When is your sin forgiven?

[O'Mara]

Is your sin only forgiven when You have confessed your sin to God AND confessed your sin to the one you sinned against?

Does there have to be a thrid party involved when you sin?

Let's say, this being purely hypothetical, that I stole a beer from a store when I was a teenager and the owner never even noticed. Is that sin not forgiven unless I confess the sin to the owner?



O'mara

 

[Blackhawk]

Your sins are forgiven past and present when one places his or her faith in God and becomes a Christian. If we had to remember all are sins to be forgiven then we would never be forgiven of ll of our sins. There wuld always be one we would forget. Actually there is a lot more that we forget. Also if we have unforgiven sin we can't go to heaven so we would not get into heaven if we had to confess all our sins before they would be forgiven. That is why I am glad that Christ died for all our sins past, present, and future.

 

[HesMyAll]

Your sins are forgiven as soon as your confess them to God and repent (turn away from them).

 

[eldermike]

IMHO, if we beleive we know our sins, we are not humble. The Thief next to Jesus on the cross knew 2 important things, one, He was a thief and two, He was not worthy. The important thing here is the "not worthy" part. We may know of a sin that needs forgivness but we can't know them all because we are not worthy because of our nature, not our sins. Sin is a symptom of the problem, not the problem. The problem is our nature.

Sure we should ask forgivness but also we must know who we are and why we are not worthy of salvation. There is not one single good thing I can do to make myself worthy, but I am forgiven anyway because God is Who He is all the time, every time and forever.

Our nature is forgiven if we humble ourselves and ask Jesus to lead my life as my Lord and my Savior. It's that simple, but the humble part trips a buch of people up.

Blessings

 

[O'Mara]

Thank you much.

So can you show me a verse or two that goes with this topic?

thank you in advance

O'mara

 

[eldermike]

Romans Chapter 8

I would suggest that you read it, pray about it and then read it again.

Sometimes it's better not to post a scripture because it can be taken out of context. Romans 8 will guide you much better than I can do by picking a piece of it to support some point.

Blessings to you

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by O'Mara
Is your sin only forgiven when You have confessed your sin to God AND confessed your sin to the one you sinned against?

Does there have to be a thrid party involved when you sin?

Let's say, this being purely hypothetical, that I stole a beer from a store when I was a teenager and the owner never even noticed. Is that sin not forgiven unless I confess the sin to the owner?



O'mara

Hey O'mara.  Our (all people that were saved, are saved, will be saved) sins were forgiven when Christ died as the spotless Lamb.  Repentence is something that is a result of understanding that we've been forgiven.  It is not a means to obtain forgiveness.  For the most part when we ask for forgiveness we ask amiss.  Christ intercedes on our behalf.  Repentence is never the means.  It is always the result.

God bless

 

[O'Mara]

Eldermike: Thank you. I will.

Reformationist: Repentance as in 1 Peter 3:10,11?

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by O'Mara
Reformationist: Repentance as in 1 Peter 3:10,11?

Okay.  What about it?

 

[hraedisc]

There is much false theology on these boards and on this thread. BEWARE! Read and study the scriptures for yourselves.

Salvation isn't about making a one-time decision in the past, perhaps many years ago.

 

[Outspoken]

I would say the sin is forgiven upon conversion and the consequence of death is forgiven at judgement.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Outspoken
I would say the sin is forgiven upon conversion and the consequence of death is forgiven at judgement.

I'm confused.  "The consequence of death?"  Death is the consequence of sin.  If our sins are forgiven upon conversion then the consequence of our sin is forgiven upon conversion.

Maybe I just misunderstood you.

God bless

 

[Outspoken]

"If our sins are forgiven upon conversion then the consequence of our sin is forgiven upon conversion."

