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When Jesus returns

davetaff

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Hi
When we die we go to sleep and if we are sleeping we are not dead so our body and soul can remain together this is possible because when we are baptised our bodies become spiritual and cannot die so we go to sleep awaiting the resurrection.
When we sleep we are conscience of nothing so it will seam instant transformation into the presence of Christ.

Love and Peace
Dave
 
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David Lamb

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Hi
When we die we go to sleep and if we are sleeping we are not dead so our body and soul can remain together this is possible because when we are baptised our bodies become spiritual and cannot die so we go to sleep awaiting the resurrection.
When we sleep we are conscience of nothing so it will seam instant transformation into the presence of Christ.

Love and Peace
Dave
So how could Jesus say to the thief, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise"? How could Paul write that he was well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord? What did Stephen mean by praying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit"?
 
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David Lamb

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David you said the souls of the dead are in heaven…not yet reunited with our bodies….
I don’t understand why the need to separate our soul from our body?
We are not told precisely why (as far as I am aware - others with greater knowledge of the Scriptures may correct me if I am wrong on that.) We are told that our bodies in which we go to heaven will be glorified bodies. Perhaps that gives us some hint - that our current bodies, with their aches and pains, dying cells etc. are not fit to enter heaven. Sorry not to be able to give a more definite answer.
 
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davetaff

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So how could Jesus say to the thief, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise"? How could Paul write that he was well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord? What did Stephen mean by praying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit"?
So how could Jesus say to the thief, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise"? How could Paul write that he was well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord? What did Stephen mean by praying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit"?
Hi David
Thank you for your post but it all depends on what today means when I woke up this morning It was today if I wake up in ten years time it will be today so today can be every day we wake up.
When Christ said this to the thief on the cross he could not mean that day because he could not go to heaven he had to spend it in the grave and the following days so today could mean his return to awaken all believers at the resurrection then it would be today.

Love and Peace
Dave
 
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David Lamb

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Hi David
Thank you for your post but it all depends on what today means when I woke up this morning It was today if I wake up in ten years time it will be today so today can be every day we wake up.
When Christ said this to the thief on the cross he could not mean that day because he could not go to heaven he had to spend it in the grave and the following days so today could mean his return to awaken all believers at the resurrection then it would be today.

Love and Peace
Dave
Even if, for the moment we accept that today doesn't mean "this day", that doesn't explain Paul's or Stephen's words. Neither of them mentioned "today" but they both talked of departing and being with the Lord.
 
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davetaff

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Hi David
Thank you for your post how about this verse

Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

So it seams every day can be called to day

Love and Peace
Dave
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Hi
When we die we go to sleep and if we are sleeping we are not dead so our body and soul can remain together this is possible because when we are baptised our bodies become spiritual and cannot die so we go to sleep awaiting the resurrection.
When we sleep we are conscience of nothing so it will seam instant transformation into the presence of Christ.

Love and Peace
Dave
Consider this:

1 Corinthians 15:50:
"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption."


This verse is part of Paul's discourse on the resurrection. He's explaining that our earthly, perishable bodies ("flesh and blood") are not suited for the imperishable, eternal nature of God's kingdom. We will be transformed and receive new, resurrected bodies that are not subject to decay and death.
Blessings
 
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davetaff

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Hi Maria
Thank you for your post yes what a wonderful time we have ahead of us

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed

This is the only way we can enter the presence of God we must be changed let us pray for that day to come soon what wonderful times we have to look forward to

Love and Peace
Dave
 
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Semper-Fi

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So how could Jesus say to the thief, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise"?
How could Jesus be in Paradise when he was dead and buried in the
grave for 3 days and 3 nights, before He was raised by the Father?

Matthew 13:34 (KJV)
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables;
and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Mark 4:34 (KJV)
But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when
they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Jesus was in front of a crowd, that wanted Him dead. Jesus very
well could have spoken a parable/hidden [when event] would occur.

The Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable.

Jesus made many parables leading up to chapter 16 in Luke.
Luke 16:14 Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees , who were
covetous, heard all these things[parables]: and they derided him.

Paradise

Jesus could have meant I'm telling you today, you will be with
Me in Paradise, [a future time] and a place, [not even made yet].

Even many of Gods prophets and apostles did not know the
timing to certain events like in Acts 1:6-7 or Daniel 12.

