When does the Holy Ghost enter into someone?

Travis93 · Jun 25, 2016

Before baptism when you first believe? Acts 10:44-48

During baptism? Acts 2:38-41

After baptism and a believer praying and laying their hand on you? Acts 8:15-17, Acts 19:2-6

yeshuaslavejeff · Jun 26, 2016

How about when they're born again? As Jesus said "... must be born again..." (by the Father's will)

ZacharyB · Jun 26, 2016

The Holy Spirit's entrance INTO (inside) the believer
is when he/she becomes born-again.
The entrance has nothing to do with any other baptism except this:
“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church)
… and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:13)

samir · Jun 26, 2016

Travis93 said:
Before baptism when you first believe? Acts 10:44-48

During baptism? Acts 2:38-41

After baptism and a believer praying and laying their hand on you? Acts 8:15-17, Acts 19:2-6

Scripture says the Holy Spirit is received during water baptism (Acts 2:38-41) although it can occur earlier if a person loves God since John 14:21-23 says God will reveal himself and dwell with those who love Him which must have been the case in Acts 10 for those who received the Holy Spirit prior to baptism:

"Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them... Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. (John 14:21-23, NIV)"

Acts 19:2-6 also says the Holy Spirit is received during baptism. It simply specifies it's Trinitarian baptism as opposed to the baptism of John.

Regarding Acts 8:15-17, I'm not sure. It appears they are receiving an additional gift of the Holy Spirit. It sounds very similar to confirmation and Chrismation that some churches perform after baptism.

ZacharyB · Jun 27, 2016

samir said:
Scripture says the Holy Spirit is received during water baptism (Acts 2:38-41) ...

As I've explained before, Peter had absolutely NO IDEA
what had just happened on the Day of Pentecost.

IMO, anyone with a decent understanding of the NT should realize that ...
almost everyone receives the Holy Spirit BEFORE they are water baptized.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jun 27, 2016

ZacharyB said:
As I've explained before, Peter had absolutely NO IDEA
what had just happened on the Day of Pentecost.

IMO, anyone with a decent understanding of the NT should realize that ...
almost everyone receives the Holy Spirit BEFORE they are water baptized.

edit: as far as you've seen IN SCRIPTURE,
almost everyone WHO RECEIVES the ruach hakodesh does so BEFORE they are immersed.
NOTICE: when this occurs IN SCRIPTURE
and so far ONLY IN SCRIPTURE: it was OBVIOUS and SURE - nothing uncertain about this.
Not like outside of Scripture,
not like today, where there is A LOT uncertain and questionable (according TO SCRIPTURE ).

Marvin Knox · Jun 28, 2016

Travis93 said:
Before baptism when you first believe? Acts 10:44-48
During baptism? Acts 2:38-41
After baptism and a believer praying and laying their hand on you? Acts 8:15-17, Acts 19:2-6

The Holy Spirit is and always has been omni-present in all of creation. God "fills" Heaven and Earth.

Any scriptural references to what we could call "spatial" movement by the Holy Spirit such as "falling on", "baptizing in or with", "filling" etc. have nothing to do with the actual arrival of the Holy Spirit at a certain place spatially. That is true for His presence "in" believers in a simple salvational sense as well.

They have to do with "relational" presence in various senses not literal movements and arrivals.

For instance - Jesus had the Holy Spirit "in" Him from His very conception. Then we see the Holy Spirit "coming upon" Him or "filling" Him, or "baptizing" Hm at the time of His water baptism in preparation for His ministry. His relationship with the Holy Spirit immediately change and the Spirit drove Him to the wilderness for testing and He came back in the power of the Holy Spirit for ministry.

Likewise - the disciples at Pentecost in preparation for ministry. They already "had" the Holy Spirit in the most basic salvational sense before Pentecost and were told that they would be baptized at Pentecost to receive power for ministry - in like manner as the prototypical Jesus of Nazareth.

