when do you forgive?

[drich0150]

When is enough, enough??? How long is too long to sulk? What if the abuser is still abusing? What then? What about the rest of the family who maybe caught in the cross fire, do you forgive the abuser for there sake?

 

[Johnnz]

Forgiveness is not always the first step. If he is still abusing you it is not even appropriate right now. That can just allow him to go on using you because you aren't sufficiently aggressive in opposing him.

Can you get out of the opportunities he has to still abuse you?

John
NZ

 

[drich0150]

I'll be 33 this year and that'll make it 6 years since I've seen/spoke to him. but my mother is still in that mess. If you want more details it listed in Edification,Christian Advise, What do I do with:Mother and what do I do with: him..

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

When is enough, enough??? How long is too long to sulk?

I'm knot really sure,I think it depends on the person and what happened to them.Really abuse and forgive might take the rest or there life.

What if the abuser is still abusing? What then?

I'm really knot sure someone can really fully forgive someone while there being abuse.Because when it stops and your out of that situation the memories of abuse might hit harder when you realize how terrible it was and how they violated you .

What about the rest of the family who maybe caught in the cross fire, do you forgive the abuser for there sake?

You can't forgive someone for just the sake of a family if your knot ready too forgive.As for me I been abuse by several people and sometimes I think I forgave them and other times I'm really knot sure.Sometimes the emotional pain is so unbearable,I'm knot sure if it's the emotional pain from what happened or knot forgiving them or both.I fill I lost a lot of thing out of abuse and hurt a lot of people because of the abuse and that's what hurts me the most right know.

 

[drich0150]

I know this sounds crazy, but all the "mess" my father put us thru I never considered "abuse", well not till after I got married anyway. I was always "told" people screw up and if i didn't like something change it when it was my turn to raise a family. That's what I've done. My issue isn't nessarly about me or personal pain, not that I couldn't write a book on it. It's about doing the right thing regaurdless of my feelings.

What would God have me do. for I am a servant Who owes his master a Great deal, that he has forgiven me for.. In turn my dad owes me very little for the pain and suffering of "being under his roof" and the property he has cheated me out of, in compairson.. I doesn't sit right with me for being forgiven my sins, and holding accountable for his, espically the way it effects my mother. My feelings aside What is the right thing to do?

 

[Kizza]

Forgiveness has nothing to do with abuse. In fact, it doesn't require any involvement from anybody else in any way. To forgive is to give up feelings of resentment in favour of good will.

Forgiveness has nothing to do with tolerating negative behaviour. I meet to many Christians who let others walk all over them. Jesus pulled people up left, right and centre. He just had a different way of going about it. Being assertive does not mean becoming offensive. It does mean bringing someone's attention to behaviours that may hurt people and negatively affect their relationships with others.

"You always (insert text here)" is always likely to bring about confrontation.

"I feel (insert text here) when you (insert text here)" is likely to make a person think about the way their behaviour impacts you.

I pray that God will send his Holy Spirit to intervene in your situations. I pray that He will give you strength and guidance.

Jesus says "Fear not, for I will give you the words to say."

Trust in the Lord. Have confidence not only in Him but in His power to work through you.

You are a child of God. Let your light shine in the darkness.

Kizza.

 

[nowhereville]

Forgiveness is not a feeling.

Forgiveness can happen in one step or many steps.

it is not a band aid to apply over the pain - the pain needs to be dealt with and flushed out by the Holy Spirit.

You can not save your Mother - it is your Mother's job to save herself with the help of God. In this you must be strong - you can only save yourself. Jesus is the only Savior worth calling.

 

[drich0150]

Forgiveness has nothing to do with abuse. In fact, it doesn't require any involvement from anybody else in any way. To forgive is to give up feelings of resentment in favour of good will.

Forgiveness has nothing to do with tolerating negative behaviour. I meet to many Christians who let others walk all over them. Jesus pulled people up left, right and centre. He just had a different way of going about it. Being assertive does not mean becoming offensive. It does mean bringing someone's attention to behaviours that may hurt people and negatively affect their relationships with others.

"You always (insert text here)" is always likely to bring about confrontation.

"I feel (insert text here) when you (insert text here)" is likely to make a person think about the way their behaviour impacts you.

I pray that God will send his Holy Spirit to intervene in your situations. I pray that He will give you strength and guidance.

Jesus says "Fear not, for I will give you the words to say."

Trust in the Lord. Have confidence not only in Him but in His power to work through you.

You are a child of God. Let your light shine in the darkness.

Kizza.

The problem with "him" is that you can speak of anything negitive what so ever. over years and years of drinking and justifying his actions (I think) he truly belives he's done nothing wrong ever!

Isn't there some need of repentance? isn't that foundational to forgiveness? is there a biblical example of forgiveness without some sort of repentance? Are we supposed to live this way? for the sake of goodwill?

Ok that being said, when are your needs, exceeded by others? What about the week and opressed? when do we start? where do we stop? is there scripture that tells us? i read thru the NT, but do not have a understanding of the OT. so I truly don't know.

 

[drich0150]

Forgiveness is not a feeling.

