• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

When Jesus returns

davetaff

Active Member
Mar 4, 2024
387
65
82
South Wales
✟52,744.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi
When we die we go to sleep and if we are sleeping we are not dead so our body and soul can remain together this is possible because when we are baptised our bodies become spiritual and cannot die so we go to sleep awaiting the resurrection.
When we sleep we are conscience of nothing so it will seam instant transformation into the presence of Christ.

Love and Peace
Dave
 
Upvote 0

David Lamb

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2024
2,852
1,504
76
Paignton
✟63,460.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Hi
When we die we go to sleep and if we are sleeping we are not dead so our body and soul can remain together this is possible because when we are baptised our bodies become spiritual and cannot die so we go to sleep awaiting the resurrection.
When we sleep we are conscience of nothing so it will seam instant transformation into the presence of Christ.

Love and Peace
Dave
So how could Jesus say to the thief, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise"? How could Paul write that he was well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord? What did Stephen mean by praying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit"?
 
Upvote 0

David Lamb

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2024
2,852
1,504
76
Paignton
✟63,460.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
David you said the souls of the dead are in heaven…not yet reunited with our bodies….
I don’t understand why the need to separate our soul from our body?
We are not told precisely why (as far as I am aware - others with greater knowledge of the Scriptures may correct me if I am wrong on that.) We are told that our bodies in which we go to heaven will be glorified bodies. Perhaps that gives us some hint - that our current bodies, with their aches and pains, dying cells etc. are not fit to enter heaven. Sorry not to be able to give a more definite answer.
 
Upvote 0

davetaff

Active Member
Mar 4, 2024
387
65
82
South Wales
✟52,744.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So how could Jesus say to the thief, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise"? How could Paul write that he was well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord? What did Stephen mean by praying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit"?
So how could Jesus say to the thief, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise"? How could Paul write that he was well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord? What did Stephen mean by praying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit"?
Hi David
Thank you for your post but it all depends on what today means when I woke up this morning It was today if I wake up in ten years time it will be today so today can be every day we wake up.
When Christ said this to the thief on the cross he could not mean that day because he could not go to heaven he had to spend it in the grave and the following days so today could mean his return to awaken all believers at the resurrection then it would be today.

Love and Peace
Dave
 
Upvote 0

David Lamb

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2024
2,852
1,504
76
Paignton
✟63,460.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Hi David
Thank you for your post but it all depends on what today means when I woke up this morning It was today if I wake up in ten years time it will be today so today can be every day we wake up.
When Christ said this to the thief on the cross he could not mean that day because he could not go to heaven he had to spend it in the grave and the following days so today could mean his return to awaken all believers at the resurrection then it would be today.

Love and Peace
Dave
Even if, for the moment we accept that today doesn't mean "this day", that doesn't explain Paul's or Stephen's words. Neither of them mentioned "today" but they both talked of departing and being with the Lord.
 
Upvote 0

davetaff

Active Member
Mar 4, 2024
387
65
82
South Wales
✟52,744.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi David
Thank you for your post how about this verse

Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

So it seams every day can be called to day

Love and Peace
Dave
 
Upvote 0

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
10,924
8,984
64
Martinez
✟1,090,701.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi
When we die we go to sleep and if we are sleeping we are not dead so our body and soul can remain together this is possible because when we are baptised our bodies become spiritual and cannot die so we go to sleep awaiting the resurrection.
When we sleep we are conscience of nothing so it will seam instant transformation into the presence of Christ.

Love and Peace
Dave
Consider this:

1 Corinthians 15:50:
"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption."


This verse is part of Paul's discourse on the resurrection. He's explaining that our earthly, perishable bodies ("flesh and blood") are not suited for the imperishable, eternal nature of God's kingdom. We will be transformed and receive new, resurrected bodies that are not subject to decay and death.
Blessings
 
Upvote 0

davetaff

Active Member
Mar 4, 2024
387
65
82
South Wales
✟52,744.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi Maria
Thank you for your post yes what a wonderful time we have ahead of us

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed

This is the only way we can enter the presence of God we must be changed let us pray for that day to come soon what wonderful times we have to look forward to

Love and Peace
Dave
 
  • Like
Reactions: Semper-Fi
Upvote 0

Semper-Fi

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 26, 2019
1,957
842
Pacific north west
✟549,779.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So [David slept] with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.

15As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness:
I shall be satisfied, when I [King David] awake, with [thy likeness].
 
Upvote 0

Semper-Fi

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 26, 2019
1,957
842
Pacific north west
✟549,779.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So how could Jesus say to the thief, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise"?
How could Jesus be in Paradise when he was dead and buried in the
grave for 3 days and 3 nights, before He was raised by the Father?

Matthew 13:34 (KJV)
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables;
and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Mark 4:34 (KJV)
But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when
they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Jesus was in front of a crowd, that wanted Him dead. Jesus very
well could have spoken a parable/hidden [when event] would occur.

The Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable.

