When do the last days end?

[oldrunner]

I haven't read all the responses. Here is my 2 cents worth:

Last days end when the Day of the Lord does, and He comes back and sets up His Kingdom. (Rev. 19-20) All prophecy will be done and when someone says they prophecy, there own parents will kill them in the Mill Kingdom. This shows there will be unsaved people born in the Kingdom-also end of Rev 20.

Zec 13:3　 It will happen that, when anyone still prophesies, then his father and his mother who bore him will tell him, ‘You must die, because you speak lies in Yahweh’s name;’ and his father and his mother who bore him will stab him when he prophesies.　

Zec 13:4　 It will happen in that day, that the prophets will each be ashamed of his vision, when he prophesies; neither will they wear a hairy mantle to deceive:　

Of course a few things remain to be done, but we will be in the Kingdom then and Jesus will be visible and in power on Earth. So no need for prophecy. I believe the eternal Kingdom starts with Jesus' Earthly reign, with only minor tweaks at the end, when all unrighteous dead and hades are judged, and possibly the Heavenly city setting down on Earth- when during the Mill Kingdom, it hovers above.

Now the Kingdom is in all born again Christians. Jesus exercises authority over the Christian that yields to Him, ruling over the heart. During the Mill Kingdom, Jesus will exercise authority over the whole Earth from Zion-visibly, and He shall rule the nations with a rod of iron.

I think this is how things will play out using a normal, plain sense interpretation of the passages.

Luk 17:20　 Being asked by the Pharisees when God’s Kingdom would come, he answered them, "God’s Kingdom doesn’t come with observation;　

Luk 17:21　 neither will they say, ‘Look, here!’ or, ‘Look, there!’ for behold, God’s Kingdom is within you."　

Rev 10:5　 The angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to the sky,　

Rev 10:6　 and swore by him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that are in it, the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea and the things that are in it, that there will no longer be delay,　

Rev 10:7　 but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as he declared to his servants, the prophets.　

Rev 16:17　 The seventh poured out his bowl into the air. A loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done!"　

 

[BABerean2]

This shows there will be unsaved people born in the Kingdom-also end of Rev 20.

Based on Matthew 25:31-46, where do these mortals come from?

Since Christ returns in Revelation 16:15-16 and also in chapter 19, do you think the Book of Revelation is in chronological order?

.

 

[DamianWarS]

Correct, Jesus will come from heaven, the same we he was seen going INTO heaven
Acts 1:11 Men of Galilee,” they said, “Why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go INTO heaven.”

And how did Jesus go INTO heaven? Hidden in a cloud. A cloud took him out of their sight.
Acts 1:9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight.

So how will Jesus come back? The same way he went into heaven, IN a cloud, out of sight.



Jesus' glorified body is flesh? Why would the language of the 'coming of God' in the old testament mean something completely different in the new testament, especially if Jesus is God?

Indeed, glorified flesh

 

[DamianWarS]

I am only using the comet to say that the year 29 ad was the year Jesus went to carvery and then 50 days later was the day of Pentecostal and the beginning of the Christian Church. I do not know for sure if the rapture is going to take place in 2029 but it could. The destruction of Jerusalem / temple was in 70 AD. That would have been 40 years later.

Clearly Jesus was saying that the destruction of the temple in 70 ad is a shadow and a type of what we can expect to see at the end of the church age. There are people that believe the Kingdom age has already begun and the Kingdoms of this world are becoming the kingdoms of God. Somewhere along the way Satan will be thrown into the bottomless pit and sealed there for 1,000 years. We rule and reign with Christ for 1,000 years and then there will be a New Heaven and a New Earth.

So then the destruction of Jerusalem 70 AD was only a shadow... could also the known Roman world be a shadow for the entire world (even the unknown parts)

 

[Davy]

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Peter states he was living the in the last days. It appears the last days started during Peter's generation.

When do these last days end? Before the millenium, during the millenium, or after the millenium?

The last days being spoken of there in Joel 2 is about the very end of this world. Peter was simply quoting from Joel to show Pentecost day was an example of this future Joel 2 event.

Joel 2:29-31
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
KJV

Matt 24:29
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
KJV

Luke 21:11-19
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
KJV

Rev 6:12-14
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
KJV

 

[oldrunner]

Based on Matthew 25:31-46, where do these mortals come from?

