When is the CHURCH going to force the govt out of it's sacraments

[Jase]

But as you say, there are at least 35,000 other answers out there so you must be completely wrong.

I never claimed that the Bible requires no interpretation and anything that I want it to say must be right, because I'm just reading what's on the page.

My views are based on evidence and logic, not some ridiculous notion that a 4000 year old book translated by for-profit publishing companies into English is somehow perfect without any interpretation.

 

[Albion]

I never claimed that the Bible requires no interpretation and anything that I want it to say must be right, because I'm just reading what's on the page.

My views are based on evidence and logic, not some ridiculous notion that a 4000 year old book translated by for-profit publishing companies into English is somehow perfect without any interpretation.

Which has nothing to do with what I said. I responded to the following that you wrote: "There are 35,000 denominations all who disagree on things in the Bible. Claiming you are the only one with the "truth" is completely wrong."

It's not the case that if there are 35,000 or however many denominations, none of them can be correct. It is entirely possible that one or more are quite correct. But if you are right about this precluding any of them from being correct, it must include you, too, thus making this other comment of yours wrong: "I stand by the truth, which is not found in modern English corruptions. And I've already discussed this issue with God numerous times. My view is never going to change."

I don't take issue with what your view actually is, but the above illustrates my point, i.e. the multiplicity of choices DOES NOT mean that all of them are wrong. That's a logical fallacy, although it is very often heard.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

Yeh, we do say that. We do not think it's good for babies to be born with cleft palates or cerebral palsey or without some limbs the rest of us have. We do not think that everything that is, is good by definition.

God has not created a single being who was predestined for damnation. Everyone, including satan himself, has had the opportunity to accept Christ Jesus and inherit the riches and glory of the Kingdom of God.

satan chose to rebel against the will of God, and we as men, have as well. satan's defiance would have been forgiven him had he repented and fell prostrate in front of his Holy Father. He chose instead to gather and army against God.

We, today, have the same opportunity. We can fall prostrate before God, repenting of our sin, and by His Grace, be granted life according to Christ Jesus' witness.
A murderer, thief, liar, adulterer, or even a pagan priestess, all, according to the Word of God, admitted their failures as humans, and were granted forgiveness and inherited the Kingdom.

Acknowledgment of sin is key to repentance, and repentance is key to eternal life through Christ Jesus.

 

[Albion]

God has not created a single being who was predestined for damnation.

Well, that's one view, all right. Others think he did just that. Does it have something to do with this thread?

 

[Leap]

Because both that and the KJV are based on the Latin Vulgate Bible.

Oh, so despite your assertion that "abomination" does not appear in any Bible before KJV it actually appears in the Vulgate and you admit that?

The DR and KJV were very interrelated translations. That word first appeared in the Wycliffe Bible, also based on the Latin Vulgate.

The Hebrew word that it replaced, however, does not have the same meaning. To us, abomination means something vile, evil, disgusting, etc.

The Hebrew word merely means ritually inappropriate for the Israelites, or "taboo".

Wearing cotton and polyester, planting 2 types of crops in the same field, wearing glasses in the Tabernacle, incense, sacrificing a blemished animal, letting foreigners into the temple, women wearing pants etc. would all be defined by the same word.

Do you seriously think any of those would be viewed as evil, disgusting, or vile?

Given the number and severity of admonitions to not engage in sodomy, "abomination" is indeed a fair word to use.

 

[Jase]

God has not created a single being who was predestined for damnation. Everyone, including satan himself, has had the opportunity to accept Christ Jesus and inherit the riches and glory of the Kingdom of God.

satan chose to rebel against the will of God, and we as men, have as well. satan's defiance would have been forgiven him had he repented and fell prostrate in front of his Holy Father. He chose instead to gather and army against God.

We, today, have the same opportunity. We can fall prostrate before God, repenting of our sin, and by His Grace, be granted life according to Christ Jesus' witness.
A murderer, thief, liar, adulterer, or even a pagan priestess, all, according to the Word of God, admitted their failures as humans, and were granted forgiveness and inherited the Kingdom.

Acknowledgment of sin is key to repentance, and repentance is key to eternal life through Christ Jesus.

Where does Genesis discuss Satan's fall and rebellion? Don't see it in the book it would logically be in.

 

[Lovely Lane]

Satan sin, I wonder how there could be sin in Heaven. What did it do, slip in the gated community?

Thought sin was only for mere human beings where someone ate a piece of fruit. Just one bite, that's all it took.

The Church should be separated from the government and each sect can make up it's own rules about who can have a church wedding. And let each State government have a general ballot vote on civil unions for whomever wants one. Granted, unlike Carry Concealed Weapons permits or Drivers License, civil unions may or may not have reciprocal agreement among States.

But some day this issue will be forgot and we can start in on something important like conservation of resources on Mar's.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

Where does Genesis discuss Satan's fall and rebellion? Don't see it in the book it would logically be in.

satan's fall is mentioned several tiems in the Holy Scripture.....that is....unless those diabolical scribes twisted God's original human words to suit their purpose as the SRoFM claim. IE.....lucifer, the god of light, and YWHA, the god of darkness.

