiritual things with spiritual, rightly dividing the Word of truth.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Ezekiel 28:13a Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

 

[disciple1938]

Actually that is probably not the tack I wish to take. Light cannot be manifested except as it shines in darkness. If there was no darkness one would understand light. One contrasts the other. This was best brought to my attention by my three year old grand daughter when we were coloring in her book. She handed me her white crayon and said, "here grandpa; you can have this one I don't want it its broken." My point (which I really believe is obvious) is that for any kind of creative act to be manifested or comprehended you need a contrast. If there were no evil we wouldn't know good. Almost everyone understands that. Light is anything that makes manifest. Darkness does exist and so does cold, both in great abundance and both are measurable. Dark matter is an object of much study by science nowadays. To say that darkness is just a lack of light does not negate its existence. Likewise to say cold is just a lack of heat does not dispel its existence in the real world. Sorry, while I agree that one is a lack of the other, I just cannot agree with your assertion on this point. If I say the room was dark everyone will understand what I mean and therefore the concept clearly exists. Of course I could have said the room lacks light; but what a mute point...why quibble; it would add nothing to the communication.

 

[loktai]

Technically Hell wasn't "created," it was "prepared."

The reason I differentiate is to distance Hell from the Creation Week.

But to answer your question:

Hell was prepared after the Fall.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

So there were sinners that came before Job - where did they all go to?
As Satan was still at God's side to smite him.

After reading that book this morning, I felt like you were damned if you did sin and damned if you didn't. You either lived a perfect sinless life, then god would come and destroy your livelihood, home, children and then afflict you with disfiguring diseases to TRY and make you sin, then when you did punished you for eternity. OR you sinned and lived a relatively happy life, and then got punished for eternity.

 

[AV1611VET]

So there were sinners that came before Job - where did they all go to?

We are all sinners by birth, because we are born with what we call the Sin Nature.

Those who died in the Old Testament (Adam, Job, Moses, Joshua, David, et.al.) went to Hell.

Hell, in the Old Testament, consisted of three parts:

1. Hell proper ... fire and brimstone.
2. The Bottomless Pit
3. Paradise

A saved sinner, such as Job, went to Paradise; an unregenerate sinner, such as the rich man, went to Hell proper.*

In the New Testament, Jesus took Paradise to Heaven; so today, Hell consists of:

1. Hell proper
2. The Bottomless Pit

* Old Testament saints were saved by looking forward to the Cross; New Testament saints are saved by looking back at the Cross.

 

[loktai]

That doesn't mean he wasn't there.

You have to take the whole Bible into account, comparing spiritual things with spiritual, rightly dividing the Word of truth.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Ezekiel 28:13a Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

It doesn't mean that he was either AV.

 

[loktai]

That still doesn't address the question of why Satan was still present with Job if Hell already existed.

 

[AV1611VET]

It doesn't mean that he was either AV.

Those three passages I quoted should be enough to make one realize that Lucifer-turned-Satan was in the Garden of Eden.