Since Christ returns in Revelation 16:15-16 and also in chapter 19, do you think the Book of Revelation is in chronological order?

.

I'm sure you probably just want to fight, but here is what I believe will happen.

I see Mat. 24:27-31 as being the arrival of the Parousia-which Jesus says it is, end of 25:31 being when He takes position of the Kingdom (Rev 19), or the last thing that happens during the Parousia. He actually visits Earth before Rev 19- because He has blood on His robe already. So He is actively engaging and judging the Earth during the Trumpets and Bowl judgements. There are several things that takes place under the umbrella of the Parousia: Arrival, judgement, taking possession of the Earth. All over a period of about 1 year.

The sheep and goats judgement is at the start of the Mill Kingdom, IMO. This will take place about 40 days after the Lord comes back. It seems it will take that long to gather all people left. The great white throne is another judgement after the 1000 year reign. It seems the language fit's more with how people treated Jews and Christians during the Tribulation period to me. Notice: This judgement is based totally on works- and the people don't even know how they were helping them. The great White Throne based on works and if your name is written in the Lambs book of Life. I'm not 100% sure this is not talking about the Great White, I'll give you that. But we know Rev 20 mentions 1000 years six times, and shows a separation- just like 1st Cor 15. So we ought to take note, IMO.

Rev 16 is chronological, it is just before Rev 19 when He destroys the armies gathered in Israel. 17-19 is an interlude. Revelation is basically chronological, but there are interludes that explain things and you have to observe where the action is taking place. They can go back and forth in time.

I believe what is missing after Mat 24 and in between 25 is The Day of The Lords Wrath-that be the Trumpets and Bowels revealed in The Book of Revelation. That is what is revealed that is not in Mat 24. The seals and the 7 churches are what is in Mat 24- if you compare the seals and what Jesus taught what it will be like before He comes. Mat. 25:31 picks up at Rev 19 (and is just mentioned in passing-His coming), then it shows the start of the Kingdom and Him reigning- like the start of Rev 20. Then it talks of a judgement.

Mat. 25:41 says the lake of fire it is "prepared", for the devil and his angels, not they are in it exactly at this time. The Beast and the False Prophet are thrown in right from the start. I see this as a separate judgement, at the start of the Mill Kingdom.

It's pretty clear mortals will be left:

Zec 14:16　 Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths.　

Zec 14:17　 And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them.　

Zec 14:18　 And if the family of Egypt does not go up and present themselves, then on them there shall be no rain; there shall be the plague with which the LORD afflicts the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths.


Isa 66:19　 and I will set a sign among them. And from them I will send survivors to the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, who draw the bow, to Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands far away, that have not heard my fame or seen my glory. And they shall declare my glory among the nations.　

Isa 66:20　 And they shall bring all your brothers from all the nations as an offering to the LORD, on horses and in chariots and in litters and on mules and on dromedaries, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, says the LORD, just as the Israelites bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the LORD.

Isa 66:23　 From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD.

Isa 66:24　 "And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."　
　

 

[BABerean2]

It's pretty clear mortals will be left:

Zec 14:16　 Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths.　

Zec 14:17　 And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them.　

Zec 14:18　 And if the family of Egypt does not go up and present themselves, then on them there shall be no rain; there shall be the plague with which the LORD afflicts the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths.


Isa 66:19　 and I will set a sign among them. And from them I will send survivors to the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, who draw the bow, to Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands far away, that have not heard my fame or seen my glory. And they shall declare my glory among the nations.　

Isa 66:20　 And they shall bring all your brothers from all the nations as an offering to the LORD, on horses and in chariots and in litters and on mules and on dromedaries, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, says the LORD, just as the Israelites bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the LORD.

Isa 66:23　 From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD.

Isa 66:24　 "And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."　
　

"Pretty clear" is not very clear, if taken in context.

Many false doctrines are built upon quoting from the less clear Old Testament scriptures that you quoted above, out of context.

You missed one very important verse in the Book of Isaiah.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

The verses that follow Isaiah 65:17 must be referring to the New Heavens and the New Earth.
How many mortals will be living in the New Heavens and the New Earth, based on the New Testament scriptures?

As for the feasts in the Book of Zechariah, what do we find in Colossians 2:15-17 about the Old Testament feasts? Those feasts were merely a "shadow" of Christ, in the same way that Abraham offering Isaac was a shadow of Calvary.
Christ is the "tabernacle" in the New Testament.
On the road to Emmaus the risen Savior reveals that the Old Testament is about Him.

