When political agenda trumps ethics and morals.

[Robert65]

When agenda trumps ethics.

I am disappointed with Christian conservatives. The reason is that they have lied to me my whole life. I was indoctrinated as a child to believe that a good Christian holds themselves to the highest ethical standards. Yet today I see them largely abandon those ethical standards and support an amoral President. Politics is Machiavellian in that the ends justify the means. In this case the ends is the furthering of a conservative political agenda and the means is by abandoning previously espoused ethical standards to support an amoral man who furthers the conservative political agenda.

I am having a hard time accepting the reality that Christian conservatism is not worthy of the pedestal I was instructed to place it upon. That Christian conservatives are every bit as biased, delusional, dishonest and immoral as the rest of us. Today I see Christianity in general as the same as atheism as I see no evidence to support a claim that Christians are in general any more moral than nonbelievers. Coming to this conclusion has upset a belief that I have held since around 1970.

The thought that there was a social moral anchor based in Christian theology, that helped the masses resist their baser nature, I now see either never truly existed or has since been abandoned. My mind struggles to accept this new reality in which even Christians have unevenly applied standards, abandon said standard when it is advantageous to do so and many of which are more hypocritical than I, a nonbeliever.

The mind prefers a stable and satisfying reality and and is plunged into an existential crisis when this delicate balance is upset. Mine is very upset! Yet in time I know that my mind will come to accept this new and currently disturbing reality and find a way to acclimate to it... hopefully in a satisfying manner.

As always, to those Christians who religiously practice what they preach, you have my respect and I look up to you as my moral and ethical superiors. If you support Trump, you are not one of those people. This does not mean that I do not like you, but I am disappointed by your placing political loyalty over rigorously practicing the principles exemplified by Christ. Giving Trump a pass for doing that which you would lambaste a liberal for is hypocritical.

Practice what you preach else continue to watch your religion decline, down 25 percentage points since the late 1990’s.

 

[Albion]

When agenda trumps ethics.

I am disappointed with Christian conservatives. The reason is that they have lied to me my whole life. I was indoctrinated as a child to believe that a good Christian holds themselves to the highest ethical standards. Yet today I see them largely abandon those ethical standards and support an amoral President.

I suppose that that depends on two things: 1) IS he "amoral" or not? It looks like this is a personal opinion or else it's what a certain faction of the political world has been pedaling for its own benefit.

And then 2) what does "support" mean? Does it mean that they do not favor overthrowing the decision of the voters in 2016? If they feel honor bound to respect the results of the election, why would that be to "abandon...ethical standards?" It could be just the opposite!

 

[mkgal1]

I just finished watching this documentary ----->

.....and, at the heart of it, I think it relates well to what you're saying. Conservatives largely believe in a rapture - which has to do with one group getting preferential treatment over another. In this documentary it was stated that when a person's main concern is only that His kingdom comes they can abandon their morals to love the people that live in the land (that was said at about 1:08.26 - I'm paraphrasing). I believe Jesus made it very clear that that's NOT how His kingdom "works". Instead - His kingdom is ruled by love and equality.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I was indoctrinated as a child to believe that a good Christian holds themselves to the highest ethical standards.

Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” Luke 18:9-14

 

[Albion]

I just finished watching this documentary ----->

.....and, at the heart of it, I think it relates well to what you're saying. Conservatives largely believe in a rapture - which has to do with one group getting preferential treatment over another.

Factually, that's incorrect. There are conservatives in every Christian denomination as well as no denomination...and the Evangelical fringe of Protestantism that makes a lot out of the "rapture" idea is relatively small.

 

[GACfan]

When agenda trumps ethics.

I am disappointed with Christian conservatives. The reason is that they have lied to me my whole life. I was indoctrinated as a child to believe that a good Christian holds themselves to the highest ethical standards. Yet today I see them largely abandon those ethical standards and support an amoral President. Politics is Machiavellian in that the ends justify the means. In this case the ends is the furthering of a conservative political agenda and the means is by abandoning previously espoused ethical standards to support an amoral man who furthers the conservative political agenda.

