When something has been sanctified.

[sentipente]

If Christianity is the true religion then one would first need to be instructed correctly.

How can Christianity be the true religion when it is only two thousand years old and is based on manuscripts that are much older? Why would the Creator preserve these wonderful manuscripts for the benefit of Christianity all these years, as is claimed, yet leave the people of that period without the true religion. He can't be that inefficient.

 

[sentipente]

Senti, is your view of Scripture similar to Stormy's? I'm trying to find something I can brace myself against here that you will accept as authoritative to proceed with the discussion. With Stormy, I obviously can't use Sacred Tradition or Sacred Scripture which leaves me with only conjecture.

Some time ago I rode the bus with a dear Catholic sister who had just come from spending some time in a monastery. She used a quotation that I have found to be very useful. She told me that she uses as her authority the one who is the author of her life. Nothing wrong with that. Why can't we use the same authority? Why do we have to use surrogates for the one who is omnipotent and does not appear to have abandoned us? The funny thing is that when I take a close look at the message of the Bible I find that it does not recommend the dogma of those who claim that the Bible is their authority.

 

[Pythons]

validation means nothing to those who are not interested in stepping onto your field of play.... I can tell you that I can play basketball better than Michael Jordan, but if you have no desire to play me in basketball, then the point is moot.... what you have said is important to you, it may or may not be important to me or someone else, the key is can you talk to me one on one, or must you always recite chapter and verse about the things you think are important?

Secular history undermines what you believe is your position because there is scant proof for much of what is found in the bible.... but, thanks for clarifying.....

You can tell me that you play basketball better then Michael Jorden but if your only evidence is conjecture the buy-in will be weak. If you offer evidence in the way of testimoney from others along with video footage of your moves then you are offering more then conjecture.

I'm fine with not throwing Bible verses around and can deal with this just using logic so if that works for you lets roll with it. State your premise on why or why not the Sabbath has been sanctified not using Scripture quotes, Sacred Tradition or secular history. I'll be right behind you with my answer.

 

[Pythons]

Some time ago I rode the bus with a dear Catholic sister who had just come from spending some time in a monastery. She used a quotation that I have found to be very useful. She told me that she uses as her authority the one who is the author of her life. Nothing wrong with that. Why can't we use the same authority? Why do we have to use surrogates for the one who is omnipotent and does not appear to have abandoned us? The funny thing is that when I take a close look at the message of the Bible I find that it does not recommend the dogma of those who claim that the Bible is their authority.

Stormy said because God didn't write the Bible it isn't the Word of God, nor can we be sure what's in the Bible is even correct. To have a proper discussion I need to have a frame of reference we both agree on as the authority for our positions aside.

I'm certainly not a Scripture scholar or mental giant so the best I can do is read the Bible and inspect what I expect in the teachings I'm given.

 

[sentipente]

Stormy said because God didn't write the Bible it isn't the Word of God, nor can we be sure what's in the Bible is even correct.

I don't think the purpose of the Bible is to come up with a list of facts. The book is best used to find a way of making sense out life. The church has erred in using it to create dogma as if there will be a final multiple choice test at the end of life which we must pass.

Inasmuch . . .

That is more important.

 

[StormyOne]

You can tell me that you play basketball better then Michael Jorden but if your only evidence is conjecture the buy-in will be weak. If you offer evidence in the way of testimoney from others along with video footage of your moves then you are offering more then conjecture.

evidence can be manufactured... as can video footage... have you not seen the spectacular catch by a young girl? here it is: http://youtube.com/watch?v=4SqJz0NgnnE and it is fake.....so then if those are offered you will have been duped...

I'm fine with not throwing Bible verses around and can deal with this just using logic so if that works for you lets roll with it. State your premise on why or why not the Sabbath has been sanctified not using Scripture quotes, Sacred Tradition or secular history. I'll be right behind you with my answer.

The sabbath is only important to those who believe that the ten commands be "kept" explicitly... most will be hard pressed to provide evidence of God sanctifying a day (whatever that might mean), and that he meant for it to be observed a certain way forever.... as I have said before, its a moot point....

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The sabbath is only important to those who believe that the ten commands be "kept" explicitly... most will be hard pressed to provide evidence of God sanctifying a day (whatever that might mean), and that he meant for it to be observed a certain way forever.... as I have said before, its a moot point....

Since I'm still new around here, I haven't seen you make this point before. I think you have made some important points. For example, I've never understood the basis of the SDA teaching that sabbatarians will be sealed and non-sabbatarians will receive the mark of the beast. I wonder whether this contradicts the SDA claim that salvation is by grace through faith and whether SDAism has ever considered the possibility that man has already been sealed.

BFA

 

[sentipente]

the SDA claim that salvation is by grace through faith and whether SDAism has ever considered the possibility that man has already been sealed.

BFA

Christianity generally has a problem accepting that man has already been saved, much less sealed. Adventism only enlarges the fundamental problem that Christianity finds itself in.

 

[Avonia]

Since I'm still new around here, I haven't seen you make this point before. I think you have made some important points. For example, I've never understood the basis of the SDA teaching that sabbatarians will be sealed and non-sabbatarians will receive the mark of the beast. I wonder whether this contradicts the SDA claim that salvation is by grace through faith and whether SDAism has ever considered the possibility that man has already been sealed.

BFA

Good luck with this - if you figure it out, can you let us know?

 

[StormyOne]

Since I'm still new around here, I haven't seen you make this point before. I think you have made some important points. For example, I've never understood the basis of the SDA teaching that sabbatarians will be sealed and non-sabbatarians will receive the mark of the beast. I wonder whether this contradicts the SDA claim that salvation is by grace through faith and whether SDAism has ever considered the possibility that man has already been sealed.