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

.

 

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

I believe the refiners fire is the same as the indwelling...

What does the fire do but to purify us in order we stand before him on that Day.. In short, its the process of sanctification in the believer...

How do you see it referring to something else?

I do not see it as something else. Just more I suppose.

I see it as having more than one application depending on the time period. Hence if in Noah's day, it was a flood, if in Jesus day, Pentecost, and in the very last days, fire.
Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
Matthew 24:37 As the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
So we as of 2018, have seen how the days of Noah were. We've seen how the first coming of Jesus was. Now the second coming will be inherently different, but yet it will be the same in a spiritual context of the pouring out of aforementioned spirit.
The fire is a purging fire. It refines those who are left and will make them worthy to stand. The others will perish.
Ezekiel 22:17-22
The Refining Furnace
17Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 18“Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to Me. All of them are copper, tin, iron, and lead inside the furnace; they are but the dross of silver.
19Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘Because all of you have become dross, behold, I will gather you into Jerusalem. 20Just as one gathers silver, copper, iron, lead, and tin into the furnace to melt with a fiery blast, so I will gather you in My anger and wrath, leave you there, and melt you.
21Yes, I will gather you together and blow on you with the fire of My wrath, and you will be melted within the city. 22As silver is melted in a furnace, so you will be melted inside the city. Then you will know that I, the LORD, have poured out My wrath upon you.’”

It is plain, of course, that the indwelling spirit does this work in us. But yet it is also clear from John the Baptist in Matthew 3:11 there are three steps that I have been referring to.
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

You see three summarized in one verse, baptism with water (1), the Holy Spirit(2), then fire(3). Just as the world has been with Noah (water), Pentecost (Holy Spirit [Indwelling]), then the second coming (fire).

READ CAREFULLY THE WORDING OF THE INTERACTION BETWEEN NOAH AND THE DOVE.

Genesis 8:6:12
6And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:
7And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.
8Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground; 9But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
10And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark; 11And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
12And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.

the raven is the natural man, the worldly.
the dove is the spiritual man, of the spirit. Taken one step further it is the personification of the holy spirit.
first time sent - dove into the ark 8-9 coincidentally we find the commandments later housed in an ark.
second time sent - into him 10-11 the indwelling spirit
third time sent - returned to him no more 12

 

[Hazelelponi]

I do not see it as something else. Just more I suppose.

I see it as having more than one application depending on the time period. Hence if in Noah's day, it was a flood, if in Jesus day, Pentecost, and in the very last days, fire.
Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
Matthew 24:37 As the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
So we as of 2018, have seen how the days of Noah were. We've seen how the first coming of Jesus was. Now the second coming will be inherently different, but yet it will be the same in a spiritual context of the pouring out of aforementioned spirit.
The fire is a purging fire. It refines those who are left and will make them worthy to stand. The others will perish.
Ezekiel 22:17-22
The Refining Furnace
17Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 18“Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to Me. All of them are copper, tin, iron, and lead inside the furnace; they are but the dross of silver.
19Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘Because all of you have become dross, behold, I will gather you into Jerusalem. 20Just as one gathers silver, copper, iron, lead, and tin into the furnace to melt with a fiery blast, so I will gather you in My anger and wrath, leave you there, and melt you.
21Yes, I will gather you together and blow on you with the fire of My wrath, and you will be melted within the city. 22As silver is melted in a furnace, so you will be melted inside the city. Then you will know that I, the LORD, have poured out My wrath upon you.’”

It is plain, of course, that the indwelling spirit does this work in us. But yet it is also clear from John the Baptist in Matthew 3:11 there are three steps that I have been referring to.
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

You see three summarized in one verse, baptism with water (1), the Holy Spirit(2), then fire(3). Just as the world has been with Noah (water), Pentecost (Holy Spirit [Indwelling]), then the second coming (fire).

READ CAREFULLY THE WORDING OF THE INTERACTION BETWEEN NOAH AND THE DOVE.

Genesis 8:6:12
6And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:
7And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.
8Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground; 9But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
10And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark; 11And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
12And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.

the raven is the natural man, the worldly.
the dove is the spiritual man, of the spirit. Taken one step further it is the personification of the holy spirit.
first time sent - dove into the ark 8-9 coincidentally we find the commandments later housed in an ark.
second time sent - into him 10-11 the indwelling spirit
third time sent - returned to him no more 12

This gives me a lot to consider as there is truth in what you say.

