When something has been sanctified.

[StormyOne]

That would be a big YES. I'm using the terms savage and pagan. A person who has never heard of Jesus and worships a frog is no less a child of God then the Pope. The point remains that a person who thinks a modern aircraft is an evil spirit knows it's wrong to steal while oblivious that there is anything 'special' about Saturday.

Are you suggesting that a Saturday Sabbath is "moral" or "natural law"?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/30/world/main4137506.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_4137506

then you and I disagree... God created humankind, so regardless of what they worship they still belong to him... we are all God's children.... it is because people don't believe this that we have all the madness in this world....

 

[moicherie]

then you and I disagree... God created humankind, so regardless of what they worship they still belong to him... we are all God's children.... it is because people don't believe this that we have all the madness in this world....

ITA its because of the use of such labels - pagan and savage, that justified the so called civilisied world imperialist actions on 'weaker' nations.
Its harder to treat someone like a brother or sister when you see them as a pagan/savage.

 

[Avonia]

Would you consider a Roman who served in the Roman Senate "a Savage"?

My purpose is to clarify, for the sake of other readers, your use of both words.

If we are talking about barbarous/cruel behavior, the most civilized people have often been the most barbarous/cruel as they acted against the human race in combination with high technology. With increased capacity comes increased accountability.

If we are talking about savage as in tribal, this should not hold a negative connotation. As an example, the leaders of remote indigenous groups in the Amazon region of Ecuador (Achuar) are coming out of isolation to speak out on issues affecting the planet - especially the rain forests. Because of their work through the Pachamama Alliance, we've been able to learn a lot about their culture. They have a deep spiritual tradition - people from around the world are now traveling there to learn from them.

The word "pagan" is often used in reference to anyone outside of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. The word is also used in reference to people living outside of metropolitan areas - country dwellers. It is also used in a more derogatory way when referencing people, especially polytheists, that some Christians view as unsaved. These uses are all common.

Although you know your intent, the request for clarification is on behalf of all of us who do not know your intent.

 

[Pythons]

then you and I disagree... God created humankind, so regardless of what they worship they still belong to him... we are all God's children.... it is because people don't believe this that we have all the madness in this world....

Perhaps you missed the following 7 posts ago;

A person who has never heard of Jesus and worships a frog is no less a child of God then the Pope.

Attempting to switch the truth with political correctness continues to nurture all the madness in this world.

My purpose is to clarify, for the sake of other readers, your use of both words.

I appreciate that.

If we are talking about barbarous/cruel behavior, the most civilized people have often been the most barbarous/cruel as they acted against the human race in combination with high technology. With increased capacity comes increased accountability.

That's not what we are talking about. The fact that "every" civilized Nation is guilty of atrocity is irrelevant to the fact that MORAL or NATURAL LAW currently exists and existed within savage tribes and pagan societies such as the pre-Christian Greeks and Romans. The point still stands that a member of a "Tribe" in Ecuador knows instinctively that it's wrong to steal yet does not know "instictively" there is anything different about a Saturday Sabbath. The OP suggests that the Sabbath is a 'moral' command. I'm contending it's not.

 

[StormyOne]

Perhaps you missed the following 7 posts ago;



Attempting to switch the truth with political correctness continues to nurture all the madness in this world.





I appreciate that.



That's not what we are talking about. The fact that "every" civilized Nation is guilty of atrocity is irrelevant to the fact that MORAL or NATURAL LAW currently exists and existed within savage tribes and pagan societies such as the pre-Christian Greeks and Romans. The point still stands that a member of a "Tribe" in Ecuador knows instinctively that it's wrong to steal yet does not know "instictively" there is anything different about a Saturday Sabbath. The OP suggests that the Sabbath is a 'moral' command. I'm contending it's not.

I didn't miss anything, yet you refuse to acknowledge that everything that God has created belongs to him.... that is not politically correct, it is a simple fact....

 

[sentipente]

The OP suggests that the Sabbath is a 'moral' command. I'm contending it's not.

Agreed! Calling the Ten Sayings the moral law complicates matters.

 

[Pythons]

Agreed! Calling the Ten Sayings the moral law complicates matters.

Yes, appears you are the only one other then me who can see it.

I didn't miss anything, yet you refuse to acknowledge that everything that God has created belongs to him.... that is not politically correct, it is a simple fact....

Do you believe your contention is anwering the OP and my provided answers?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The OP suggests that the Sabbath is a 'moral' command. I'm contending it's not.

I agree. And--while we're at it--what is the basis of this idea that God's commands were separated into "the moral law" and "the ___ law" (insert "ceremonial," "ritual," "Mosaic" or "sacrificial")?

BFA

 

[Pythons]

I agree. And--while we're at it--what is the basis of this idea that God's commands were separated into "the moral law" and "the ___ law" (insert "ceremonial," "ritual," "Mosaic" or "sacrificial")?

