When Heaven Invades Earth

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SpiritsFire

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From the book I am currently reading.




Teaching Into an Encounter



"Anyone who doesn't have an experience with God, doesn't know God." He is a person, not a philosophy or a concept. It's time for those who have encountered God to stop pandering to fear by watering down their story. We must whet the appetites of the people of God for more. Testimony has the ability to stir up that kind of hunger.


The Holy Spirit is the dunamis of heaven. An encounter with God is often a power encounter. Such encounters vary from person to person according to God's design. And it's the lack of power encounters that lead to a misunderstanding of God and His Word. Experience is necessary in building a true knowledge of the Word. Many fear experience because it might lead away from Scripture. The mistakes of some have led many to fear experiential pursuit. But it is illegitimate to allow fear to keep us from pursuing a deeper experience with God! Embracing such fear causes a failure to the other extreme, which is culturally more acceptable, but significantly worse in eternity.


God does as He pleases. While true to His Word, He does not avoid acting outside of our understanding of it. For example, He's a loving God who hates Esau. He's the One who has been respectfully called a gentleman, yet who knocked Saul off of his donkey and picked Ezekiel up off the ground by his hair. He's the bright and morning star who veils Himself in darkness. He hates divorce, yet is Himself divorced. This list of seemingly conflicting ideas could go on for much longer than any of us could bear. Yet this uncomfortable tension is designed to keep us honest and truly dependent on the Holy Spirit for understanding who God is and what He is saying to us through His book. God is so foreign to our natural ways of thinking that we only truly see what He shows us—and we can only understand Him through relationship.


The Bible is the absolute Word of God. It reveals God; the obvious, the unexplainable, the mysterious, and sometimes offensive. It all reveals the greatness of our God. Yet it does not contain Him. God is bigger than His book.


Revival is mixed with many such dilemmas—God doing what we've never seen Him do before, all to confirm that He is whom He said in His Word. We have the inward conflict of following the One who changes not, yet promises to do a new thing in us. This becomes even more confusing when we try to fit that new thing into the mold made by our past successful experiences.


Revelation that doesn't lead to a God encounter only serves to make me more religious. Unless Scripture leads me to Him, I only become better equipped to debate with those who disagree with my way of thinking.



Any revelation from God's Word that does not lead us to an encounter with God only serves to make us more religious. The Church cannot afford "form without power," for it creates Christians without purpose.



From The Book "When Heaven Invades Earth"
By Bill Johnson, Bethel Church Redding, CA


Blessings!
 

Glenda

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I saw Bill Johnson at a conference this past week.. and he is an awesome teacher.. this was the message he taught..

God can NOT be put in a box.. (He is bigger than any box.. even when that box is the Bible)

Larry Randolph was there as well.. and he recounted the old Taco Bell commercial.. the dog has a box and a string.. and says Here, Lizard.. Lizard.. Lizard..

Then "Godzilla" comes .. and the dog says I think we need a BIGGER Box...
 
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SpiritsFire

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I saw Bill Johnson at a conference this past week.. and he is an awesome teacher.. this was the message he taught..

God can NOT be put in a box.. (He is bigger than any box.. even when that box is the Bible)

Larry Randolph was there as well.. and he recounted the old Taco Bell commercial.. the dog has a box and a string.. and says Here, Lizard.. Lizard.. Lizard..

Then "Godzilla" comes .. and the dog says I think we need a BIGGER Box...
Really? Bill Is my pastor here in Redding... Where was it you saw Bill and Larry at?
 
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SpiritsFire

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:scratch:
What am I forgetting, missing, or whatever?
Here are those scripture referances.. ( as a note though, I dont debate )


See Mal. 2:16.


"I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself [a] with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty.
So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.

See Jer. 3:8.

I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery.
 
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Atlantians

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From the book I am currently reading.

Teaching Into an Encounter

"Anyone who doesn't have an experience with God, doesn't know God." He is a person, not a philosophy or a concept. It's time for those who have encountered God to stop pandering to fear by watering down their story. We must whet the appetites of the people of God for more. Testimony has the ability to stir up that kind of hunger.

The Holy Spirit is the dunamis of heaven. An encounter with God is often a power encounter. Such encounters vary from person to person according to God's design. And it's the lack of power encounters that lead to a misunderstanding of God and His Word. Experience is necessary in building a true knowledge of the Word. Many fear experience because it might lead away from Scripture. The mistakes of some have led many to fear experiential pursuit. But it is illegitimate to allow fear to keep us from pursuing a deeper experience with God! Embracing such fear causes a failure to the other extreme, which is culturally more acceptable, but significantly worse in eternity.

God does as He pleases. While true to His Word, He does not avoid acting outside of our understanding of it. For example, He's a loving God who hates Esau. He's the One who has been respectfully called a gentleman, yet who knocked Saul off of his donkey and picked Ezekiel up off the ground by his hair. He's the bright and morning star who veils Himself in darkness. He hates divorce, yet is Himself divorced. This list of seemingly conflicting ideas could go on for much longer than any of us could bear. Yet this uncomfortable tension is designed to keep us honest and truly dependent on the Holy Spirit for understanding who God is and what He is saying to us through His book. God is so foreign to our natural ways of thinking that we only truly see what He shows us—and we can only understand Him through relationship.

The Bible is the absolute Word of God. It reveals God; the obvious, the unexplainable, the mysterious, and sometimes offensive. It all reveals the greatness of our God. Yet it does not contain Him. God is bigger than His book.

Revival is mixed with many such dilemmas—God doing what we've never seen Him do before, all to confirm that He is whom He said in His Word. We have the inward conflict of following the One who changes not, yet promises to do a new thing in us. This becomes even more confusing when we try to fit that new thing into the mold made by our past successful experiences.