Thank you. .

 

[oldrunner]

"Pretty clear" is not very clear, if taken in context.

Many false doctrines are built upon quoting from the less clear Old Testament scriptures that you quoted above, out of context.

You missed one very important verse in the Book of Isaiah.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

The verses that follow Isaiah 65:17 must be referring to the New Heavens and the New Earth.
How many mortals will be living in the New Heavens and the New Earth, based on the New Testament scriptures?

As for the feasts in the Book of Zechariah, what do we find in Colossians 2:15-17 about the Old Testament feasts? Those feasts were merely a "shadow" of Christ, in the same way that Abraham offering Isaac was a shadow of Calvary.
Christ is the "tabernacle" in the New Testament.
On the road to Emmaus the risen Savior reveals that the Old Testament is about Him.

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

.

Yeah, I believe the NHNE starts at the Mill Kingdom and continues into the eternal state. Here is the best example. The context is NHNE, but people are sinning, growing old, and dying. And notice this is the Earthly Jerusalem, because in the Heavenly; there will be no death or sin, people won't grow old, and they can eat of the tree of life- and never grow old or die.

So all the nations and people that are left after the Day of The Lord-that you said I'm taking out of context; people that are mortal, grow old, and die, and a lot of sinners will be born during the 1000 years, according to Rev 20. It seems you are twisting the Scriptures to fit your viewpoint, not me.

And Christ- and us, have to have mortal people to reign over. Right? That is what the 1000 years are about. We will all be brethren and there will be no enemies, or death, or sin, in the eternal state. Right? There will be supreme peace and harmony.

1Co 15:24　 Then the end comes, when he will deliver up the Kingdom to God, even the Father; when he will have abolished all rule and all authority and power. (second death/resurrection= the end with 1000 year separation)　

1Co 15:25　 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.　

1Co 15:26　 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. (end of 1000 years)


We can go round and round about this, but I will never be a Preterist or Amill in my viewpoint. I don't see Scriptures that way, and believe it is a false teaching that leaves out large portions of OT Scriptures yet to be fulfilled-when we take the plain sense reading thereof. God will answer all our questions and show who is right or wrong when He returns-then it won't matter. This is what I believe is the correct teaching, just my 2 cents worth.

Rev 20:9　 They went up over the width of the earth, and surrounded the camp of the saints, and the beloved city. Fire came down out of heaven from God and devoured them.　
Isa 65:17　 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be remembered, nor come into mind.　

Isa 65:18　 But be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create; for, behold, I create Jerusalem to be a delight, and her people a joy.　

Isa 65:19　 I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and delight in my people; and the voice of weeping and the voice of crying will be heard in her no more.　

Isa 65:20　 "No more will there be an infant who only lives a few days, nor an old man who has not filled his days; for the child will die one hundred years old, and the sinner being one hundred years old will be accursed.　


Rev 21:3　 I heard a loud voice out of heaven saying, "Behold, God’s dwelling is with people, and he will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.　

Rev 21:4　 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more. The first things have passed away."　


Rev 21:26　 and they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it so that they may enter.　


Rev 21:27　 There will in no way enter into it anything profane, or one who causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

So, 1000 year reign-just like the Scriptures teach, that fulfill all the OT prophecies for national Israel and the nations who are left- after the DOTL, then the eternal state. 　

 

[Hazelelponi]

I do not see it as something else. Just more I suppose.

I see it as having more than one application depending on the time period. Hence if in Noah's day, it was a flood, if in Jesus day, Pentecost, and in the very last days, fire.
Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
Matthew 24:37 As the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
So we as of 2018, have seen how the days of Noah were. We've seen how the first coming of Jesus was. Now the second coming will be inherently different, but yet it will be the same in a spiritual context of the pouring out of aforementioned spirit.
The fire is a purging fire. It refines those who are left and will make them worthy to stand. The others will perish.
Ezekiel 22:17-22
The Refining Furnace
17Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 18“Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to Me. All of them are copper, tin, iron, and lead inside the furnace; they are but the dross of silver.
19Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘Because all of you have become dross, behold, I will gather you into Jerusalem. 20Just as one gathers silver, copper, iron, lead, and tin into the furnace to melt with a fiery blast, so I will gather you in My anger and wrath, leave you there, and melt you.
21Yes, I will gather you together and blow on you with the fire of My wrath, and you will be melted within the city. 22As silver is melted in a furnace, so you will be melted inside the city. Then you will know that I, the LORD, have poured out My wrath upon you.’”