Forgiveness can happen in one step or many steps.

it is not a band aid to apply over the pain - the pain needs to be dealt with and flushed out by the Holy Spirit.

You can not save your Mother - it is your Mother's job to save herself with the help of God. In this you must be strong - you can only save yourself. Jesus is the only Savior worth calling.

I'm not in any danger or any real pain.
To be honest most of the time I don't even think of any of it unless he goes on a drunk calling rampage from eleven to one or two AM, or when I try to speak to my mother to try and do something that will include her and she "can't" or this time around I offered someone some advise on a crazy dad problem that kinda mirrored my own.. Other wise I burn myself out over what ever it is this time, and after acouple of weeks, go back to my normal life..

But that in of itself is the real problem. I need a scriptural answer what ever it is to "be well with my soul" (advise) is good for coping but don't think I need to cope with anything. What I need is: What does God say to do and be to done with this mess.

 

[Criada]

Mark 11:25
And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."

It is a command, not an option!
And it is very hard, I know.
But God never asks anything of us without giving us the grace to do it.

Praying for you brother!

(And remember, forgiveness does not mean allowing wrongdoing to continue unchallenged)

 

[drich0150]

Soo, how exactly can you "Challenge sin" from someone who will not admit to EVER doing anything wrong? When simon the sorcer tried to buy, the power of the spirit from Peter and John, peter effectively dams him to hell, and casts him from the ministry for his action, but simon repents and asks peter to intercede for him.

So some of my original questions remain: "Isn't there some need of repentance? isn't that foundational to forgiveness? is there a biblical example of forgiveness without some sort of repentance? Are we supposed to live this way? for the sake of goodwill?"

Look I'm not holding on to anger for the sake of anger and I'm to the point of letting the past go... but... HE IS THE STILL THE SAME. YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND if he lives long enough Tomorrow as well.

He still drinks, he still gets violent, lies, cheats on my mother, steals and whole host of other bad things (Just to his family..) the closest thing he's ever come to any kinda apology was. (during his "faked" stroke/heart attack) HIM: "I'm only going to offer this once, I may not have been perfect, but no one is. And I'm willing to admit you may have had it a little rougher than the neighbors kids, but you turned out better for it. So I think we should wipe the slate clean and start over.." He extends his hand for a shake...

I asked: "What about the drinking?" Him: "It's handled" (I still get 2 to 3 hour "Drunk" calls in the middle of the night sometimes. My sister went over there and she and my niece gets pummeled by him, (while drunk) because the niece (6) ate a piece of cake he was looking foward to eating...

I ask: "What about Connie?" (the other woman) He says:" I've got it worked out." i ask "really? what did you work out?" him "that between me your mother and connie." I just called my moms house and spoke with her for the sake of this post. she says: "He working late with Connie" as of 10:07 PM EST on monday april 7th 2008... if I maybe so bold... What does a High school shop teacher work on every night to @ least 11 o'clock for the past 27 years with a trade school teacher?

These "little" sins are just scratching the surface. James tells us if we keep the whole law except a small part of it then we are guilty of breaking all of it. I know in my life I haven't broke the same laws as my father but am just like him in sin as far as god is concerned, and just like him deserve death. but unlike him I have found Jesus as lord and savior. and because of that i know i need to forgive him.
But again I ask: is there forgiveness without repentance? is there a biblical example? If god doesn't for give without repentance should I? is there a biblical example of that?

I want to also ask is cutting "Him" off from MY wife and family, and having nothing more to do with him a bad thing? What if I'm not angery what if I just don't want them to be hurt by him? It's been 6 years so far is this to long or should i wait even longer? I feel unless people know for sure there is something wrong they won't change.. I'm doing the only thing I can to effect change, as far as I can see he's shut down every other Avenue. I don't know how else to approach this and not make things even worse.

 

[MrFreshdew]

maybe turn the tide as being the drunk the abuser and the one not seen for 6 years and however else they have been,maybe there you can search 4 an answer of how you wood react or how to have compassion on someone who makes mistakes.
perhaps yer focus is too much on the wrong and not on the right of simply focusing on Jesus and trusting these situations into His hands,knowing full well that He has them under His control and thanking Him 4 it.
it is our walk with Jesus,no one elses,but those that He has in our lives r the ones He has 4 us to realize watt He forgave us of & to turn the cheek & forgive as Jesus has done 4 us.
matthew 6:33
proverbs 3:5,6
isaiah 26:3
matthew 5:16
may Jesus grant you the wisdom the knowlegde and the understanding of His love 4 others that condemn even unto death.

 

[drich0150]

To me thats the whole point of the "Exile" If I hadn't been seen for six years, I'd say what's going on with my son and then try to work something out, Maybe take him up on his offer of family consuling, if it were my drinking then I might not stop. but, maybe try and get some help. go to a meeting, or open a dialog with the family. just something other than "Love me for who I am take it or leave it." Or I couldn't just straight up lie about thing I didn't want to face.

People don't change unless the pain they are facing is greater than the pain of changing. I don't expect an over night recovery, but what i do expect is for the man to make an effort of somekind.