when does life begin?

[halfpastseven]

when does life begins, people have different answers to this question but i dont know if anyone looks at it the way i do, i feal that all of my sperm have a life, i mean they have the instinct to swim and try to find there way to the egg so they are all very much alive, really they are the essence of life
if someone asked me how old i am, i really cant tell you, cause i would have to add on the nine months i was inside my mother and add on how ever long it was i was inside my father, which i dont know, and its kinda funny to think about how we all use to live inside other people, for all we know we could be living inside god right now, that is also one way that the universe could be never ending, something else to is that when i was a sperm i probably would have never thought that i would make it to a place where i would grow a head and arms and legs and this whole body, thats one reason why when i leave this form i think i will take on another form and life will still continue for me and all of you
the struggle of a sperm is alot like the struggle of humans, its like we all had the instinct to swim and find our way here and even now we all have the instincted to find our way to something else when we leave here and thats why we all search for the proper guidence from god, so that we can make it to where ever it is he wants us to be

i would just like to know where others stand on this topic, it is real crazy and mind boggling to me

 

[elman]

when does life begins, people have different answers to this question but i dont know if anyone looks at it the way i do, i feal that all of my sperm have a life, i mean they have the instinct to swim and try to find there way to the egg so they are all very much alive, really they are the essence of life
if someone asked me how old i am, i really cant tell you, cause i would have to add on the nine months i was inside my mother and add on how ever long it was i was inside my father, which i dont know, and its kinda funny to think about how we all use to live inside other people, for all we know we could be living inside god right now, that is also one way that the universe could be never ending, something else to is that when i was a sperm i probably would have never thought that i would make it to a place where i would grow a head and arms and legs and this whole body, thats one reason why when i leave this form i think i will take on another form and life will still continue for me and all of you
the struggle of a sperm is alot like the struggle of humans, its like we all had the instinct to swim and find our way here and even now we all have the instincted to find our way to something else when we leave here and thats why we all search for the proper guidence from god, so that we can make it to where ever it is he wants us to be

i would just like to know where others stand on this topic, it is real crazy and mind boggling to me

I agree it is a mind boggling and unanswerable question. We can only speculate. I see the potential for physical and spiritual life in the sperm, but not life that is meaningful. I see the potential for life in a baby, but I don't see a baby as an entity capable of love. I believe we are all born physically and spiritually alive, but I don't think we truly spiritually exist in a meaningful way until we can respond to love with love. I think it would be very wrong to harm a baby without a valid reason, i.e. treating it for a disease or disorder, but I feel no guilt over wasing the sperm down the sink.

 

[Soul_Searcher]

Hi 7:30,

"when does life begin?"

Just my $.02, but it never ends, so how could it begin?

 

[Blackguard_]

Sperm don't have souls, neither do eggs. Life begins when the soul enters the body, but I am not sure when that is.

but it never ends, so how could it begin?

Because time isn't circular. Humans exist in time, and the age to come (the new heaven and earth) is an infinite stretch of time.

ins't |-------->(sideways 8 symbol) a valid construct?

 

[FSTDT]

Sperm don't have souls, neither do eggs. Life begins when the soul enters the body, but I am not sure when that is.

Souls are a religious creation, having nothing really to do with the real world. However, even if we imagined they exist, theres no contradiction between saying something is alive but doesn't have a soul, such as plants and bacteria.

Basically all living things have metabolism in common, they grow, and they're made of cells. That definition would be inclusive enough to account for sperm (which are living cells), plants, and people.

Because time isn't circular. Humans exist in time, and the age to come (the new heaven and earth) is an infinite stretch of time.

I think our current physics suggest time is actually a function of space, so when there was no distance in the universe there was no time either, implying there is a point in time we can call t=0. So time is finite.

]ins't |-------->(sideways 8 symbol) a valid construct?

You mean infinity? I don't know what "valid construct" means, but if it means anything to you, you can't perform mathematical operations on infinities (i.e. infinity * 0 is undefined, 1^infinity is also undefined).

 

[Blackguard_]

theres no contradiction between saying something is alive but doesn't have a soul, such as plants and bacteria.

yes, but I assumed this thread was in the context of " is abortion murder?". Which would depend on the living thing having a human soul.

Anyways, going by your definition of life, your life does not begin until conception becasue the sperm or egg is not you. it is at best half of what will be you.

And this leads to a personality identiy issue. I identify with a soul, while I do not know what the OP considers to be 'you'. i.e. is the sperm/egg you? I think its at best half of you.

And to the OP, you are about as old as your mom by your reckoning. Women are born with all their eggs IIRC.

I think our current physics suggest time is actually a function of space, so when there was no distance in the universe there was no time either, implying there is a point in time we can call t=0.

oh right, the whole "4th dimension" thing.

So time is finite.

But isn't that only if space is finite? I thought space was infinite, or at least expanding into infinity. Or to rephrase what I said earlier the next age will be an infinite stretch of space-time.