BFA

First, I think the seal is something done by God who knows something like the Holy Spirit influencing the person to be more like God or whatever.... character traits..... more like God vs less like God, but I am still open to other possibilities... Secondly, you have to look at how this belief came to be, paranoid followers trying to find their reason to be... that's how I look at it... and given that at one time there was some persecution for not working on the Sabbath, I can see how they could believe it... the problem now of course is that even at adventist run institutions they have employees working on Sabbath..... so how can you require your employees to do something you have said will lead to the mark of the beast?

 

[Pythons]

How can Christianity be the true religion when it is only two thousand years old and is based on manuscripts that are much older? Why would the Creator preserve these wonderful manuscripts for the benefit of Christianity all these years, as is claimed, yet leave the people of that period without the true religion. He can't be that inefficient.

Christianity became the true religion after God relagated Judaism to the trash heap. Jesus, esentially, replaced "The Law" that had operated since the Exodus. Christianity is the true religion because it sprang out of Judaism which itself came from the faith of Abraham. A solid chain of custody that spans thousands of years.

 

[sentipente]

Christianity became the true religion after God relagated Judaism to the trash heap. Jesus, esentially, replaced "The Law" that had operated since the Exodus. Christianity is the true religion because it sprang out of Judaism which itself came from the faith of Abraham. A solid chain of custody that spans thousands of years.

Where do you hear God saying He has relegated Judaism to the trash heap? Was he not serious when He established an EVERLASTING covenant with Abraham and His seed? Or, was everlasting devalued. Why would you trust what Christianity has to say about Judaism?

 

[Pythons]

Where do you hear God saying He has relegated Judaism to the trash heap? Was he not serious when He established an EVERLASTING covenant with Abraham and His seed? Or, was everlasting devalued. Why would you trust what Christianity has to say about Judaism?

"Decayeth" is just an old fashioned way of saying something that was once alive is going through the process of putrification. In Biblical times when things died the Jews threw them in the trash heap. The New Testament (Hebrews 8,13) identifies this putridity as the Old Covenant;

And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, who are all of here alive this day.

"All Israel" at the time Moses spoke these words meant Judaism. The covenant spoken of by the Apostle in Hebrews is the covenant God made with the Children of Israel.

Reading Deut 5 one can conclude that this Covenant wasn't issued to the "Fathers" of the Children of Israel because Moses clearly says so and further states that the covenant was gave to those standing there listening to him speak. Moses then launches into "The Law".

Abraham "wasn't" a Jew so the Everlasting Covenant God made with Abraham was not broken as Abraham is the Father of Jews and Arabs. Abraham is not Jewish or Arab yet is the Father of both. Jesus cements the everlasting Covenant bringing "all" into it.

I forget the thread I went into this but went into greater detail about how Christ slaughtered the Sabbath. The Sabbath was a sign between God and the Children of Israel so prior to Christ bringing the whole world into the everlasting Covenant He killed that which stood in the way (The Law ).

I believe the Christian Faith is the One True Religion and have faith in Christ, His Church and the Sacred Scriptures. This is why I believe.

 

[sentipente]

"Decayeth" is just an old fashioned way of saying something that was once alive is going through the process of putrification. In Biblical times when things died the Jews threw them in the trash heap. The New Testament (Hebrews 8,13) identifies this putridity as the Old Covenant;

But that is a claim being made by the same group that wants to take over. Why would you accept their claim when there is no prophecy mandating this "decay?"

 

[StormyOne]

But that is a claim being made by the same group that wants to take over. Why would you accept their claim when there is no prophecy mandating this "decay?"

this reminds me of a quote by John Wayne.... he said:

“I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves.”

 

[sentipente]

this reminds me of a quote by John Wayne.... he said:

And that quote is not much different from what Pythons said above:

I believe the Christian Faith is the One True Religion and have faith in Christ, His Church and the Sacred Scriptures. This is why I believe.

 

[Pythons]

But that is a claim being made by the same group that wants to take over. Why would you accept their claim when there is no prophecy mandating this "decay?"

But if you or your sons turn away from me and do not observe the commands and decrees I have given you and go off to serve other gods and worship them, then I will cut off Israel from the land I have given them and will reject this temple I have consecrated for my Name.

Israel will then become a byword and an object of ridicule among all peoples. And though this temple is now imposing, all who pass by will be appalled and will scoff and say, 'Why has the LORD done such a thing to this land and to this temple?' People will answer, 'Because they have forsaken the LORD their God, who brought their fathers out of Egypt, and have embraced other gods, worshiping and serving them—that is why the LORD brought all this disaster on them.

No Temple = No burnt offerings = cut off. Judaism can't just build a new Temple in another area. It's a one shot deal. Just as a limb that has been cut off from the body, Judaism began to rot at the point all power in heaven and on earth was given to Christ.

 

[StormyOne]

Christ already had the power of heaven and earth, so why did it have to be given to him?

 

[Pythons]

Because a will does not take effect until somebody has died. Christ is the mediator of a New Covenant and when this New Covenant took effect the Old Covenant began to rot.

Jesus came to them and said, "ALL Authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

The chain of custody goes like this.

Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father sent me, I am sending you.'

Trinity 101. The Father sends the Son and the Father and Son send the Holy Spirit.

 

[StormyOne]

Because a will does not take effect until somebody has died. Christ is the mediator of a New Covenant and when this New Covenant took effect the Old Covenant began to rot.



The chain of custody goes like this.



Trinity 101. The Father sends the Son and the Father and Son send the Holy Spirit.

interesting.... thanks for sharing....