BFA

Good to see ya BFA! You're right,there was ONE LAW and if one feels the need they can say which ones are moral and which are ceremonial. Suggesting that the Sabbath was / is a moral command demonstrates an ignorance in what a moral command is.

 

[StormyOne]

Good to see ya BFA! You're right,there was ONE LAW and if one feels the need they can say which ones are moral and which are ceremonial. Suggesting that the Sabbath was / is a moral command demonstrates an ignorance in what a moral command is.

is it demonstrating an ignorance when some believe that all of us, all humankind does not belong to God?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

is it demonstrating an ignorance when some believe that all of us, all humankind does not belong to God?

Is it possible to be "lost?" Does a "lost" person belong to God now? Will a "lost" person ever cease to belong to God?

BFA

 

[Pythons]

is it demonstrating an ignorance when some believe that all of us, all humankind does not belong to God?

According to Christ, at some point, 'some of the all' are given to the other guy! I'm sorry, PC is not the answer.

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

 

[sentipente]

Pythons, Jesus also said that people in hell speak to people in paradise. We need to consider the audience to whom He was speaking and the presuppositions they brought to the discussion. The Creator has never given His property over to anyone; certainly not to a usurper. People who were deceived cannot belong to the person who deceived them under any system of justice.

 

[sentipente]

Is it possible to be "lost?" Does a "lost" person belong to God now? Will a "lost" person ever cease to belong to God?

BFA

I notice you placed lost in quotes. What special meaning are you giving the word that is not normally attached to it? Could it be you have recognized that no one who is truly ever does not want to be rescued?

 

[StormyOne]

According to Christ, at some point, 'some of the all' are given to the other guy! I'm sorry, PC is not the answer.

no one is being PC, though it is not surprising that you feel the need to use labels.....

Here is another clue, "the other guy" he belongs to God too....

 

[StormyOne]

Is it possible to be "lost?" Does a "lost" person belong to God now? Will a "lost" person ever cease to belong to God?

BFA

when you have a child does that child ever cease being your child? Nothing your child does will ever result in them ceasing to be your child.... christians give God a bad name with some of the foolishness it spreads....

 

[Pythons]

Pythons, Jesus also said that people in hell speak to people in paradise. We need to consider the audience to whom He was speaking and the presuppositions they brought to the discussion. The Creator has never given His property over to anyone; certainly not to a usurper. People who were deceived cannot belong to the person who deceived them under any system of justice.

People in hell did speak to people in paradise prior to Jesus moving "paradise" to be where He currently is (heaven).. As for property humans are free agents and able to choose who their master is. Property equates to slavery when property becomes an adjective for a person.

no one is being PC, though it is not surprising that you feel the need to use labels.....

Here is another clue, "the other guy" he belongs to God too....

My definition of political correctness = beliving you can pick up a turd from the clean end. It simply fails to work. Humans are free agents and can follow God or the Devil.

The great dragon was hurled down - that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, WHO LEADS the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth and his angels with him.

The only way it can be said that someone leads is if they are FOLLOWED. A person who selects to follow Satan need only not follow Christ to pull it off. God does not have puppet strings on us, we choose who to follow and if we were born prior to Christ or have yet to be instructed in the Christian Religion then we are judged by "Moral" or "Natural Law". The OP of this thread boasts the Saturday Sabbath is a command people know instinctively (natural law) and given the goose chase you've initiated I'm under the impression you also believe the Saturday Sabbath is a moral law and instead of meeting my premise on the battlefield you've taken us here. I ask why?

 

[StormyOne]

People in hell did speak to people in paradise prior to Jesus moving "paradise" to be where He currently is (heaven).. As for property humans are free agents and able to choose who their master is. Property equates to slavery when property becomes an adjective for a person.




My definition of political correctness = beliving you can pick up a turd from the clean end. It simply fails to work. Humans are free agents and can follow God or the Devil.



The only way it can be said that someone leads is if they are FOLLOWED. A person who selects to follow Satan need only not follow Christ to pull it off. God does not have puppet strings on us, we choose who to follow and if we were born prior to Christ or have yet to be instructed in the Christian Religion then we are judged by "Moral" or "Natural Law". The OP of this thread boasts the Saturday Sabbath is a command people know instinctively (natural law) and given the goose chase you've initiated I'm under the impression you also believe the Saturday Sabbath is a moral law and instead of meeting my premise on the battlefield you've taken us here. I ask why?

thanks for sharing Pythons, I do not share your view... it is clear we are on two different pages..... take care....

 

[Pythons]

thanks for sharing Pythons, I do not share your view... it is clear we are on two different pages..... take care....

You too Stormy. Care to answer the OP's question if Saturday is a moral command?

 

[StormyOne]

You too Stormy. Care to answer the OP's question if Saturday is a moral command?

one would have to define moral, and the directive for man to rest on the 7th day was for man's benefit so he would not work himself to death... it is not a test, a sign of loyalty, the seal of God or all the other things some have attached to it...