I am having a hard time accepting the reality that Christian conservatism is not worthy of the pedestal I was instructed to place it upon. That Christian conservatives are every bit as biased, delusional, dishonest and immoral as the rest of us. Today I see Christianity in general as the same as atheism as I see no evidence to support a claim that Christians are in general any more moral than nonbelievers. Coming to this conclusion has upset a belief that I have held since around 1970.

The thought that there was a social moral anchor based in Christian theology, that helped the masses resist their baser nature, I now see either never truly existed or has since been abandoned. My mind struggles to accept this new reality in which even Christians have unevenly applied standards, abandon said standard when it is advantageous to do so and many of which are more hypocritical than I, a nonbeliever.

The mind prefers a stable and satisfying reality and and is plunged into an existential crisis when this delicate balance is upset. Mine is very upset! Yet in time I know that my mind will come to accept this new and currently disturbing reality and find a way to acclimate to it... hopefully in a satisfying manner.

As always, to those Christians who religiously practice what they preach, you have my respect and I look up to you as my moral and ethical superiors. If you support Trump, you are not one of those people. This does not mean that I do not like you, but I am disappointed by your placing political loyalty over rigorously practicing the principles exemplified by Christ. Giving Trump a pass for doing that which you would lambaste a liberal for is hypocritical.

Practice what you preach else continue to watch your religion decline, down 25 percentage points since the late 1990’s.

Well said. Great post.

 

[JackRT]

When agenda trumps ethics.

The third word in that sentence seems crucial. This single individual may entirely change both religion and politics in the USA and it does not look hopeful at all to me. Your post expressed it perfectly.

 

[mkgal1]

Factually, that's incorrect. There are conservatives in every Christian denomination as well as no denomination...and the Evangelical fringe of Protestantism that makes a lot out of the "rapture" idea is relatively small.

Then I'm unsure of how to label this variety of evangelicalism (other than saying, "Trump supporting/geopolitical Israel supporting/rapture believers").

 

[bekkilyn]

I suppose that that depends on two things: 1) IS he "amoral" or not? It looks like this is a personal opinion or else it's what a certain faction of the political world has been pedaling for its own benefit.

And then 2) what does "support" mean? Does it mean that they do not favor overthrowing the decision of the voters in 2016? If they feel honor bound to respect the results of the election, why would that be to "abandon...ethical standards?" It could be just the opposite!

You mean the decision of the electoral college. The decision of the *voters* was for Hillary.

If things like grabbing women's kittens, cheating on one's spouses (plural), making fun of the disabled and veterans killed in service, habitually lying multiple times per day, and the list goes on is considered to be MORAL, then Trump is either one of the most moral people who ever lived, or he's actually either amoral or immoral. I'm not sure he's smart enough to be immoral though, so it's probably amoral.

 

[Robert65]

I suppose that that depends on two things: 1) IS he "amoral" or not? It looks like this is a personal opinion or else it's what a certain faction of the political world has been pedaling for its own benefit.

And then 2) what does "support" mean? Does it mean that they do not favor overthrowing the decision of the voters in 2016? If they feel honor bound to respect the results of the election, why would that be to "abandon...ethical standards?" It could be just the opposite!

Trump lies so much that I do not take anything he says at face value. Hard to argue that a habitual liar is anything other than amoral. Those with a moral footing have remorse when they lie and do all they can to cease the behavior. Then there is his name calling and generally antagonistic behavior. Hard to tie that to a moral code of conduct. Paying off women in the adult entertainment industry for their silence. Not the act of a moral code I recognize. I could go on but think I have made my point.

By supporter, I mean that if Clinton were president and called upon a foreign leader to investigate a prominent Republican who she may run against in the next election, you know as well as I that the right would never stand for that. The fact that Christian conservatives give Trump a pass for doing something that if a Democrat did they would lambaste them for is hypocritical.