"paradise" G3857
παράδεισος
paradeisos
par-ad'-i-sos
Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically)
an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.
Total KJV occurrences: 3

"compare" H6508
פַּרְדֵּס
pardês
par-dace'
Of foreign origin; a park: - forest, orchard.
Total KJV occurrences: 3 Luke 23:43

Paradise is connected to [Eden], a garden of Gods, and also
it is connected to the tree of life; both will be on this earth.

occurrence #2 future event in Revelation 2:7 (KJV)

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto
the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of
the tree of life, which is in the midst of [the paradise of God].

Revelation 22:2 (KJV)
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river,
was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits,
and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree
were for the healing of the nations.

Revelation 22:14 (KJV)
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have
right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Future event Isaiah 51:3 (KJV) God will make A garden on earth in Jerusalem,
might be in the very same location as the first garden in Eden in Geneses.

For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places;
and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden
of the LORD ; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving,
and the voice of melody.

-
Past event in Genesis 2:8 (KJV)

And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden;
and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Genesis 2:10 (KJV)
And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and
from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

occurrence # 3

2 Corinthians 12:1-5 (KJV)
how that he was caught up into paradise, and heard
unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

In this verses Paul, in [a vision] could not tell if he was in
the body or out of the body, or if it was even a real. event

Jesus Christ does bring our rewards with Him Isaiah 40:10

Isaiah 28:10 (KJV)
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

-
The Garden of God [aka paradise] will be on earth in the mill.
The thief on the cross and Lazarus will be in the first resurrection.
 
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DamianWarS

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I read in 1 Thessalonians 4 13 Jesus will return….and the dead in Christ will rise first…i thought our loved went to heaven at the resurrection of Christ… how then do they need to rise when the have already risen with Christ?
When we die we go to heaven but our physical bodies remain. What goes to heaven would be of spiritual substance not material. I don't know what that will be perceived like but at the very least the material body stays put. Upon Christ's return, according to this passage in 1 Thessalonians the dead will arise first. This is the resurrection event also described by Paul in 1 Cor 15. We will rise anew with Incorruptible bodies. Stages of decomposition are relatively fast so many will come from mere dust, which in a way is a shout out to the first creation also from dust. I don't know how that transformation will look for those living, but they will join Christ in the clouds. But heaven is not the final destination, after this resurrection event it ushers in the melinial reign (Rev 20) after which the new heaven and new earth replace the old (Rev 22) where heaven comes down to earth in effect there will be no physical/spiritual divide.

Pre-resurection the material/flesh is seen as corruptable so incompatible with the presence of God/heaven. There needs to be a sanctification of the flesh first. The resurrection starts this transformation that ends with heaven and earth as the same place.

The bible details spiritual things using physical descriptors so in our heads we see the physical thing engaged in these great spiritual moments. How they are actually perceived like may however be different.

Christ's body was in the ground for 3 days so which part of him was in paradise? Which part of him took the keys to death and Hades? Honestly I don't know but I would says is these are material descriptors of the immaterial. What I do know Christ in these moments was absent his material body but what remains can only be articulated as the immaterial. what that is or looks like I don't know.
 
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Apple Sky

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When we die we go to heaven but our physical bodies remain. What goes to heaven would be of spiritual substance not material. I don't know what that will be perceived like but at the very least the material body stays put.

Einstein claimed our souls are energy - frequencies and can never die;

 
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Semper-Fi

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when Jesus returns

We are to Pray "Thy kingdom come" Thy will be done in/on earth, as it is in heaven.

The living Christ is coming as “King of kings and Lord of lords” (Revelation 19:11-21),
to put down the rebellion of warring nations (Revelation 17:14), and establish God’s
world-ruling government over all nations (Daniel 2:44; 7:9, 13-14, 18, 22, 27; Isaiah 9:7).

As the resurrected Christ ascended to heaven in clouds, so He shall return to Earth
in clouds (Acts 1:9-11; Matthew 24:30). Just as He is returning (1Thes 4:14-17),

the dead in Christ—those who have received and been led by God’s Holy Spirit
(Romans 8:11, 14), will rise in a gigantic resurrection, made immortal—including
all the prophets of old (Luke 13:28). Those who have the Spirit of God, then living,
shall be instantaneously changed from mortal to immortal (1?Corinthians 15:50-54)

and, together with those resurrected, shall rise to meet the descending glorified Christ
(1 Thessalonians 4:17) in the clouds in the air. They shall be with Him, where He is,
forever (John 14:3). They shall—with Him—come down out of the clouds, and stand
with Him, therefore, that very same day, on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4-5).

And I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms, and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms
of the heathen; and I will overthrow the chariots, and those that ride in them; and the horses
and their riders shall come down, every one by the sword of his brother.

