When is it a sin?

[SkyWriting]

As we know the law of God is still active and cannot be removed until the world end.
There is mortal sins which in the bible are punished by killing with stones. We don't say all sins are equal. But we agree sinner cannot enter heaven and most of the people go to hell and rarely someone enter heaven.

He has made the first one obsolete.

You would have to take that up with four thousand years now of commentators, laws, rules, etc., of both Judaism and Christianity. Judaism has it:

Lev 5:18 “And he shall bring to the priest a ram without blemish from the flock, with your valuation, as a trespass offering. So the priest shall make atonement for him regarding his ignorance in which he erred and did not know it, and it shall be forgiven him.

There is no sacrifice in the old testament for willful sins. A sin committed in ignorance is just such sin the writer of 1 John meant when he said "If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death..." i.e., a sin committed in ignorance. Or as the Roman Church defines it, a venial sin.

The entire Old Testament is just one big story to show how the written law does not work for man.

10 Later, when Jesus was alone, the twelve apostles and others around him asked him about the stories. 11 Jesus said, “You can know the secret about the kingdom of God. But to other people I tell everything by using stories



2 Corinthians 3:6
And He has qualified us as ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Hebrews 8:13
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

Hebrews 1:11
They will perish, but You remain; they will all wear out like a garment.

Hebrews 7:22
Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

Hebrews 8:6
Now, however, Jesus has received a much more excellent ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is better and is founded on better promises.

Hebrews 8:8
But God found fault with the people and said: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Hebrews 12:24
to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

 

[HTacianas]

The entire Old Testament is just one big story to show how the written law does not work for man.

10 Later, when Jesus was alone, the twelve apostles and others around him asked him about the stories. 11 Jesus said, “You can know the secret about the kingdom of God. But to other people I tell everything by using stories



2 Corinthians 3:6
And He has qualified us as ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Hebrews 8:13
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

Hebrews 1:11
They will perish, but You remain; they will all wear out like a garment.

Hebrews 7:22
Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

Hebrews 8:6
Now, however, Jesus has received a much more excellent ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is better and is founded on better promises.

Hebrews 8:8
But God found fault with the people and said: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Hebrews 12:24
to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

If there were no difference in the severity of sin it is extremely doubtful that the writer of 1 John would have brought it up.

 

[SkyWriting]

I have merely quoted the appropriate scriptures to you and you have repeatedly denied them in favor of your own opinion.

I fully support your methods. I hope you don't think that the sin that leads to death is covered by just two passages? These passages address "The sin that leads to death" more directly:

Mark 3:29
But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Luke 12:10
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

Matthew 12:32
And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

1 John 5:17
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

Matthew 12:31
Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

1 John 3:6
No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

If there were no difference in the severity of sin it is extremely doubtful that the writer of 1 John would have brought it up.

And finally this one:

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

So if you refuse forgiveness, you cannot receive the benefits of the blood of Jesus, which would clean you if you accepted it. (Even from those sex sins we all have hoped are the worst ones that only OTHER people do.)

 

[SkyWriting]

You claim to speak for God?

I understand that the church leaders have been hired
to find "other" people to blame and have done what
they get paid to do. But Sin is just between
you and God. Sermon givers avoid being honest.

Proverbs 4:23
Keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flow the springs of life.

Matthew 5:8
“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.

John 7:24
Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

 

[Long Beard]

It was said here, "The entire Old Testament is just one big story to show how the written law does not work for man."

There lies the problem... one will never see clearly with this belief...

I've not seen the biblical definition of sin mentioned so far in this discussion so let me add it...
1 John 3:4 KJV
(4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

If you sin today it is because you have transgressed against something that is still in effect today... the law. If the law were not in effect you could not sin. (Romans 5:13)

When you break God's law you sin. Jesus paid the penalty for that crime which we are all guilty of... he took the consequence of sin which is death... so if we believe in him we can be saved from that death sentence.