You mean infinity? I don't know what "valid construct" means, but if it means anything to you, you can perform mathematical operations on infinities (i.e. infinity * 0 is undefined, 1^infinity is also undefined).

I meant, an infinity can have a begining and no end right? For example counting from 5 to infinity. So time could have a begining without an end right? Or by what you said above, time began whan t was greater then zero, and t would stretch into infinty if space did, thus time having a begining but no end.

Or what did you mean by...

but it never ends, so how could it begin?

I took it to be a reference to the idea of ever lasting life and time.

 

[halfpastseven]

but I don't think we truly spiritually exist in a meaningful way until we can respond to love with love. quote]

isnt it love that happens to bring forth sperm, and we not the result of love

soul searcher
"so how could it begin?"
it doesnt it is the same as everything else, it has no begining and has no ending
i thought you might say something like this

fstdt
"so when there was no distance in the universe there was no time either"
when was there no distance?
time is illusive

"you can perform mathematical operations on infinities"
our lives are one of them

 

[halfpastseven]

jer 1:5 "before i was forming you in the belly i knew you..."

 

[Blackguard_]

isnt it love that happens to bring forth sperm, and we not the result of love

or lust. and then there's rape victims...

jer 1:5 "before i was forming you in the belly i knew you..."

1. That doesn't mean much coming from a god present in all time/space and beyond. God knew you before time even began, much less when you were a sperm if that's what you think this verse means.

2. It shoots down your sperm argument; "forming you in the belly". Sperm would be "formed in loins", or some reference to "seed".

it doesnt it is the same as everything else, it has no begining and has no ending
i thought you might say something like this

Life, our souls if thats what you mean, defintely had a begining. Creation is not co-eternal with God.

our lives are one of them

only if you mean "endless" but with a begining, and are given the gift of ever lasting life. Not everyone lives forever. Lots of souls will be destroyed in the lake of fire.

I think our current physics suggest time is actually a function of space, so when there was no distance in the universe there was no time either, implying there is a point in time we can call t=0.

wait, how could the universe exist without space? Or is it just a hypothetical and as long as the universe exists t has to be something more than 0?

 

[Soul_Searcher]

Hi Blackguard,

"Sperm don't have souls, neither do eggs. Life begins when the soul enters the body, but I am not sure when that is."

How do you know sperms and eggs don't have souls? I believe every atom is a part of God.

"Because time isn't circular."

Not as we view it, but that doesn't make it so.

"Humans exist in time, and the age to come (the new heaven and earth) is an infinite stretch of time."

Time and space are just illusions. God exists outside of time, and when we realize we are one with God, time ceases to have much meaning.

 

[halfpastseven]

or lust. and then there's rape victims...



1. That doesn't mean much coming from a god present in all time/space and beyond. God knew you before time even began, much less when you were a sperm if that's what you think this verse means.

2. It shoots down your sperm argument; "forming you in the belly". Sperm would be "formed in loins", or some reference to "seed".



Life, our souls if thats what you mean, defintely had a begining. Creation is not co-eternal with God.



only if you mean "endless" but with a begining, and are given the gift of ever lasting life. Not everyone lives forever. Lots of souls will be destroyed in the lake of fire.



wait, how could the universe exist without space? Or is it just a hypothetical and as long as the universe exists t has to be something more than 0?

someone loves to lust or loves to rape, thats why they do it, even tho it is wrong, love is still there

so when god knew me before time existed, did i not know god also, just god even having an idea of me, i would consider being alive in that, i would still be a part of something thats alive

creation is not co-eternal with god
how is it not?

when did gods life begin
it had no begining
and if we were created in his image than why would this be any different for us

i have galaxies living inside me

yes everything is one with god

 

[elman]

but I don't think we truly spiritually exist in a meaningful way until we can respond to love with love. quote]

isnt it love that happens to bring forth sperm, and we not the result of love

No sex maybe but not love. Love is action on behalf of someone else.

 

[Soul_Searcher]

Hi 7:30,

"someone loves to lust or loves to rape, thats why they do it, even tho it is wrong, love is still there"

There is no love there; they may enjoy it, but that's nothing to do with love on any level.

"so when god knew me before time existed, did i not know god also, just god even having an idea of me, i would consider being alive in that, i would still be a part of something thats alive"

I think on this level we are drops of water in the ocean - not cognizant of who we are, but yes, alive in some manner of speaking.

"when did god's life begin; it had no begining"

Here is a thought to ponder my friend: let's define God as the Universal Consciousness that binds us all and drives existence. Since we, in our finite state, cannot really comprehend eternity, let alone timelessness, can we postulate that God came into 'existence' with self-awareness? What do you think?

 

[Blackguard_]

How do you know sperms and eggs don't have souls?

Becasue they can't percieve.

I believe every atom is a part of God.

How does that mean it has a soul? Does every sub-atomic particle have soul?

