When something has been sanctified.

[sentipente]

If the passover is a non-issue, the seventh-day sabbath must also be a non-issue. I don't see how one could conclude that one endures and the other does not.

BFA

The obvious answer may be that one is expressly addressed in the TC and the other is not.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The obvious answer may be that one is expressly addressed in the TC and the other is not.

To whom were the TC given?
To whom was the sabbath given?
For what purposes was the sabbath given?
Are the ten commandments authoritative and, if so, authoritative for whom?
If not one jot or tittle is to pass from the law until all is accomplished, how can we conclude that one jot and tittle can pass but another remain?

BFA

 

[sentipente]

To whom were the TC given?
To whom was the sabbath given?
For what purposes was the sabbath given?
Are the ten commandments authoritative and, if so, authoritative for whom?
If not one jot or tittle is to pass from the law until all is accomplished, how can we conclude that one jot and tittle can pass but another remain?

BFA

I await your answers to those questions.

 

[StormyOne]

I'm not sure how other Christian Religions teach the difference but in Catholic Church a moral command isn't subject to change, ever. Natural Law or Moral law would be those laws that a person is commanded by nature to observe, such as honoring your parents, not stealing, murder, etc.

Ceremonial commands are always activated by times and seasons such as observing a certain feast or observance of a Sabbath. Because a person isn't commanded by nature to observe a Sabbath like they are commanded by nature to "not steal" one can be positive that a Sabbath isn't a moral command. It fails on all counts as Adam nor anyone after Adam up to the time of Moses observed a Sabbath while everyone from Adam on knew it was wrong to murder, steal, etc.

Work does not go against the nature of God. In the Genesis account and up to Moses the Sabbath is described as belonging to God. "Tomorrow is a Sabbath to God", etc, etc.

In Jewish understanding Adam and Eve were created and sinned on the 6th day and thrown out of the Garden "prior" to entering the Rest of God. This is not a new understanding it's as old as the book of Lev. This is why Scripture describes the Sabbath as "God's Rest".

Ex 16,23

Ex 16, 25, etc.


In the New Testament Scriptures we are told that the New Heaven and Earth does not have night. Sabbath was ment to be perpetual and our first parents were created in "live in it". This is what Jesus means when He says that we find "Rest" in Him. At least that's my take on it.

since God did not write the bible, and it is man who has come up with the various descriptions for these "laws," what makes any of this meaningful for us here and now?

 

[Pythons]

since God did not write the bible, and it is man who has come up with the various descriptions for these "laws," what makes any of this meaningful for us here and now?

God wrote the Bible through man and while what we read was put in the various individuals words, God inspired those individuals to write it. It is therefore very meaningful for everyone past, present and future. Think of it as God 'speaking to us'.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

since God did not write the bible, and it is man who has come up with the various descriptions for these "laws," what makes any of this meaningful for us here and now?

It helps to answer the question whether the sabbath was ever meant for modern Gentile believers or for modern, new covenant Jewish believers. Most Christian groups who advocate for the observance of the seventh-day sabbath make the claim that the old covenant law was divided into two or more parts (often referred to as "moral" and "ceremonial"). If there is no confirmation that God ever intended such a division, one might wonder why anyone would simultaneously claim that (1) the seventh-day sabbath is an issue and (2) the passover is a non-issue.

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

God wrote the Bible through man and while what we read was put in the various individuals words, God inspired those individuals to write it. It is therefore very meaningful for everyone past, present and future. Think of it as God 'speaking to us'.

God did not need man to write anything if he were so inclined.... I disagree that it is meaningful for our past, present and future.... if what you say is true, i.e. think of it as God speaking to us, then God certainly has a mental illness, is prone to violence and cannot make up his mind... sorry but I disagree with you premise.....

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I await your answers to those questions.

To whom were the TC given?

To the sons of Israel with whom He made the covenant at Sinai and to all Jews who lived thereafter until the Seed came.

To whom was the sabbath given?

The sabbath was given as a sign between God and the sons of Israel.

For what purposes was the sabbath given?

It was given as a reminder that the sons of Israel were slaves in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD your God brought them out of the Egypt by a mighty hand and an outstretched arm.

Are the ten commandments authoritative?

They were to the sons of Israel.

If not one jot or tittle is to pass from the law until all is accomplished, how can we conclude that one jot and tittle can pass but another remain?

We cannot.

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

It helps to answer the question whether the sabbath was ever meant for modern Gentile believers or for modern, new covenant Jewish believers. Most Christian groups who advocate for the observance of the seventh-day sabbath make the claim that the old covenant law was divided into two or more parts (often referred to as "moral" and "ceremonial"). If there is no confirmation that God ever intended such a division, one might wonder why anyone would simultaneously claim that (1) the seventh-day sabbath is an issue and (2) the passover is a non-issue.

BFA

it only becomes relevant IF one believes that the bible must be a guidebook for a person's life..... I submit that the bible cannot and should not be used as a guidebook for one's life....

 

[Byfaithalone1]

it only becomes relevant IF one believes that the bible must be a guidebook for a person's life..... I submit that the bible cannot and should not be used as a guidebook for one's life....

Should a person set aside the seventh-day for the purpose of rest? If so, why?

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

Should a person set aside the seventh-day for the purpose of rest? If so, why?

BFA

Should? the word "should" suggests that there is an absolute, is that what you are looking for? Black and white on this issue?