Christians who defend Trump do so to the detriment of their religion.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Trump lies so much that I do not take anything he says at face value.

Indeed. I sometimes say: If such a person said 2+2=4, I'd pull out my calculator to check.

 

[Albion]

Trump lies so much that I do not take anything he says at face value.

Well, that's your opinion. And it's based on your choice of politicians and news sources. But that doesn't make it anything more.

Other people will go on about how immoral the people who are trying to impeach the president are.

The question you want to investigate--ethics in the political arena--needs more than this.

 

[bekkilyn]

Indeed. I sometimes say: If such a person said 2+2=4, I'd pull out my calculator to check.

Well 2+2 doesn't always equal 4 anyway....

 

[Robert65]

You mean the decision of the electoral college. The decision of the *voters* was for Hillary.

If things like grabbing women's kittens, cheating on one's spouses (plural), making fun of the disabled and veterans killed in service, habitually lying multiple times per day, and the list goes on is considered to be MORAL, then Trump is either one of the most moral people who ever lived, or he's actually either amoral or immoral. I'm not sure he's smart enough to be immoral though, so it's probably amoral.

To me immoral would imply that Trump has some basis in morality. I think morality gets in the way of Trump’s pursuit or power and that power is that which matters most to him. I see nothing to indicate a moral basis within Trump thus my conclusion that he is amoral.

 

[bekkilyn]

Will Trump bring about the end of the world? Evangelicals sure hope so

 

[Robert65]

Well, that's your opinion. And it's based on your choice of politicians and news sources. But that doesn't make it anything more.

Other people will go on about how immoral the people who are trying to impeach the president are.

The question you want to investigate--ethics in the political arena--needs more than this.

MY political views are independent in which I have no loyalty to the leftist or right and the news sources I consume are an amalgam of local, regional, national and international news including partisan news outlets such as Fox News and MSNBC.

My lack of a political affiliation allows me to objectivity examine politics in a way that no partisan can.

 

[Robert65]

Will Trump bring about the end of the world? Evangelicals sure hope so

An interesting and disturbing perspective.

 

[thecolorsblend]

When agenda trumps ethics.

I am disappointed with Christian conservatives. The reason is that they have lied to me my whole life. I was indoctrinated as a child to believe that a good Christian holds themselves to the highest ethical standards. Yet today I see them largely abandon those ethical standards and support an amoral President. Politics is Machiavellian in that the ends justify the means. In this case the ends is the furthering of a conservative political agenda and the means is by abandoning previously espoused ethical standards to support an amoral man who furthers the conservative political agenda.

I am having a hard time accepting the reality that Christian conservatism is not worthy of the pedestal I was instructed to place it upon. That Christian conservatives are every bit as biased, delusional, dishonest and immoral as the rest of us. Today I see Christianity in general as the same as atheism as I see no evidence to support a claim that Christians are in general any more moral than nonbelievers. Coming to this conclusion has upset a belief that I have held since around 1970.

The thought that there was a social moral anchor based in Christian theology, that helped the masses resist their baser nature, I now see either never truly existed or has since been abandoned. My mind struggles to accept this new reality in which even Christians have unevenly applied standards, abandon said standard when it is advantageous to do so and many of which are more hypocritical than I, a nonbeliever.

The mind prefers a stable and satisfying reality and and is plunged into an existential crisis when this delicate balance is upset. Mine is very upset! Yet in time I know that my mind will come to accept this new and currently disturbing reality and find a way to acclimate to it... hopefully in a satisfying manner.

As always, to those Christians who religiously practice what they preach, you have my respect and I look up to you as my moral and ethical superiors. If you support Trump, you are not one of those people. This does not mean that I do not like you, but I am disappointed by your placing political loyalty over rigorously practicing the principles exemplified by Christ. Giving Trump a pass for doing that which you would lambaste a liberal for is hypocritical.

Practice what you preach else continue to watch your religion decline, down 25 percentage points since the late 1990’s.

What I posted in a different (though similar) thread was...