Jesus made many parables leading up to chapter 16 in Luke.
Luke 16:14 Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees , who were
covetous, heard all these things[parables]: and they derided him.

Paradise

Jesus could have meant I'm telling you today, you will be with
Me in Paradise, [a future time] and a place, [not even made yet].

Even many of Gods prophets and apostles did not know the
timing to certain events like in Acts 1:6-7 or Daniel 12.

"paradise" G3857
παράδεισος
paradeisos
par-ad'-i-sos
Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically)
an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.
Total KJV occurrences: 3

"compare" H6508
פַּרְדֵּס
pardês
par-dace'
Of foreign origin; a park: - forest, orchard.
Total KJV occurrences: 3 Luke 23:43

Paradise is connected to [Eden], a garden of Gods, and also
it is connected to the tree of life; both will be on this earth.

occurrence #2 future event in Revelation 2:7 (KJV)

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto
the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of
the tree of life, which is in the midst of [the paradise of God].

Revelation 22:2 (KJV)
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river,
was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits,
and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree
were for the healing of the nations.

Revelation 22:14 (KJV)
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have
right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Future event Isaiah 51:3 (KJV) God will make A garden on earth in Jerusalem,
might be in the very same location as the first garden in Eden in Geneses.

For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places;
and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden
of the LORD ; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving,
and the voice of melody.

-
Past event in Genesis 2:8 (KJV)

And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden;
and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Genesis 2:10 (KJV)
And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and
from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

occurrence # 3

2 Corinthians 12:1-5 (KJV)
how that he was caught up into paradise, and heard
unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

In this verses Paul, in [a vision] could not tell if he was in
the body or out of the body, or if it was even a real. event

Jesus Christ does bring our rewards with Him Isaiah 40:10

Isaiah 28:10 (KJV)
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

-
The Garden of God [aka paradise] will be on earth in the mill.
The thief on the cross and Lazarus will be in the first resurrection.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
10,067
3,421
✟977,221.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I read in 1 Thessalonians 4 13 Jesus will return….and the dead in Christ will rise first…i thought our loved went to heaven at the resurrection of Christ… how then do they need to rise when the have already risen with Christ?
When we die we go to heaven but our physical bodies remain. What goes to heaven would be of spiritual substance not material. I don't know what that will be perceived like but at the very least the material body stays put. Upon Christ's return, according to this passage in 1 Thessalonians the dead will arise first. This is the resurrection event also described by Paul in 1 Cor 15. We will rise anew with Incorruptible bodies. Stages of decomposition are relatively fast so many will come from mere dust, which in a way is a shout out to the first creation also from dust. I don't know how that transformation will look for those living, but they will join Christ in the clouds. But heaven is not the final destination, after this resurrection event it ushers in the melinial reign (Rev 20) after which the new heaven and new earth replace the old (Rev 22) where heaven comes down to earth in effect there will be no physical/spiritual divide.

Pre-resurection the material/flesh is seen as corruptable so incompatible with the presence of God/heaven. There needs to be a sanctification of the flesh first. The resurrection starts this transformation that ends with heaven and earth as the same place.

The bible details spiritual things using physical descriptors so in our heads we see the physical thing engaged in these great spiritual moments. How they are actually perceived like may however be different.

Christ's body was in the ground for 3 days so which part of him was in paradise? Which part of him took the keys to death and Hades? Honestly I don't know but I would says is these are material descriptors of the immaterial. What I do know Christ in these moments was absent his material body but what remains can only be articulated as the immaterial. what that is or looks like I don't know.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Apple Sky

In Sight Like Unto An Emerald
Site Supporter
Jan 7, 2024
6,779
891
South Wales
✟228,385.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
When we die we go to heaven but our physical bodies remain. What goes to heaven would be of spiritual substance not material. I don't know what that will be perceived like but at the very least the material body stays put.

Einstein claimed our souls are energy - frequencies and can never die;

 
Upvote 0

Semper-Fi

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 26, 2019
1,957
842
Pacific north west
✟549,779.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
when Jesus returns

We are to Pray "Thy kingdom come" Thy will be done in/on earth, as it is in heaven.

The living Christ is coming as “King of kings and Lord of lords” (Revelation 19:11-21),
to put down the rebellion of warring nations (Revelation 17:14), and establish God’s
world-ruling government over all nations (Daniel 2:44; 7:9, 13-14, 18, 22, 27; Isaiah 9:7).

As the resurrected Christ ascended to heaven in clouds, so He shall return to Earth
in clouds (Acts 1:9-11; Matthew 24:30). Just as He is returning (1Thes 4:14-17),

the dead in Christ—those who have received and been led by God’s Holy Spirit
(Romans 8:11, 14), will rise in a gigantic resurrection, made immortal—including
all the prophets of old (Luke 13:28). Those who have the Spirit of God, then living,
shall be instantaneously changed from mortal to immortal (1?Corinthians 15:50-54)

and, together with those resurrected, shall rise to meet the descending glorified Christ
(1 Thessalonians 4:17) in the clouds in the air. They shall be with Him, where He is,
forever (John 14:3). They shall—with Him—come down out of the clouds, and stand
with Him, therefore, that very same day, on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4-5).