The disciples were already "born again" or made Spiritually alive long before Pentecost (no one can even accept Jesus as Lord except by the Holy Spirit). Jesus Himself was, of course, "always alive" with the Holy Spirit from His conception.

We should compile our "systematic theology" a piece at a time - building one doctrine upon another - the most basic leading on to the most difficult.

The eternally omnipresent nature of God is one of the most basic of Biblical concepts.

Not taking the basic doctrines with you as you inquire into other doctrines is one of the reasons for misunderstandings in many areas.

The proper understanding of the Holy Spirit's general relationship to the creation and His ever escalating relationship with the "elect" is but one of the areas where we need to build doctrine line upon line.

Failure to do so in this particular area seems to have led many to believe that people (at least for a time) got "saved" through baptism, tarrying, or the laying on of hands by select persons in the church. That idea, of course, is ridiculous.

It has also kept many or even most in the Church from a relationship with the Holy Spirit for ministry that the Lord clearly wants them to have.

samir · Jun 29, 2016

Marvin Knox said:
Failure to do so in this particular area seems to have led many to believe that people (at least for a time) got "saved" through baptism, tarrying, or the laying on of hands by select persons in the church. That idea, of course, is ridiculous.

The church has unanimously taught baptismal regeneration from the beginning. Since scripture says the apostles taught the faith to the bishops of the churches they founded and Hebrews states baptism is an elementary teaching it is impossible that everyone they appointed misunderstood what the apostles' taught or that everyone unanimously decided to embrace the same false doctrine on baptism shortly after the apostles' deaths.

Zwingli arrogantly wrote, in the 16th century, after rejecting baptismal regeneration:

“In this matter of baptism — if I may be pardoned for saying it — I can only conclude that all the doctors have been in error from the time of the apostles. . . . All the doctors have ascribed to the water a power which it does not have and the holy apostles did not teach.”

sdowney717 · Jun 29, 2016

samir said:
The church has unanimously taught baptismal regeneration from the beginning. Since scripture says the apostles taught the faith to the bishops of the churches they founded and Hebrews states baptism is an elementary teaching it is impossible that everyone they appointed misunderstood what the apostles' taught or that everyone unanimously decided to embrace the same false doctrine on baptism shortly after the apostles' deaths.

Zwingli arrogantly wrote, in the 16th century, after rejecting baptismal regeneration:

“In this matter of baptism — if I may be pardoned for saying it — I can only conclude that all the doctors have been in error from the time of the apostles. . . . All the doctors have ascribed to the water a power which it does not have and the holy apostles did not teach.”

When the Holy Spirit manifested Himself in some way that is visible to others, this means He has come with POWER, or FIRE of the Holy Spirit.

Of Jesus it was spoken by John, 'the water baptizer,'
Matthew 3:10
And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Everyone will be salted with Fire, Either the fire of Hell, or the fire of God's Holy Spirit in being created anew, born again. God first makes us born of God with a new spirit created in us, then God makes His home within us. There are 2 parts a water baptizing John taught here.
1. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.
2. He will baptize you with His fire which is His power, the you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you.

Nothing about water. The water baptism is the sign of a good conscience towards God of an already saved person who has that new spirit already. For no one can confess Jesus Christ as LORD except by the Holy Spirit, and unbelievers will not do that UNITL they find themselves in Hell. Every knee will bend and every tongue confess Jesus Christ as LORD. Do it now and your showing the GOOD FRUIT of God in your life, or do it later in hell.

Everyone will be seasoned with fire of some sort. Infact the ancient world was destroyed by water, but this earth and heavens to be destroyed by fire. All believers will have God's fire test their works at the judgment seat of Christ. And scripture says 'God is a consuming fire'

Hebrews 12
28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Mark 9
Tasteless Salt Is Worthless
49 “For everyone will be seasoned with fire, and every sacrifice will be seasoned with salt.
50 Salt is good, but if the salt loses its flavor, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace with one another.”