A world-ruling administration that will govern the nations upon earth. (Psalms 67:4).
He pictured Himself as the young nobleman going away (to heaven) to be coronated,
and to return to Earth (Luke 19:12-27). He will then be on the Earth—Zechariah 14:3-4,

Saints shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, (Daniel 7:18)
We shall inherit the earth. (Psalms 25:13-22:26, 37:9, 22,29) not being flesh and blood.

"It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name
of the city from that day shall be, The Lord is there. (Ezekiel 48:35)

"At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord; and
all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem:
neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go
no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city
of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God:
and I will write upon him my new name.

And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt
be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name. (Isaiah 62:2)

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me,
to give every man according as his work shall be.
 
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Semper-Fi

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-Jerusalem, the future headquarters city of the Earth (Haggai 2:6-8)
-Land Beneath Sea Reclaimed, converted to Jerusalem(Isaiah 60:5, 11:15).
World’s gold and silver reserves under the seas for beautiful decorations there.
-Gods latter house shall be greater than of the former (Haggai 2:9)
-Jerusalem is uniquely describes as being “compact together,” tall. Psalm 122:3

-Desolate land shall be tilled - will be like the garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:34-35)
-Build the waste cities-fresh produce-drink there own wine-farming (Amos 9:14)
-Waste cities “filled with flocks of men” being very social(Ezekiel 36:36-37-38)
-Superhighways between major cities (Isaiah 19:23)

-Cities being crime-free , dwell safely-none be made afried (Ezekiel 34:28-Micah 4:4)
-No more Violence, nor wasting, nor destruction (Isaiah 60:18)
-Cities overflow with prosperity (Zechariah 1:17) -Equitable property distribution
- every man shall own his vine and fig tree (Micah 4:4-Lev25) and

-“Joy and gladness-thanksgiving-the voice of melody(Isaiah 51:3)(Jeremiah 33:10-11)
-Where old men and old women dwell -full of boys and girls playing (Zechariah 8:4-5)
-No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up (Isaiah 35:9 )
-There will be Shepherds and local animal husbandry (Jer. 33:12)

-Pure Water—Fertile Deserts where trees grow (Isaiah 35:1-10).
-No more hunger-He will raise up a plant of renown (Ezekiel 34:29).
-A new sharp threshing instrument -the mountains made small(Isaiah 41:14-16)
-If any thrist and seek water, the God of Israel will not forsake them. (ver 17-18)

Trees planted and growing-consider and understand that the [Eternal] hath
done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it” . (verse 19-20)

--All will speak the same language, a pure language from God (Zephaniah 3:9).
God will also destroy the idols, (Ezekiel 30:13, Micah 5:10-15, Zechariah 13:2).
Thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst
of thee; and thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands.

The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. (Isaiah 14:7)
All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name.
Psalms 66:4 -God has spoken it, and He is not one to go back on His word (Isaiah 55:11)
 
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DamianWarS

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Einstein claimed our souls are energy - frequencies and can never die;

sure, and I don't have a problem with that, it's just not something that is biblically revealed. The bible is about a plan for salvation, it's not really about a description of the afterlife. It talks about it, but more of broad strokes than fine details and the details what we are given may be allegorical. But I'm good with what Einstein said.
 
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Semper-Fi

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Einstein claimed our souls are energy - frequencies and can never die;
I did not hear any bible verses mentioned at all in video.
You seem to trust in many of mankind's extra unbiblical doctrines.

Your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
It is better to trust in the LORD Than to put confidence in man.

Einstein said people could call him an agnostic rather than an atheist.
Albert Einstein stated "I believe in Spinoza's God". He did not believe
in a personal God who concerns himself with fates and actions of
human beings, a view which he described as "naïve" and "childlike".

Einstein also stated he did not believe in life after death,
adding "one life is enough for me."

He ditched the bible around age 12, and started reading scientific books, he soon
reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true.

"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an
anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously."

"The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naïve."

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product
of human weaknesses"
x

With these comments and his attitude about God, it is not fruit
of the Spirit, and most likely he did not have Gods Holy Spirit.

This reminds me of 1 Corinthians 2:11-14

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which
is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them ,
because they are spiritually discerned.

We should get doctrine from the bible 2 Timothy 3:16, not from other
men/fables, especially someone that claims the bible is "naïve" and "childlike".

Jeremiah 10:23 (KJV)
O LORD , I know that the way of man is not in himself:
it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Jeremiah 17:5 (KJV)
Thus saith the LORD ; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man,
and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD .

In 2 Timothy 3:7 speaking to the scholars in time of Christ it is said there
ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
 
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Semper-Fi

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How could Paul write that he was well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord?
2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body,
and to be present with the Lord.

This statement is a colloquialism that Paul used. Let's see this...

1Co 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but [present in spirit], have judged already,
as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

Where was Paul? In spirit present in heaven? Nope, he was not at Corinth also
but he was some ware else on the earth as a human being in the flesh.

Col 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying
and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

This verse clarifies what he meant by being absent from the body
(the church) but present in spirit with them here.

Earnestly desiring to be [clothed upon]
with our house which is from heaven.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle
be dissolved,we have a building from God, a house not made with
hands, eternal, in the heavens.

-Paul uses the tabernacle to represent our earthly house/body which will be
dissolved/being mortal, but we have a building form God a house not made
with hands, eternal/immortal, in the heavens.

why is Paul saying this? The context from the prior chapter will help:

2Co 4:16 Wherefore we faint not; but though our outward man is decaying,
yet our inward man is renewed day by day. For our light affliction, which is for
the moment, worketh for us more and more exceedingly an eternal weight of glory;

while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen:
for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

-Our outward man/tabernacle/body is decaying it is mortal but we have faith
in the things that are eternal. What is this in relation to? when will this be?

2Co 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus
shall raise up us also by Jesus,and shall present us with you.

-So Paul faints not because of the Grace God gives and the promise that
this corrupt outward mortal man will be raised to eternal life just as Jesus was.

2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be [clothed upon] with our house
which is [from] heaven: 2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

-We want that clothing that is from heaven. what clothing?

2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that
we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

-mortality might put on life or [clothed with immortality] in other words, our new House.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption;
it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory:
it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy,
we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be
changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet
shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on
immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and
this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying
that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

-This all takes place at the last trump at the coming of Christ. when our
mortal bodies are clothed in immortality changed in the twinkling of an eye.

So lets go back to the texts in question:

2Co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God,
who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are
at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight)

-So through the earnestness of the Spirit they walk by faith not by sight,
in this earthly body and are absent from the Lord because they are here
on earth and the judgment has not yet come. but:

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body,
and to be present with the Lord.

-They are willing or want to be absent from the body and present with the Lord.
Contextually we have seen this happens at the resurrection not instantly.
To them it might seem one minute they died, next the awake not knowing time past.

Paul does not say or even infer that this is instantaneous at all. He simply says
he would like to be out of this mortal body and to be present with the Lord.
He does not even say that one equals the other but rather he wants to with the Lord.

Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

Notice that he says, "present or absent" we may be accepted of him.
If being absent means He is already with the Lord then
how is it that the absent still hopes to be accepted of him?

Paul is simply saying that they labour in life by faith in this mortal body.
and the works that they do will follow them even in death/absent.

As it is written:

Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write,
Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the
Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ;
that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to
that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
 
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PatrickTate

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I read in 1 Thessalonians 4 13 Jesus will return….and the dead in Christ will rise first…i thought our loved went to heaven at the resurrection of Christ… how then do they need to rise when the have already risen with Christ?
I recently read a testimony that may help you to understand this question.





Question:



What will we look like in Heaven?



Romans 8:39 tells us that nothing will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. When we die in Christ, there is no interruption of life at the end of this life; our souls will immediately go to be with Jesus in Heaven. We will receive a physical spiritual body with a continuity of personal existence similar to what our resurrected bodies will be like when Jesus returns.


We will be ageless yet have various physical appearances. At first, there will be children and adults in appearance because there will be no chronological age as we experience now.


As heavenly beings, we will possess both the vigor of youth and the wisdom of maturity. Agelessness is the eternal nature of existence in Heaven and the New Earth, where time, as we understand it, does not pass or affect us in the same way. All persons entering Heaven will receive a perfect physical body.


Agelessness and physical age are no longer defining or limiting factors in Heaven and the New Earth because there is no more death, mourning, crying, or pain; we will be ageless yet have various physical appearances of chronological ages.



All persons who died as adults who have not reached their chronologically physical age of perfection will either continue to grow and mature or revert back to their chronologically physical age of perfection. If you, for example, died as a teenager, you would continue to grow, or if you are older, you will revert back.



In Heaven, the imperfections and limitations of our earthly bodies will no longer apply. Instead, people will experience a state of perfection, where our bodies transcend the cycles of aging, disabilities, deformities of any kind, decay, or frailty that we are familiar with on Earth.