I disagree. The distance that sin keeps us from God is taken away, but we are not judged yet, this is why Paul constantly refers to the HOPE of our salvation....salvation from judgement and condemnation.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Outspoken
I disagree. The distance that sin keeps us from God is taken away, but we are not judged yet, this is why Paul constantly refers to the HOPE of our salvation....salvation from judgement and condemnation.

Our salvation, as is many things, is discussed in terms of the definitive, progressive, final model.  We were definitively saved by Christ's death on the Cross, we are progressively being saved from our sinfulness, and upon our glorification we will be finally cleansed from our iniquities.

God bless

 

[Outspoken]

"We were definitively saved by Christ's death on the Cross"

i agree, the only way we are not is if God is a liar, he is not, so our hope is fufilled and well placed.

 

[MizDoulos]

Moved this thread from Soteriology for further discussion here.

 

[john14_20]

Hey Reformationist - Happy New Year to you!

Really good post - I agree with what you say regarding our sins being forgiven 2000 years ago. My only alteration would be to remove what you had in brackets.

(all people that were saved, are saved, will be saved)

I think that Jesus is the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world, not just the believers. In the event of the life, death, ressurection and ascension of Jesus Christ, a mammoth event was taking place.
Primarily this was the dealing with of sin on behalf of the entire human race. Just as you were not given a choice when Adam plunged you into death, neither were you given a choice when Christ pulled you out. This is not to say however, that all are saved or all will be in Heaven. It is not your sins that get you into hell, or your lack of sins (forgiveness) that gets you into Heaven. It is merely the faith in Jesus and what Jesus has already done in your life and what Jesus has already made of you that determines your destiny. You have the free will to accept or reject what Christ has made of you, but you don't have the power to undo what He has done. So both Heaven and hell are full of the same people; forgiven sinners.
When were my sins forgiven? The same time yours and everbody else's were; 2000 years ago in the Incarnation and Crucifixion, whether or not one comes to understand or believe this.

Blessings in Christ to all, Pete.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by john14_20
Hey Reformationist - Happy New Year to you!

Same to you brother. 

Really good post - I agree with what you say regarding our sins being forgiven 2000 years ago. My only alteration would be to remove what you had in brackets.

(all people that were saved, are saved, will be saved)

LOL!  Well, that is the common consensus here.

I think that Jesus is the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world, not just the believers.

I don't think Jesus took away the sins of the believers either.  The reason anyone believes is because they have been regenerated.  It is not the basis for being regenerated.

In the event of the life, death, ressurection and ascension of Jesus Christ, a mammoth event was taking place.

I agree.

Primarily this was the dealing with of sin on behalf of the entire human race.

But He wasn't.

Just as you were not given a choice when Adam plunged you into death, neither were you given a choice when Christ pulled you out. This is not to say however, that all are saved or all will be in Heaven. It is not your sins that get you into hell, or your lack of sins (forgiveness) that gets you into Heaven. It is merely the faith in Jesus and what Jesus has already done in your life and what Jesus has already made of you that determines your destiny.

Not true.  Even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19).  The reason that some go to hell is that their sins HAVE NOT been accounted for.  They must still pay the price for them.  That price is death, spiritual and physical.  Prior to God regenerating a person, and He does not regenerate all people, that person is dead (spiritually).  They have no faith.  They are not God's child.  They are His enemy, and He is their's.  Even our faith in Him is a gift from Him.  To attribute our faith in God to something that is intrinsic to us after the Fall is to deny the Fall.  Our destiny was determined long before we were ever created (Eph 1:4).  Our faith is a result of His salvitic love, not a means of obtaining it.

[quoteYou have the free will to accept or reject what Christ has made of you, but you don't have the power to undo what He has done. So both Heaven and hell are full of the same people; forgiven sinners.[/b][/quote]

Okay.  Well, there's a new theory.

You've got some strange ideas bro but I'm glad you're here.