Because we have been pardoned do we keep sinning? Out of gratitude and love for Jesus we desire to keep his law out of our love for him. It is not burdensome... law is good.

Just like the laws of our land they are for our protection... if we are law abiding citizens we are not under the curse of the law. I have found that those who do not like law are lawbreakers.

Being obedient does not make you legalistic... it makes you obedient.

 

[Tharseo]

.

 

[dysert]

In today's world, there's "big sins" and "little sins". Homosexuality, fornication, murder, etc. are the "big ones". These are the sins that we focus on most, the ones that make us cover our mouths and look away in horror.

But what about the other sins that no one talks about? Little white lies, acting out in anger, hating someone (which is the same as murder!), disobeying our parents, pride, laziness...all these things are listed in the Bible as wrong. Yet we don't talk about them. Even adultery can get glossed over!

So when is it a sin? Why do we decide that some sins are more important than others and when does a sin become important? Why do we excuse hatred but stamp out homosexuality?

I think the issue of sin needs to be framed correctly. On the one hand, any sin, no matter how "small" separates us from God. So in that respect all sins are equal. However, on the other hand, the consequences of sins are different. So in that respect all sins are not equal. So we have to ask, are we dealing with the penalty (theologically) of sin, or are talking about the consequences of sin.

If I get drunk in the privacy of my home with no one else around, it's still a sin, but its consequences are minor. However, if I murder someone, it's obviously a sin, but its consequences are major.

 

[Tharseo]

IMO, the fact that all sins seperate us from God does not automatically make all sins equal.

1 John 5:16-17 states that clearly. And if you read Exodus and Leviticus, you will see God has different punishments for different sins, so it is clear that God makes distinctions between sins. Some sins lead to death sentence (Exodus 21:14-17; Leviticus 20:10-11) but some do not (Exodus 21:22-25; Exodus 22:1).

 

[messianist]

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”

Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

Sin of Omission/ sin of commision

 

[Swan7]

So when is it a sin? Why do we decide that some sins are more important than others and when does a sin become important? Why do we excuse hatred but stamp out homosexuality?

Sin is sin in God's eyes. If we disobey, we sin. If we lie, we sin. If we have pride or an arrogant heart, we sin. There are abominations in God's eyes as well and yet sin is still sin. If we water down God's law (which the law shows just how much we actually need God because we can't overcome on our own) then we are watering down the Gospel as well and just being lukewarm is also sinful (Revelation: the Laodician church). We need much correction from God because we live in a sinful world and we have to be careful not to conform to it.

 

[JacksBratt]

In today's world, there's "big sins" and "little sins". Homosexuality, fornication, murder, etc. are the "big ones". These are the sins that we focus on most, the ones that make us cover our mouths and look away in horror.

But what about the other sins that no one talks about? Little white lies, acting out in anger, hating someone (which is the same as murder!), disobeying our parents, pride, laziness...all these things are listed in the Bible as wrong. Yet we don't talk about them. Even adultery can get glossed over!

So when is it a sin? Why do we decide that some sins are more important than others and when does a sin become important? Why do we excuse hatred but stamp out homosexuality?

To God, there are no "big" sins and "small" sins. There is just "sin".

It is our human view that categorizes them and gives them "rank".

As far as man's laws go, yes, there are different degrees of breaking moral, ethical and criminal laws. We are punished by degree according to the infraction, the number of times we have done it and the chance of re offending.

However, with God... it is only that you have done something that is contrary to His accepted actions.

We all have sinned. Whether we fornicated, told a lie, ate too much at a buffet, gossiped, murdered, got paid under the table to save income tax, dishonored our parents.... any and all of these are sin....

Doing even one of the slightest of these.... means we are a sinner and not pure.. and need salvation.

After we are saved... doing any of the slightest of these means we could be a stumbling block and are not doing the will of God.

But, there are no "Big" sins and "little" sins... that is only in the eyes of man.