Scripture states,“Revelation 21:1-4, [NIV]) 1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.


While we may retain adult appearances, our hearts, and spirits could be marked by the wonder and lightness of children, living in a harmonious and renewed creation. The image of eternity where childlike wonder meets mature understanding paints a picture of deep fulfillment and peace, aligning with the idea of eternal joy in God's presence.


These reflections encapsulate the hope and mystery of what awaits believers in Heaven and the New Earth. The emphasis on perfection, joy, and vitality, as well as the idea that relationships will be transformed and deepened by the fullness of God's love, is comforting and reassuring peace. It acknowledges our wonderment of the unknowns while focusing on the promises of Scripture about the beauty and completeness of eternal life in God's presence.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I read in 1 Thessalonians 4 13 Jesus will return….and the dead in Christ will rise first…i thought our loved went to heaven at the resurrection of Christ… how then do they need to rise when the have already risen with Christ?

There is some confusion among many Christians today because these things don't get taught correctly.

The Bible, and the historic teaching of Christianity has always been that between bodily death and bodily resurrection (when Christ returns) we go and experience a rest in the presence of the Lord. That's what "going to heaven" refers to, when we talk about someone going to be with Jesus, or going home to be with the Lord after they have died, we're talking about this intermediate state. But this "going to heaven" is not the final experience, or what theologians call the ultimate state. The ultimate state is, when Jesus returns, the dead are raised (bodily), and God renews and heals all creation--"new heavens and new earth" as the Bible describes it. Our eternal destination is resurrection and to enjoy God forever in God's good creation, right here on God's good green earth, in the renewal of all things which God brings to the whole universe--the whole of creation. "Heaven and earth" in the Bible is best understood if we think "sky and land", the word "heaven"/"heavens".

In Hebrew the word for "heaven" is always plural, and means "the sky" or "everything we see when we look up", it's where birds fly, clouds float, where the sun, moon, and stars are, and conceptually God is far beyond these things in "the highest heavens" that is, "heaven" becomes euphemistic for God's rulership over the whole cosmos; which is why "kingdom of God" and "kingdom of heaven" mean the same thing in the Bible, it's talking about God's royal power and authority over everything, not a place called "heaven".

So "going to heaven" is best understood as "being with the Lord", which is what St. Paul says in 2 Corinthians, that when we are apart from the body, we are present with the Lord. Bodily death, in which soul and body are torn apart, is an unnatural condition--God created us as fully-bodied creatures, to experience and enjoy God in this material universe, that's what is described in Genesis until human beings (Adam and Eve) messed everything up. God's goal, His whole salvation project, is to redeem creation and restore human beings not only to a right relationship with Himself, but with each other, and with the rest of creation. So Jesus died and rose from the dead, not so that we could go to heaven when we die, but in order that sin be expunged on the cross, we are reconcile to God, and to destroy the power of death--to promise us that even as God raised Jesus up from the dead, He will do the same for us; and Paul says in Romans 8 that the whole of creation groans in longing to the day when this happens, because creation itself suffers under the pain of death and the futility of death.

So when the Lord returns, the dead shall be raised. And God is going to make all things new, and we will enjoy God forever. Not by going "up to heaven" forever; but ultimately because God is going to unite "heaven" and earth together, and He is going to be in our midst, He will be our God and we will be His people, and He will wipe every tear from our eyes.

That is the Christian hope: God is going to set all things to rights, and that means even our bodies will be made whole, new, and glorified in the future world of renewal and eternal goodness partaking of God's life and fellowship.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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David you said the souls of the dead are in heaven…not yet reunited with our bodies….
I don’t understand why the need to separate our soul from our body?

It's an unnatural condition because of death. Without death, this would never happen. But because of death, the body dies. We aren't just bodies though, that aspect or part of ourselves that is more than just the body, we usually call that the human soul, or spirit. There are a lot of different ways Christians have tried to define the soul over the centuries; but at the end of the day what we're getting at is the reality that human beings are more than just biological machines--we have a sense of individuality and self, we have reason, will, feeling, we are moral creatures who are able to learn right from wrong, etc. That's the soul, and that doesn't just disappear when the body dies--the human person doesn't just go poof from existence when we die.

In some way, somehow, we continue to exist; and that conscious existence is for those who are in Christ present with Christ.

And so we then speak of the resurrection of the body as also the re-union of body and soul, because that's how we were meant to exist. God did not create Adam as a disembodied soul and then put it into a body of flesh; God took dust from the earth, breathed life into it, and it became a living soul.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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