What do you think the soul is?

Not as we view it, but that doesn't make it so.

So you believe time is circular? I never understood how that worked. Is it like recording a tape all the way through and starting at the begining again? I can't picture time as being other than lines.

God exists outside of time,

..and in it.

and when we realize we are one with God, time ceases to have much meaning.

How so?

 

[Blackguard_]

someone loves to lust or loves to rape, thats why they do it, even tho it is wrong, love is still there

You're grasping at straws. love isn't always a good thing, such as when its of evil.

so when god knew me before time existed, did i not know god also,

No you did not. How could you, you weren't created yet.Please don't tell me you think you are non-created...

just god even having an idea of me, i would consider being alive in that, i would still be a part of something thats alive

no. having an idea of something doesn't make it a part of you. You watch too many movies with sentimental death scenes.

You, and especially God, can have knowledge of things outside of yourself. This world is evil, is evil a part of God? God certainly thinks about evil wouldn't you say?

 

[Blackguard_]

how is it not?

Becasue it was created, what necessitates a begining. How can you create something without a begining?

when did gods life begin
it had no begining
and if we were created in his image than why would this be any different for us

I don't think thats what that phrase refers to. Are you all-powerful and all-knowing too?

you were created, meaning at some point you didn't exist and then you did. And you ony have infinite life i.e. are endless becasue of the gift of Jesus.

And while God's knowledge and thoughts of you had no begining, those thoughts are not you.

What do you consider 'you'?

i have galaxies living inside me

And I'm sorry, but movies starring the Fresh Prince are not authorative.

 

[Soul_Searcher]

Hi Blackguard,

"Becasue they can't percieve. "

Really? Hmm. Why/how did you come up with this criteria?

"How does that mean it has a soul? Does every sub-atomic particle have soul? What do you think the soul is?"

Yes, because all if of God, and the soul is the connection to God--if all are connected, all have souls. What is your definition?

"So you believe time is circular?"

Actually, I believe time is an illusion.

"I never understood how that worked. Is it like recording a tape all the way through and starting at the begining again? I can't picture time as being other than lines."

But that's just your perception--could be right, could be wrong. Try this, just for fun: sit still for a minute looking out a window or stare at a poster or something, then remove your attention from whatever and ask yourself, "Where did that moment go?" And just ponder that for a while; see what you come up with.

"..and in it."

Not if time isn't real.

"How so?"

Have you never had time 'slow down' during something intense happening to you? Have you never had time 'speed up' and pass you by? Has time ever stood still for you while you pondered something? (see exercise above )

Have you ever been touched by/enfolded by God and had a timeless moment?

 

[Soul_Searcher]

Hi Blackguard,

Pardon my butting in...

"No you did not. How could you, you weren't created yet. Please don't tell me you think you are non-created..."

You're thinking in finite terms, not eternal terms. We ALL exist within God, and separate (another illusion) for moments at a time... so to speak.

"no. having an idea of something doesn't make it a part of you."

That's not necessarily true. We may be tapping into the universal knowledge that is God, that is existence.

"This world is evil, is evil a part of God?"

I don't think this world is evil at all, but all is part of God.

"God certainly thinks about evil wouldn't you say?"

Not at all. God is beyond such judgments; just because the Bible says something doesn't make it so.

"Are you all-powerful and all-knowing too?"

In our oneness with God, yes. However, we choose to believe we are not one with God, and only tap into certain parts and aspects of the whole, yet we do have the potential--as Jesus did and taught--to realize our oneness.

"And you ony have infinite life i.e. are endless becasue of the gift of Jesus."

That's not what Jesus said; we already HAVE eternal life, we just have to realize it--faith being one of the biggest aspects of that realization/enlightenment.

"What do you consider 'you'?"

God. I can only perceive myself through my perception of the universe around me; I am a facet of the infinite diamond that is God.

"And I'm sorry, but movies starring the Fresh Prince are not authorative."

Maybe you should try studying particle physics and see about those galaxies.

 

[elman]

love isn't always a good thing, such as when its of evil.

Love as in love your neighbor is never evil. If an act is evil it is not a loving act.

 

[halfpastseven]

i would resond but it seems as if soul searcher has spoke alot of the same answers that i would have

but lets see

oh yeah, the love is not a connection between the two people all the time but maybe their love has something to do with the thought of knowing there is a chance for their offspring to make it somewhere, that survival and the fealing that goes along with it, who doesnt love the fealing alone

your statement of watching movies is quite funny but nuthing i speak of comes from any such thing
especially the one about will smith, i really dont watch those silly types of movies, and i know not of the one you speak of

i can have an idea of a picture i want to paint, and then paint it
did that picture not exist before i painted it?
of course it did, and if i died before painting it, it would still exist in my memory, so ultimately it was and is a part of me, and always will be

blackguard
so what about those that dont recieve the gift of jesus or have a chance to but choose not to recieve it, are they just counted out?