When does "lust" become a sin?

[NicelyAged]

"Next week, I'm invited to a pool party. I would be seeing her in a swimsuit for the first time. I am concerned that this could feed my lust"

** JAKG Bud, you should consider chilling out on this. If you see your SO in a swimsuit and you find that sexually arousing, that's how it's supposed to work. God designed women to be pleasing to a man's visual sexuality. You're not lusting. Also, you should be having sexual thoughts about your future wife. If you weren't, I'd be concerned about whether a long term relationship is a good decision.

 

[septemberskies]

Great topic.

I consider this to be one of the most misinterpreted verses in the entire Bible.

This translation makes it clear what Jesus really meant. Lustful INTENT - that is, PLANNING or ATTEMPTING to have out-of-wedlock sex. Another translation is "lusts AFTER". This translation also suggests a plan or attempt. Is sexual fantasy a plan or attempt? Clearly not. Therefore, sexual fantasy is okay provided you are fantasizing about married sex rather than casual sex, violent sex or other immoral sexual situations. In my view, if you fantasize about having sex within marriage with a devout Christian partner, you are doing no wrong.
[/font]

So I guess if i imagine a wedding ring on my finger then its ok? Nah, I don't think so... well i know so because the Lord convicted me about this very thing not even all of 2 months ago. I really tried hard to justify my thinking but the Lord was clear on this one. If you're not married then you shouldn't be fantasizing about such things. Granted we are human (and these things do come to mind) but this is clearly lusting when your dwelling on things of a sexual nature no matter how you spin the wheel.

 

[MrHeart]

Your guilt is probably the result of social conditioning. I have a very active conscience, yet I've never felt guilty about proper sexual fantasy.

 

[MN John]

"Next week, I'm invited to a pool party. I would be seeing her in a swimsuit for the first time. I am concerned that this could feed my lust"

** JAKG Bud, you should consider chilling out on this. If you see your SO in a swimsuit and you find that sexually arousing, that's how it's supposed to work. God designed women to be pleasing to a man's visual sexuality. You're not lusting. Also, you should be having sexual thoughts about your future wife. If you weren't, I'd be concerned about whether a long term relationship is a good decision.

Ok, So here's my thinking. She's not my wife now, so I shouldn't fantasize about sex with her now. I already desire her and have had a dream that would not be appropriate as a waking thought. At this point, we are not yet engaged, so there is a possibility that she's not my actual future wife after all. If that turns out to be the case, then there was never an appropriate time to fantasize about sex with her. We are both doing our best to remain pure for God, for each other, and for ourselves and our future spouses (and we hope that list contains redundancies). We are remaining physically pure although it is not always easy to resist temptation. But we want to remain mentally/spiritually pure too. This is where seeing more of her most-enticing body could cause me a problem ... mentally/spiritutually or even physically.

Yes, I agree that it is a good thing that I desire her. But too explicite of thoughts about that would be wrong at this time.

 

[Johnnz]

Jakg,

I understand what you are saying. But NicelyAged is also right.

You really must sort out the difference between normal human sexuality and lust. God made us to be sexually aroused by the opposite sex. That means guys can have sexual thoughts and quite frequently with them an erection. This is normal sexual stimulus- response. Sadly, much Christian teaching strongly implies that any sexual feeling or though is lust. That is so wrong.

I agree that you should not be fantasising about sex with her if you are not comitted to each other. But you will have sexual feelings and thoughts from time to time. Don't beat up on yourself, but don't give them free reign either.

If you have feelings for her you will experience sexual arousal. That's how God made us. We don't remain asexual until engagement or marriage. If you see her in a swimsuit that will set you going. Pretty normal too. You may well respond the same way to any attractive young thing in body revealing swimwear.

The real key to all of this is a twofold understanding.

1 Sexual creatures (most people) respond to a sexual stimulus (most people). Normal human sexuality!

2. When Jesus spoke about our hearts he located the source of real purity. When I learn to regard any woman most importantly as a person precious to God, and not primarily as a body, however attractive she is, and however that affects me sexually, I will not lust after her. I will, in spite of any sexual feelings, deliberately think and act without wrong sexual desires (i.e lust). Wrongful lust occurs only when I am sexually aroused in some way and I deliberately embark on thoughts and/or actions that lead to breaking God's laws about the place of sex in our lives. Whether it is 'heavy petting' or jumping into bed with a woman I am therby allowing sexual urges to usurp my primary responsibility to see a woman as a person, not as a body.