I can kind of understand where Never Trump conservatives (what's left of them, anyway) are coming from. Because respectability or something, idk.

But I don't think non-conservatives have any right to be surprised by President Trump's support, particularly from Christians. These people were told for at least twenty years that they should check their faith at the door, that we elect Presidents rather than pastors or priests. These types of Christians apparently came around to the opposition's way of thinking. So they did not vote for one any of the outspoken Christians in the 2016 primaries. Rather, they voted for the candidate who promised to have their collective back.

Speaking of which, I think it's obvious that these types of Christians are seeking a political bodyguard. These voters have had quite a lot of social change rammed down their throats in the past several years (or decades). They've made no secret of their concerns over "same-sex marriage", unchecked illegal immigration, drug epidemics and so forth. At each step of the way, they were told "you lost, deal with it", "nobody cares about you or your precious little religious freedom", "get over it", etc.

My question for the left is: What did you think would happen? Did you believe that there wouldn't be consequences for any of that? Were you expecting to never pay a price for that type of discourse?

A lot of Christians fear persecution in the future. You can dismiss that as unlikely as much as you want. But that's how a lot of them see it. They're expecting great difficulties in the years to come. Whether or not they're right about that was never the point. In good faith, that's how they see it. And just about the time their concerns were reaching a fever pitch, President Trump presented himself as someone who can move the needle on the issues they care about.

Worse (for the left), they've seen President Trump make genuine advancements on the pro-life cause, immigration and other issues. President Trump has largely validated their decision to vote for him. Do you honestly believe they're less likely to vote for him now than they were back in 2016? Ha!

Worst of all (maybe for all of us), these types of Christians believe that President Trump is shining a light on "the DC establishment", "the elite", "the deep state" or whatever you want to call it. They now see (or think they see) very little relevant difference between Democrats and Republicans. They think politics at this level is a game of touch football, where the two sides pretend to disagree in public but, behind closed doors, pat each other on the back for a job well done in ripping off the American people. Goings on since January 20, 2017 have done NOTHING to change their opinions. On the contrary, they've been reinforced.

Again, it doesn't matter if these Christians are factually right or factually wrong. This is what they believe. And now they see President Trump as a champion for their causes. It's hard to argue that he hasn't advanced their agenda in ways no previous Republican President has even attempted.

No less than the New York Times is admitting that President Trump's base is bigger now than it was even in 2016. If 2020 is a referendum on President Trump's first term, say hello to his second term.

One thing I didn't say in that post is that 2016 demonstrated that the Republican base wasn't as doctrinaire conservative as many had originally assumed. It turns out that the GOP had spent decades peddling fiscal conservatism to a base that either didn't care about it or else outright opposed it.

Since we're talking about matters where the base has changed their mind, demanding one of their own be the party's standard-bearer is hardly the subject on the table. In fact, the long term takeaway lesson from the 2016 election may very well be that the Republican Party has never understood their own base.

 

[Hank77]

I just finished watching this documentary ----->

.....and, at the heart of it, I think it relates well to what you're saying. Conservatives largely believe in a rapture - which has to do with one group getting preferential treatment over another. In this documentary it was stated that when a person's main concern is only that His kingdom comes they can neglect their morals to love the people that live in the land (that was said at about 1:08.26 - I'm paraphrasing). I believe Jesus made it very clear that that's NOT how His kingdom "works". Instead - His kingdom is ruled by love and equality.

Thank you sharing this video, I watched the whole thing and it affirmed other information that I have seen and heard.
But I was shocked that a Christian in Dallas, TX refused to shake hands or speak with a Palestinian Christian. Something very wrong is going on in the church for this to happen.

 

[mkgal1]

Thank you sharing this video, I watched the whole thing and it affirmed other information that I have seen and heard.
But I was shocked that a Christian in Dallas, TX refused to shake hands or speak with a Palestinian Christian. Something very wrong is going on in the church for this to happen.

I agree. And from what I understood, that was after he'd spoken. He should have at least been considered more than just a Palestinian at that point.