 

[Monna]

First of all there is only one sin, the original sin, into which all of man's concepts of sin are a result of. Original sin covers it all. Man put our will before the will of God. The result was a self serving being, self justifying every deed, seeking gain at the expense of others. Human being v:1:1

When is it a sin? Whenever we put our will before the will of God.

This is of course, one way to summarize all sins. But the description of "the Fall" as given in Genesis allows a multitude of "sub-sins" if you will in its interpretation.

• Disobedience: the commonest description maybe? God said, "Don't eat..." They ate.
• Lack of belief: God warned them that if they ate the fruit they would die. They didn't believe Him, and ate.
• Covetousness: The Serpent played on their desire for something beautiful, and utterly positive, that God had and they didn't. They took the bait, and wanting to be like God, they ate.
• Resentment: Part of the Serpent's strategy was to show them that God was being mean to them, and denying something to them, while giving them everything else. They didn't appreciate this; took and ate.
• Self-centredness, selfishness, self-righteousness, pride: other elements on which the Serpent played. Why shoud they be denied, weren't they good enough, they were just as deserving as God, they had the "right" to eat the fruit; they fell for this line, took and ate.
  
• Impatience: They couldn't wait until that day that God would surely let them eat the fruit; after all He had given them everything else. They couldn't wait; they ate.
• lovelessness: All the above are opposites of the character of love. Love is patient, love seeks not its own, love trusts and respects, etc.

Notice that none of these "sub-sins" are among the "big sins" that Step by Step describes in the OP. They all fall in the category of "little sins" - to quote timothyu again, our desire to belittle the importance of the "little sins" amd thereby the seriousness of the Fall and sin itself, we try to redefine sins in terms of their "seriousness." "I have not committed murder," I say, "so I am not as great a sinner as so and so." But the original sin in every one of us is thinking "I know better than God" what is right and wrong.

So confident in those personal traits man is, that man even goes so far as to not only define all sorts of sins but redefine them also by redefining the definition of good and evil to suit the deed or themselves.

The one sin that leads to death is refusing God's forgiveness.

2 Peter 3:9 (NIV)
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

 

[SkyWriting]

It was said here, "The entire Old Testament is just one big story to show how the written law does not work for man."
Being obedient does not make you legalistic... it makes you obedient.

I agree with your last line. It explains why the written law is obsolete:

Hebrews 8
12 For I will forgive their iniquities and will remember their sins no more.” 13 By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

And God has moved the idea of sin against God into our heart to decide internally when we are sinning and we will not be judged by the law:

Hebrews 10
16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord. I will put My Laws in their hearts and inscribe them on their minds.”
17 Then He adds: “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.”

 

[SkyWriting]

This is of course, one way to summarize all sins. But the description of "the Fall" as given in Genesis allows a multitude of "sub-sins" if you will in its interpretation.

• Disobedience: the commonest description maybe? God said, "Don't eat..." They ate.
• Lack of belief: God warned them that if they ate the fruit they would die. They didn't believe Him, and ate.
• Covetousness: The Serpent played on their desire for something beautiful, and utterly positive, that God had and they didn't. They took the bait, and wanting to be like God, they ate.
• Resentment: Part of the Serpent's strategy was to show them that God was being mean to them, and denying something to them, while giving them everything else. They didn't appreciate this; took and ate.
• Self-centredness, selfishness, self-righteousness, pride: other elements on which the Serpent played. Why shoud they be denied, weren't they good enough, they were just as deserving as God, they had the "right" to eat the fruit; they fell for this line, took and ate.
  
• Impatience: They couldn't wait until that day that God would surely let them eat the fruit; after all He had given them everything else. They couldn't wait; they ate.
• lovelessness: All the above are opposites of the character of love. Love is patient, love seeks not its own, love trusts and respects, etc.