A person should resist the urge to work themselves to death.... likewise a person should be what they are... human....

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Should? the word "should" suggests that there is an absolute, is that what you are looking for? Black and white on this issue?

What I'm looking for is your understanding of and approach to the seventh-day sabbath. What I am not looking for is something black and white.

BTW--I would understand MUST to be much more black-and-white than SHOULD.

A person should resist the urge to work themselves to death.... likewise a person should be what they are... human....

How does this relate to the sabbath? Do you believe that resting one day out of seven would keep a man from working himself to death? Do you believe that there is a spiritual significance to such a day of rest?

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

What I'm looking for is your understanding of and approach to the seventh-day sabbath. What I am not looking for is something black and white.

I have already given it.... people can use the 7th day as a day of rest from working....

BTW--I would understand MUST to be much more black-and-white than SHOULD.

if that works for you fine....

How does this relate to the sabbath? Do you believe that resting one day out of seven would keep a man from working himself to death?

Should a man set aside one day out of seven for the purpose of rest? If so, why?

BFA

resting can prevent people from working 24/7 and there are some studies which would suggest that it is not healthy to work all the time and never take a break.....

A man should do whatever they think they is in their best interest..... as most work weeks are configured nowadays people get 2 days to rest.... you looking for a rule you can set in stone? While you say you aren't looking for a black and white rule it seems that you just might be..... are you getting frustrated with my answers?

 

[StormyOne]

How does this relate to the sabbath? Do you believe that resting one day out of seven would keep a man from working himself to death? Do you believe that there is a spiritual significance to such a day of rest?

BFA

spiritual significance? what does that mean? man is not a spirit so anything spiritual would have meaning to a spirit... I think its difficult to let go of theobabble isn't it......

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I have already given it.... people can use the 7th day as a day of rest from working....

Here's the point I'm not following - - - - Is there any particular significance to the seventh day, or would you also use the 3rd day as an equally appropriate day of rest in lieu of the seventh? Let's say you had to work on the seventh day, could you substitute the third day as a day to rest from working?

resting can prevent people from working 24/7 and there are some studies which would suggest that it is not healthy to work all the time and never take a break.....

Well, I would certainly never ask a person to give up his day of rest. I am only trying to understand what special significance (if any) you attach to your day of rest (if you have one).

you looking for a rule you can set in stone?

Not at all. I'm simply trying to understand any special significance you may attach to the seventh day of the week. I am not looking for a rule that I can set in stone.

While you say you aren't looking for a black and white rule it seems that you just might be

I can assure you that I am not.

..... are you getting frustrated with my answers?

Not at all.

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

Here's the point I'm not following - - - - Is there any particular spiritual or other significance to the seventh day, or can people use the 3rd day as an equally appropriate alternate day of rest??

spiritual significance, you seem to like the phrase though who knows what it means.... people can choose to rest whenever they want....

Well, I would certainly never ask a person to give up his day of rest. I am only trying to understand what spiritual significance (if any) you attach to your day of rest (if you have one).

spiritual significance.... a vague, nebulous and meaningless term.....

Not at all. I'm simply trying to understand any special significance you may attach to the seventh day of the week. I am not look for a rule that I can set in stone.

BFA

have I ever suggested that there is something special about the 7th day? I have said, it can be used as a day of rest... and rest is what I choose to do....

 

[Byfaithalone1]

spiritual significance

One might suggest that the sabbath had spiritual significance to the sons of Israel as the sabbath was a sign of a covenant between God and Israel. That was the type of concept that I was contemplating when I included the phrase.

have I ever suggested that there is something special about the 7th day? I have said, it can be used as a day of rest... and rest is what I choose to do....

If the demands of your occupation required you to work on the seventh day, would you feel comfortable working on the seventh day and then substituting the third day as your day of rest for that week?

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

One might suggest that the sabbath had spiritual significance to the sons of Israel as the sabbath was a sign of a covenant between God and Israel. That was the type of concept that I was contemplating when I included the phrase.



If the demands of your occupation required you to work on the seventh day, would you feel comfortable working on the seventh day and then substituting the third day as your day of rest for that week?

BFA

I have had jobs in which my "weekend" was Tues and Weds, or Weds and Thurs, and I rested when my "weekend" arrived..... if you read the directive it simply says, work 6 days, rest on the 7th.... it does not say you must work Sun thru Fri and rest on Sabbath..... though some have made it to say just that....

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I have had jobs in which my "weekend" was Tues and Weds, or Weds and Thurs, and I rested when my "weekend" arrived..... if you read the directive it simply says, work 6 days, rest on the 7th.... it does not say you must work Sun thru Fri and rest on Sabbath..... though some have made it to say just that....

OK. Got it. Thanks for being patient with my questions. I certainly share your view that rest remains important for man.

BFA

 

[Pythons]

God did not need man to write anything if he were so inclined.... I disagree that it is meaningful for our past, present and future.... if what you say is true, i.e. think of it as God speaking to us, then God certainly has a mental illness, is prone to violence and cannot make up his mind... sorry but I disagree with you premise.....

As a Catholic, I can believe anything I want provided what I believe does not go against Catholic teaching. Because Catholicism says Sacred Scripture is inspired by God I must accept it. Granted there are some things in Sacred Scripture that leave my mouth hanging open but I let those issues rest with the Church.