In the OT God smelled-tasted the aroma of the flesh burning and enjoyed it and was pleased. So too today, the flesh will burn and all will be seasoned with salt in God's fire. Some of our works and sacrifices will be a pleasing aroma to God's fire and survive that test, and others not, while others will burn in Hell even in the presence of Christ and the holy angels will they burn in an eternal tormenting fire.

Revelation 14:10
he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

The destiny of all Satan followers is Hell fire, forever tormented.
The destiny of all born of God is Heaven, a life with God and Christ forever of good things.

samir · Jun 29, 2016

sdowney717 said:
When the Holy Spirit manifested Himself in some way that is visible to others, this means He has come with POWER, or FIRE of the Holy Spirit.

Of Jesus it was spoken by John, 'the water baptizer,'
Matthew 3:10
And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Everyone will be salted with Fire, Either the fire of Hell, or the fire of God's Holy Spirit in being created anew, born again. God first makes us born of God with a new spirit created in us, then God makes His home within us. There are 2 parts a water baptizing John taught here.
1. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.
2. He will baptize you with His fire which is His power, the you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you.

Nothing about water. The water baptism is the sign of a good conscience towards God of an already saved person who has that new spirit already. For no one can confess Jesus Christ as LORD except by the Holy Spirit, and unbelievers will not do that UNITL they find themselves in Hell. Every knee will bend and every tongue confess Jesus Christ as LORD. Do it now and your showing the GOOD FRUIT of God in your life, or do it later in hell.

Everyone will be seasoned with fire of some sort. Infact the ancient world was destroyed by water, but this earth and heavens to be destroyed by fire. All believers will have God's fire test their works at the judgment seat of Christ. And scripture says 'God is a consuming fire'

Hebrews 12
28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Mark 9
Tasteless Salt Is Worthless
49 “For everyone will be seasoned with fire, and every sacrifice will be seasoned with salt.
50 Salt is good, but if the salt loses its flavor, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace with one another.”

In the OT God smelled-tasted the aroma of the flesh burning and enjoyed it and was pleased. So too today, the flesh will burn and all will be seasoned with salt in God's fire. Some of our works and sacrifices will be a pleasing aroma to God's fire and survive that test, and others not, while others will burn in Hell even in the presence of Christ and the holy angels will they burn in an eternal tormenting fire.

Revelation 14:10
he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

The destiny of all Satan followers is Hell fire, forever tormented.
The destiny of all born of God is Heaven, a life with God and Christ forever of good things.

If the early church that gave us the bible was wrong about baptism then they aren't an authority. If they aren't an authority, then we have no way of knowing which books are scripture.

sdowney717 · Jun 29, 2016

samir said:
If the early church that gave us the bible was wrong about baptism then there aren't an authority. If they aren't an authority, then we have no way of knowing which books are scripture.

That is hardly true, as you should realize.
All of these are IN the visible church, false teachers, fierce savage wolves, ungodly men, false brethren, false Christs, and are in positions of an authority.
They are there to test the saints, God sets one against the other to show forth those that are true, those that have His divine approval. At the judgment the secrets of mens hearts will all be revealed.

Paul warned this.
Acts 20:29
For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.

Peter warned this
2 Peter 2New King James Version (NKJV)
Destructive Doctrines
2 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

Jude warned this
Contend for the Faith
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

sdowney717 · Jun 29, 2016

1 Peter 4:12-13

Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation.

James 1:2-4

Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

samir · Jun 29, 2016

sdowney717 said:
That is hardly true, as you should realize.
All of these are IN the visible church, false teachers, fierce savage wolves, ungodly men, false brethren, false Christs, and are in positions of an authority.
They are there to test the saints, God sets one against the other to show forth those that are true, those that have His divine approval. At the judgment the secrets of mens hearts will all be revealed.

Paul warned this.
Acts 20:29
For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.