Notice that none of these "sub-sins" are among the "big sins" that Step by Step describes in the OP. They all fall in the category of "little sins" - to quote timothyu again, our desire to belittle the importance of the "little sins" amd thereby the seriousness of the Fall and sin itself, we try to redefine sins in terms of their "seriousness." "I have not committed murder," I say, "so I am not as great a sinner as so and so." But the original sin in every one of us is thinking "I know better than God" what is right and wrong.

We can read scripture that explains:
- man is not qualified to judge what is sin
- the smallest sin is the same as all others
- God judges by the intentions of our heart

Matthew 7:1
“Judge not, that you be not judged.

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.

Luke 6:37
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

1 Corinthians 11:31
But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged.



Romans 2:1-3
Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

Matthew 7:1-2
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.

Romans 2:16
On that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

We are all finite, and we are judged by an infinite God. Finite things are greater or lesser with respect to each other, but they are all zero with respect to infinity.

Any sin keeps a person out of Heaven, so in that respect they are all equal. Yet, sins are not equal relative to each other. They are only equal relative to God, who is perfect. It's a paradox, in a way.

 

[paul becke]

In today's world, there's "big sins" and "little sins". Homosexuality, fornication, murder, etc. are the "big ones". These are the sins that we focus on most, the ones that make us cover our mouths and look away in horror.

But what about the other sins that no one talks about? Little white lies, acting out in anger, hating someone (which is the same as murder!), disobeying our parents, pride, laziness...all these things are listed in the Bible as wrong. Yet we don't talk about them. Even adultery can get glossed over!

So when is it a sin? Why do we decide that some sins are more important than others and when does a sin become important? Why do we excuse hatred but stamp out homosexuality?

As regards your question concerning homosexuality, I would say that it is so radically unacceptable, because it has so many dimensions to it of insufferable ugliness, both natural and supernatural.

 

[SkyWriting]

IMO, the fact that all sins seperate us from God does not automatically make all sins equal.
1 John 5:16-17 states that clearly. And if you read Exodus and Leviticus, you will see God has different punishments for different sins, so it is clear that God makes distinctions between sins. Some sins lead to death sentence (Exodus 21:14-17; Leviticus 20:10-11) but some do not (Exodus 21:22-25; Exodus 22:1).

The Old Testament written laws are obsolete. They are provided as an example of the failure of man to properly meet the law.

Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete;
and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.


James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.

 

[SkyWriting]

As regards your question concerning homosexuality, I would say that it is so radically unacceptable, because it has so many dimensions to it of insufferable ugliness, both natural and supernatural.

So then why does scripture require that you ignore it?
I hold (others) in the same esteem, as I would wish others to think about me.
This is the foundation of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets.

In everything, then,
do to others
as you would have them do to you.
For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.
Enter through the narrow gate.


How can you hold gays in a different appreciation than yourself? You can't.

 

[Tharseo]

To God, there are no "big" sins and "small" sins. There is just "sin".

However, with God... it is only that you have done something that is contrary to His accepted actions.

It is true that sin, by definition, is acting contrary to God's will (God is righteous, so anything not in compliance is unrighteous). But the "form"/"act" of sin, or what Monna described as "sub-sins", are different. Their severity and their punishment from God are different, as stated in the Old Testament.

I do agree OP that people should not ignore sins they themselves consider as "little". After all, how many of us will ever think about committing murder, adultery etc.? These "big" sins are mostly irrelevant to our spiritual lives. May our spirits be purified in the Lord day by day, and give no opportunity to even the slightest sin.

 

[paul becke]

So then why does scripture require that you ignore it?
I hold (others) in the same esteem, as I would wish others to think about me.
This is the foundation of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets.

Where did you get the idea scripture says we ignore it ? Also, I made no reference to esteem or a lack of for any individual. We are all equally precious in God's eyes, who alone, moreover, is able to judge them (i.e. particularly, in the sense of condemn them eschatalogically).