Perhaps that's why your always arguing that God promotes homosexuality. We've got it all backwards, as men were always supposed to be homosexual, and we simply created a subspecies for procreation.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

Orientation is not a choice.

There is NO SUCH THING as orientation.

Every single human being ever born has faced temptation. God may create people born to die due to disease. And some of these are kept alive against God's will, and we label these children as defective and some are institutionalized due to our flesh not wanting to let them go home to their Creator.

However, a child is not born attracted to one sex or another. Sexual attraction occurs during puberty, and depending on the conditions one is raise in, he/she will have a greater desire or lesser desire.
For instance, I was neglected as a toddler and I was exposed at an early age to sexual deviance. My mother had multiple partners and was a drunk. There were times when she had several men and women over to our home participating in sexual deviations. When I was 6-7 I was looking at inappropriate contentography with my brother regularly.
When puberty hit, around 11, I began experiencing erection while looking at desirable women. That's my story.

However, a friend of mine was raise by strict Catholic parents who never even passionately kissed in front of him. His dad was absent as a parent although he lived in the home. He never participated in any of his son's activities or showed interest in his life, outside beating him for Cs and Ds.

When he was 15 he began having a homosexual relationships with young men he met in Chicago night clubs. That is until he realized his sin and repented.
He's now married and has many times apologized for trying to get me to join him in his deviations. He admitted he was tricked into hooking up with those older boys, and due to following taboo pleasure and seeking attention from men, he was gay. Now......he's straight, as an arrow and even does seminars about how there is no such thing as sexual orientation. He's an associate professor at a major university and has been studying human psychology for almost 20 yrs.

inappropriate behavior with animals and pedophilia are as much a sexual oreintation as are homo and hetero. We become what we fixate on. If we are fixated on women during adolescence we will likely be straight. In my case, due to the absence of a nurturing mother, I became a womanizer during my falling away. My best friend OTOH, due to his lacking of a strong male role model, sought out older boys who were experimenting in bisexuality, drugs, and dancing. Since he has been born again, he doesnt even like house music anymore.

A murderer won't be damned if he repents and does not murder again. A pedophile can be forgiven just as a thief can. i am no less guilty being a tramp than a homosexual is for lusting after another man/woman. We are all sinners, and we all fall short.

Repentance and turning away from sin is KEY to salvation. Without turning away, the murderer is condemned to eternal damnation. The thief is condemned to eternal damnation. The adulterer is condemned to eternal damnation. The pedophile and the homosexual are condemned to eternal damnation.

 

[Trogool]

Marriage.
A sacrament. A holy vow made between a man and a woman before God, and INCLUDING GOD.
Why does the Church allow the govt to define marriage, whether between heterosexuals following their faith and entering the sacrament or between sinners of the same sex, pretending to do the same, following the lusts of their flesh.
Why do WE allow for the govt to call a civil union a marriage?

We don't allow the govt to call Christmas, Christmas anymore. We don't allow the govt to call Thanksgiving Holy Communion.

We should take back marriage. We should take back Christmas and Easter and let the seculars have their vacations and their unions.

Where is the ACLU while the govt is instituting a religious ceremony, a sacrament?
Cmon ACLU ban marriage. It is NOT the govt's job to define it.

If a Church chooses to recognize an abomination like homosexuality as OK, then WE can excommunicate them can't we. Kick the whole church out of our midst. But, it needs to start with a stand.
Where do we stand?

The government gets to define marriage because there are real and tangible benefits through the government to having a registered marriage. If you are willing to dispense with all those benefits such as visitation, pensioning, power of attorney, custody, tax benefits etc., we can get the government out of marriage.

 

[Trogool]

There is NO SUCH THING as orientation.

Please look up your local community college and take a survey of psychology class.

 

[Albion]

There is NO SUCH THING as orientation.

Every single human being ever born has faced temptation. God may create people born to die due to disease. And some of these are kept alive against God's will, and we label these children as defective and some are institutionalized due to our flesh not wanting to let them go home to their Creator.

However, a child is not born attracted to one sex or another.

Actually, the jury is still out on whether homosexuality may be a birth defect. There is some evidence that it is.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

Actually, the jury is still out on whether homosexuality may be a birth defect. There is some evidence that it is.

Watching a new Morgan Freeman series on Discovery the other day, he was discussing whether murderers and sociopaths share common genes or defective brains. All the evidence, DNA structures, brain scans, and all this other scientific hoo hah showed that not only are people predisposed to violence, but can be retrained thru mild electroshock therapy into making better choices when viewing violent stimulation.

In other words..........................Science can dispute the Bible all it wants....but I will still choose to believe the Word of God.

As for derailing this thread.....well, my point is that the govt should not define marriage. It should instead create civil unions for men to marry men and woman to marry horses for all we care. We can not save a man, and I think for the most part we are praying for those who are so deep into sin they are trying to condone it through Scripture.