Revelation that doesn't lead to a God encounter only serves to make me more religious. Unless Scripture leads me to Him, I only become better equipped to debate with those who disagree with my way of thinking.

Any revelation from God's Word that does not lead us to an encounter with God only serves to make us more religious. The Church cannot afford "form without power," for it creates Christians without purpose.

From The Book "When Heaven Invades Earth"
By Bill Johnson, Bethel Church Redding, CA

Blessings!
Well, interesting. Insightful also.
Here are a few trouble points I have:

He hates divorce, yet is Himself divorced.
Eh?
Where is this from?

God is bigger than His book.
God has also condecended himself to allow us to interpret things using this book.
So while he is infinitely more, he is infinitely revealed therin.
He is both so much more than the book, yet totally revealed therin while existing as infinitely more...ness.

What I mean is this. God is infinite and not contained in the Bible. Rather God shows us that anything in direct contradiction to the Bible is not of him, no matter what experiences, personal revelation, or revivals seems to back it up. And he says as much.

Also what does the author mean by "experience with God" and "encounter with God" he uses these phrases and terms, and then bassically says you can't define them?
If they are so varied, how can he use them as terms.
I need a deffinition for how he intends these phrases.


What I find really interesting about this book is that so many WOFers like it.
Yet this very passage from it indicates that saying "God always wants (and will) heal believers who have 'faith' nomatter what" is fundementally flawed. And it is putting God in the very Box that they say they are removing Him from.
So in the context of this passage God "always wanting to heal, but rarely doing so because it isn't his will"
fits perfectly into the other contrasts shown in this book.
What do you WOFers think of this?
 
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mc01svt

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"Anyone who doesn't have an experience with God, doesn't know God." He is a person, not a philosophy or a concept.


I have a problem with this statement. He's basically saying that if I don't have a supernatural, burning bush, earthquake, bright light experience that I don't know God.:scratch: We are saved by grace through faith, not signs and wonders.

We'll, I know God and have yet to have a supernatural experience with him. We are to walk by faith not by sight (including signs and wonders). Very few people have these types of experiences. I know God because I know and believe his word.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Theres nothing wrong with supernatural manifestations of the presence of God but if they don't happen it doesn't mean that you "don't know God" or that you are any less spiritual than the next person.

I've read the this book by the way and its a good read, but if offers no insight on deeper relationships with God.

that is all......................
 
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pauldst

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Here are those scripture referances.. ( as a note though, I dont debate )
See Mal. 2:16.
"I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself [a] with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty.
So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.
See Jer. 3:8.
I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery.
Okay, I see. Thanks.
Also what does the author mean by "experience with God" and "encounter with God" he uses these phrases and terms, and then bassically says you can't define them?
If they are so varied, how can he use them as terms.
I need a deffinition for how he intends these phrases.
Atlantians, he is talking about actually meeting God spiritually. This is hard to describe only because our language is so founded in the physical and mental. When I met my wife, Cheryl, it was through christian.matchmaker.com (now gone :( ). When I read her profile it was so much less than chatting with and then talking with her on the phone that there is almost no comparison. And then meeting her face to face...! There was no relationship until we were in two way interactive communication. In the same way, the Bible is helpful in pointing us to God and telling us about Him, but we actually don't have a relationship until we are communicating back and forth with Him, and not much of one until we are talking. When Bill Johnson talks about experiencing or encountering God I believe he is talking about going beyond the reading the profile stage and getting to where we actually interact with God in our spirits, and even our minds and bodies. So many people are just in the email or chat stage of a relationship with God, but He wants us to move deeper to the talking and in person stages. (When I say in person, I mean where God's presence impacts us physically, whether it be peace, healing, a knowing of His presence, or whatever.)
What I find really interesting about this book is that so many WOFers like it.
Yet this very passage from it indicates that saying "God always wants (and will) heal believers who have 'faith' nomatter what" is fundementally flawed. And it is putting God in the very Box that they say they are removing Him from.
So in the context of this passage God "always wanting to heal, but rarely doing so because it isn't his will"
fits perfectly into the other contrasts shown in this book.
What do you WOFers think of this?
I agree, healing no matter what is fundamentally flawed. It makes a bad assumption of God's sovereignty and denies that His plans may be beyond our understanding (I'm saying this badly, I think, I'm sorry). We are not yet in the world where there will not be sorrow and death, therefore there will be problems and death. So, Not everyone will be healed.

Faith and speaking the Word are fundamental parts of the Gospel, but they must be balanced with God's sovereignty, among other things.

From what is quoted this looks like a good book!
 
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SpiritsFire

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Well, interesting. Insightful also.
Here are a few trouble points I have:

He hates divorce, yet is Himself divorced.
Eh?
Where is this from?

God is bigger than His book.
God has also condecended himself to allow us to interpret things using this book.
So while he is infinitely more, he is infinitely revealed therin.
He is both so much more than the book, yet totally revealed therin while existing as infinitely more...ness.

What I mean is this. God is infinite and not contained in the Bible. Rather God shows us that anything in direct contradiction to the Bible is not of him, no matter what experiences, personal revelation, or revivals seems to back it up. And he says as much.

Also what does the author mean by "experience with God" and "encounter with God" he uses these phrases and terms, and then bassically says you can't define them?
If they are so varied, how can he use them as terms.
I need a deffinition for how he intends these phrases.


What I find really interesting about this book is that so many WOFers like it.
Yet this very passage from it indicates that saying "God always wants (and will) heal believers who have 'faith' nomatter what" is fundementally flawed. And it is putting God in the very Box that they say they are removing Him from.
So in the context of this passage God "always wanting to heal, but rarely doing so because it isn't his will"
fits perfectly into the other contrasts shown in this book.
What do you WOFers think of this?
Scroll up and you will see... :)
 
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