Accepting normal, healthy, God given sexuality is a much better way to integrate our sex drive into our lives than trying to act as if it is wrong to have any sex drive prior to marriage. Volcanos can errupt quite unexpectedly.

John
NZ

 

[MN John]

You've got several good points there. Thanks, John.

Part of my thinking is that just as there are many actions that will be pure after we are married but would not be pure now, there are also many thoughts related to those actions that will be pure after we are married but are not pure now. Those are the thoughts that I want to avoid for the present time.

If you have feelings for her you will experience sexual arousal. That's how God made us. We don't remain asexual until engagement or marriage. If you see her in a swimsuit that will set you going. Pretty normal too. You may well respond the same way to any attractive young thing in body revealing swimwear.

One thing that both amazes and pleases me is that I find it no problem to look away from or ignore any other attractive young thing! It's very reassuring to me that fleeing other temptation is a fairly easy thing to me. It makes me feel as if my sex drive was created just for my future wife only! That's really cool! I can just look away from other women, they don't catch my eye. Sara's beauty and attractiveness starts deep inside and radiates out. God does such neat things! We are truly fearfully and wonderfully made!

 

[NicelyAged]

Hey JAKG!

Look at it this way. If all it takes to you get you going is seeing your SO in a swimsuit, that will make things really easy for her when you get married, and better yet, it's doubtful Viagra will be in your future LOL!! ;-)

 

[MN John]

You're right on that aspect, brother. I have mentioned in other threads that when I first saw and met Sara I was unimpressed either positively or negatively by her physically. But as I got to know and love her spirit, the shell became more and more attractive to me as well. The first physical features that I fell for were her eyes, her smile, and the sound of her laughter. Now I am enthralled by things like the tiny scar on her chin, the little crinkly lines next to her eyes and around her dimples. You know, things that reflect her character and uniqueness rather than things that would typically be sought after in descibing what a beautiful person looks like. Now all of the other parts that usually attract a man also entice me ... and I couldn't for the life of me tell you whether a year ago I would have been more attracted to a different "configuration". My image of the feminine ideal has been replaced by her size, her shape, her tone, her length, breadth, and width, her color and shading. It's actually rather a wonderful mystery how this could happen! If I could change3 any physical thing about her, I couldn't think of one! The only thing I could say is whatever would make her feel best about herself. Funny how it can take 40-some years to learn what true beauty is. And God's timing is perfect too. Because she was not the exact same person until just the right time that I met her. When I sometimes wish that I had met her 25 years earlier, I realize that she would never have become the Sara I love without going through those years the way she did.

OK, so long story short - I desire her strongly and have to call upon the Holy Spirit to give me strength to keep my thoughts and actions honoring to god and to Sara. There, we're getting back on topic. Thank you, everyone for your assurances. I appreciate the advice. I understand that I am reacting in the way that God created us to. But I also appreciate your prayers to help me keep the thoughts and actions that belong to us as husband and wife contained until we are husband and wife.

John

 

[Niels]

I think of lust as the state of actually wanting to have sex with someone. This is different than simply being aroused, and different than having a sexy fantasy. That's not to say that you have to get physical with someone to lust, rather that you truly desire to have sex with them. To me, to desire a woman in my heart indicates a motive that runs deep... something that would involve intention, the goal of getting physical with her, and at least some sort of plan for a possible act. If a woman in lingerie appears on the TV screen, even if I find the imagery erotically suggestive, it's not enough to make me lust in such a way. Might I think she is attractive? Yes. Would I actually want to have sex with her? That's unlikely, no matter how beautiful she may be. I'm saving that for my wife, as she will be more than just another pretty face. That said, I'm sure I'll have a very difficult time trying to not lust after her before we tie the knot... because I truly will desire her in my heart!

Edit: In other words, I think lust is more about planning/hoping to have sex with someone, rather than simply being physically attracted to them.

 

[septemberskies]

Your guilt is probably the result of social conditioning. I have a very active conscience, yet I've never felt guilty about proper sexual fantasy.

Nope, it was the Holy Spirit not "social conditioning". This i'm positive of.