Peter warned this
2 Peter 2New King James Version (NKJV)
Destructive Doctrines
2 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

Jude warned this
Contend for the Faith
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I'm fully aware there are false prophets in the church. Baptismal regeneration wasn't taught by an isolated number of false prophets. It was the unanimous teaching of the church everywhere from the beginning. Jesus promised his church would not be led astray so it's not possible everyone in the church was a false prophet.

If you believe the people who met in the 4th century to determine the New Testament canon were false prophets, why would you rely on them to tell you which books are scripture?

Marvin Knox · Jun 29, 2016

samir said:
The church has unanimously taught baptismal regeneration from the beginning.

The church has not "unanimously" taught baptismal regeneration from the beginning.

Obviously water baptismal regeneration is your thing and I won't argue it with you.

You are wrong.

samir said:
it can occur earlier if a person loves God since John 14:21-23 says God will reveal himself and dwell with those who love Him which must have been the case in Acts 10 for those who received the Holy Spirit prior to baptism:

Apparently you've charted out a path that gives you the best of both doctrinal worlds.

Good job - I suppose.

How convenient for you to be able to teach a doctrine one way and still have the luxury to teach "exceptions" to the rule when scripture shows otherwise.

samir · Jun 29, 2016

Marvin Knox said:
The church has not "unanimously" taught baptismal regeneration from the beginning.

You are wrong.

Do you have any evidence that anyone in the church rejected baptismal regeneration during the first 1,000 years after Christ?

How convenient to for you to be able to teach a doctrine one way and still have the luxury to teach "exceptions" to the rule when scripture shows otherwise.

Not my doctrine but the teaching of scripture and taught by the church from the earliest centuries. I noticed you didn't offer any scriptural evidence for your claims.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jun 29, 2016

Marvin Knox said:
The proper understanding of the Holy Spirit's general relationship to the creation and His ever escalating relationship with the "elect" is but one of the areas where we need to build doctrine line upon line.
Failure to do so in this particular area seems to have led many to believe that people (at least for a time) got "saved" through baptism, tarrying, or the laying on of hands by select persons in the church. That idea, of course, is ridiculous.
It has also kept many or even most in the Church from a relationship with the Holy Spirit for ministry that the Lord clearly wants them to have.

I disagree. The disciples didn't understand everything, but as long as they did what Jesus says to do, they were "fine". When they disobeyed, He corrected them. (or, worse, .... for some).
When the disciples today obey Jesus, doing everything He says to do (most don't ever do the very first step!), then He guides them(us), teaches them(us), directs them(us), protects them(us), chastises and disciplines them(us) to keep us in the right way(His Way).

Circle Christ · Jul 3, 2016

Travis93 said:
Before baptism when you first believe? Acts 10:44-48

During baptism? Acts 2:38-41

After baptism and a believer praying and laying their hand on you? Acts 8:15-17, Acts 19:2-6

We receive the Holy Spirit simply by accepting the Lord Jesus Christ is our Savior. We are indwelt by God's Holy Spirit the moment we believe. John chapter 3. Praise God in the Highest.

samir · Jul 3, 2016

Circle Christ said:
We receive the Holy Spirit simply by accepting the Lord Jesus Christ is our Savior. We are indwelt by God's Holy Spirit the moment we believe. John chapter 3. Praise God in the Highest.

Did you remove Acts 2 from your bible? Why don't you agree with it?

Circle Christ · Jul 3, 2016

samir said:
Did you remove Acts 2 from your bible? Why don't you agree with it?

I believe you are addressing your remarks to the wrong person in the wrong thread. Nothing I have said requires that reply. Please check your sources.

TaylorSexton · Jul 14, 2016

The Holy Spirit is received when one believes.

If someone does not have the Holy Spirit, they are not a Christian:
"If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ." —Romans 8:9b

If someone does not have the Holy Spirit, they are not part of the Church:
"We were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body." —1 Corinthians 12:13a

If someone does not have the Holy Spirit, they do not live in Christ, nor Christ in them:
"This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit." —1 John 4:13

When does the Holy Ghost enter into someone?

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