And I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms, and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms
of the heathen; and I will overthrow the chariots, and those that ride in them; and the horses
and their riders shall come down, every one by the sword of his brother.

A world-ruling administration that will govern the nations upon earth. (Psalms 67:4).
He pictured Himself as the young nobleman going away (to heaven) to be coronated,
and to return to Earth (Luke 19:12-27). He will then be on the Earth—Zechariah 14:3-4,

Saints shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, (Daniel 7:18)
We shall inherit the earth. (Psalms 25:13-22:26, 37:9, 22,29) not being flesh and blood.

"It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name
of the city from that day shall be, The Lord is there. (Ezekiel 48:35)

"At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord; and
all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem:
neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go
no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city
of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God:
and I will write upon him my new name.

And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt
be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name. (Isaiah 62:2)

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me,
to give every man according as his work shall be.
 
Upvote 0

Semper-Fi

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 26, 2019
1,957
842
Pacific north west
✟549,779.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
-Jerusalem, the future headquarters city of the Earth (Haggai 2:6-8)
-Land Beneath Sea Reclaimed, converted to Jerusalem(Isaiah 60:5, 11:15).
World’s gold and silver reserves under the seas for beautiful decorations there.
-Gods latter house shall be greater than of the former (Haggai 2:9)
-Jerusalem is uniquely describes as being “compact together,” tall. Psalm 122:3

-Desolate land shall be tilled - will be like the garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:34-35)
-Build the waste cities-fresh produce-drink there own wine-farming (Amos 9:14)
-Waste cities “filled with flocks of men” being very social(Ezekiel 36:36-37-38)
-Superhighways between major cities (Isaiah 19:23)

-Cities being crime-free , dwell safely-none be made afried (Ezekiel 34:28-Micah 4:4)
-No more Violence, nor wasting, nor destruction (Isaiah 60:18)
-Cities overflow with prosperity (Zechariah 1:17) -Equitable property distribution
- every man shall own his vine and fig tree (Micah 4:4-Lev25) and

-“Joy and gladness-thanksgiving-the voice of melody(Isaiah 51:3)(Jeremiah 33:10-11)
-Where old men and old women dwell -full of boys and girls playing (Zechariah 8:4-5)
-No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up (Isaiah 35:9 )
-There will be Shepherds and local animal husbandry (Jer. 33:12)

-Pure Water—Fertile Deserts where trees grow (Isaiah 35:1-10).
-No more hunger-He will raise up a plant of renown (Ezekiel 34:29).
-A new sharp threshing instrument -the mountains made small(Isaiah 41:14-16)
-If any thrist and seek water, the God of Israel will not forsake them. (ver 17-18)

Trees planted and growing-consider and understand that the [Eternal] hath
done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it” . (verse 19-20)

--All will speak the same language, a pure language from God (Zephaniah 3:9).
God will also destroy the idols, (Ezekiel 30:13, Micah 5:10-15, Zechariah 13:2).
Thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst
of thee; and thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands.

The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. (Isaiah 14:7)
All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name.
Psalms 66:4 -God has spoken it, and He is not one to go back on His word (Isaiah 55:11)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
10,067
3,421
✟977,221.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Einstein claimed our souls are energy - frequencies and can never die;

sure, and I don't have a problem with that, it's just not something that is biblically revealed. The bible is about a plan for salvation, it's not really about a description of the afterlife. It talks about it, but more of broad strokes than fine details and the details what we are given may be allegorical. But I'm good with what Einstein said.
 
Upvote 0

Semper-Fi

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 26, 2019
1,957
842
Pacific north west
✟549,779.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Einstein claimed our souls are energy - frequencies and can never die;
I did not hear any bible verses mentioned at all in video.
You seem to trust in many of mankind's extra unbiblical doctrines.

Your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
It is better to trust in the LORD Than to put confidence in man.

Einstein said people could call him an agnostic rather than an atheist.
Albert Einstein stated "I believe in Spinoza's God". He did not believe
in a personal God who concerns himself with fates and actions of
human beings, a view which he described as "naïve" and "childlike".

Einstein also stated he did not believe in life after death,
adding "one life is enough for me."

He ditched the bible around age 12, and started reading scientific books, he soon
reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true.

"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an
anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously."

"The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naïve."

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product
of human weaknesses"
x

With these comments and his attitude about God, it is not fruit
of the Spirit, and most likely he did not have Gods Holy Spirit.

This reminds me of 1 Corinthians 2:11, 14

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which
is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them ,
because they are spiritually discerned.

We should get doctrine from the bible, not from other men/fables,
especially someone that claims the bible is "naïve" and "childlike".

Jeremiah 10:23 (KJV)
O LORD , I know that the way of man is not in himself:
it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Jeremiah 17:5 (KJV)
Thus saith the LORD ; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man,
and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD .

In 2 Timothy 3:7 speaking to the scholars in time of Christ it is said there
ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0