God bless,

Don

 

[john14_20]

Hi Don. Thanks for your reply and your welcome to me. Let me quickly explain, I am here equally to learn as I am to share, and I don’t want to come across as trying to convince anyone that I am right and they are wrong. Theology is a learning process, and our theologies will often change. That siad, I have two things for you. Firstly, you say “The reason that some go to hell is that their sins HAVE NOT been accounted for.”. Can you please explain whow you came to believe that? And secondly, is the thrust of your post that God chooses whom will believe, then regenerates them and then they believe? If so when does the forgiveness of sin part take place?

Blessings to you, Pete.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by john14_20
Hi Don. Thanks for your reply and your welcome to me.

Your welcome.

Let me quickly explain, I am here equally to learn as I am to share, and I don’t want to come across as trying to convince anyone that I am right and they are wrong.

Well, that will put you in the minority here.   I wish I could say that I wasn't including myself in that, but I think too often I am more focused on showing someone their error than I am growing in knowledge together.  It's something I have been working on.

Theology is a learning process, and our theologies will often change.

I agree.  Well said.

That siad, I have two things for you. Firstly, you say “The reason that some go to hell is that their sins HAVE NOT been accounted for.”. Can you please explain whow you came to believe that?

Well, I'm not sure I could sum it up in a sentence or two.  Basically, in the beginning, man disobeyed God.  God cursed man for his disobedience with an immediate spiritual death and an imminent physical death.  Man was separated from God, both physically and spiritually.  Essentially, man was dead.  He knew none of the blessings that he had in the Garden.  What separated him from God was God's wrath against his unrighteousness.  For God and man to be reconciled that rift had to be accounted for.  God required an appeasement.  That appeasement would reconcile the rift between man and God by satisfying God's righteous anger against man.

Now the deeper part.  God is righteous and holy.  For us to be in fellowship with God we must also be considered righteous and holy.  God is light.  In our fallen state we are darkness.  God is righteous.  We are lawless.  Righteousness and lawlessness have no fellowship.  Light and dark have no communion (2 Cor 6:14).  Something had to change that.  We could not overcome God's wrath.  We were God's enemy.  We were an abomination to Him.  We were at war with Him.  Nothing we could do could please God.  God had to do something to change our enmity.

Okay.  Onward.  Hopefully you follow me so far.  The reason we were God's enemy was because of our unrighteousness.  If only we could be righteous then we would be at peace with God.  What kept us from being righteous in God's eyes was our fallen sinfulness.  We could not overcome that fallenness.  It must be overcome for us.  Enter Jesus.  Jesus, God incarnate, came to earth, lived a righteous life, and died a spotless lamb.  In dying He took the sin of God's chosen with Him into death.  When He was resurrected He overcame death and as Romans 8:3 tells us, "He condemned sin in the flesh."

So, when you say that those in hell are forgiven sinners that just makes me wonder what you think the purpose of being forgiven is.  If we are forgiven we are God's beloved.  God would not send His beloved to hell to suffer.

And secondly, is the thrust of your post that God chooses whom will believe, then regenerates them and then they believe?

I'm not sure if this is what you are asking but this is the way it works:

God created man.  Man was morally free to choose both good and evil.  Man chose evil (sinned).  God cast man from His presence.  God made provision for man.  Fallen man was God's enemy.  God was fallen man's enemy.  Fallen man did not desire the things of God.  While fallen man had the ability to choose good, he never would because he never desired to.  His nature was in complete rebellion to God.  God did not choose man because he would believe, rather man believes because God chose him.  If God does not choose someone, they do not believe.

If so when does the forgiveness of sin part take place?

Well, the forgiveness of the sins of God's chosen was definitively accomplished when Christ died.  Individually, that forgiveness is manifested in progressive terms upon an individual's regeneration.  Obviously man still sins, even after being regenerated.  So, the final culmination of our sanctification is manifested upon our glorification.  But, in answer to your question, the actual forgiveness of the sins of God's elect was aquired when Christ earned it.

God bless,

Don