It is plain, of course, that the indwelling spirit does this work in us. But yet it is also clear from John the Baptist in Matthew 3:11 there are three steps that I have been referring to.
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

You see three summarized in one verse, baptism with water (1), the Holy Spirit(2), then fire(3). Just as the world has been with Noah (water), Pentecost (Holy Spirit [Indwelling]), then the second coming (fire).

READ CAREFULLY THE WORDING OF THE INTERACTION BETWEEN NOAH AND THE DOVE.

Genesis 8:6:12
6And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:
7And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.
8Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground; 9But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
10And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark; 11And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
12And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.

the raven is the natural man, the worldly.
the dove is the spiritual man, of the spirit. Taken one step further it is the personification of the holy spirit.
first time sent - dove into the ark 8-9 coincidentally we find the commandments later housed in an ark.
second time sent - into him 10-11 the indwelling spirit
third time sent - returned to him no more 12

I really do want to thank you for taking the time. This puts more than one point in place for me..it's like puzzle pieces finding the correct place. I actually needed this teaching and I really wanted you to know..I thank you..

 

[BABerean2]

Yeah, I believe the NHNE starts at the Mill Kingdom and continues into the eternal state. Here is the best example. The context is NHNE, but people are sinning, growing old, and dying. And notice this is the Earthly Jerusalem, because in the Heavenly; there will be no death or sin, people won't grow old, and they can eat of the tree of life- and never grow old or die.

How can you believe that sin, and growing old, and dying will be a part of life in the New Heavens and New Earth described in the New Testament.
Can you show even one New Testament passage which agrees with your interpretation?

You are getting all of this mainly from one verse out of the Book of Isaiah.
It is one of the most difficult verses in the Bible, because the Hebrew uses a negative to describe life in the New Heavens and the New Earth.

Look at the context of the whole passage.
The end of the passage reveals that the curse is gone.

Isa 65:17 "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.

Isa 65:18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing, And her people a joy.
Isa 65:19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem, And joy in My people; The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her, Nor the voice of crying. (How can you have death and no weeping?)

Isa 65:20 "No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.

If we put the emphasis on the first three words in the verse above, it reveals that none of the things that follow will occur in the New Heavens and the New Earth. This is the only interpretation that agrees with the rest of the passage.

Isa 65:21 They shall build houses and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
Isa 65:22 They shall not build and another inhabit; They shall not plant and another eat; For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Isa 65:23 They shall not labor in vain, Nor bring forth children for trouble; For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD, And their offspring with them.
Isa 65:24 "It shall come to pass That before they call, I will answer; And while they are still speaking, I will hear.
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, The lion shall eat straw like the ox, And dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain," Says the LORD.

Ripping one verse out of its context in order to make a doctrine work, is one of the greatest errors of Bible interpretation.

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[claninja]

What about this then? Have these things already been fulfilled? It sure looks like Israel is being attacked here as well, except the LORD ends up fighting on their behalf.

How did God allow Israel to be attacked and destroyed and yet fight for them at the same time? Because:
Romans 9:6 for not all who [are] of Israel are these Israel;

Interesting to note, God creates a way for some to flee:
Zechariah 14:5 And ye have fled [to] the valley of My mountains, For join doth the valley of the mountains to Azal, And ye have fled as ye fled before the shaking, In the days of Uzziah king of Judah, And come in hath Jehovah my God, All holy ones [are] with Thee.
Just as Jesus tells those to flee when they see Jerusalem surrounded by armies:
Luke 21:20 then those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains; and those in her midst, let them depart out; and those in the countries, let them not come in to her;

The destruction of Israel is the "day's of vengeance" to fulfill ALL that is written, thus that would include Ezekiel 38/39 and Zechariah 10-12.
Luke 21:22 because these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all things that have been written.

something He absolutely did not do when the Romans came against Israel in the first century

I disagree, I believe God did war against those who persecuted true Israel. I believe it was by God's hand that Nero died and I believe it was by God's hand that "those who are not Israel", that persecuted true Israel (galatians 4:29-31), were destroyed.

It also looks like He fights on behalf of Israel in Ezekiel 39 as well. Maybe just a coincidence?

I can definitely agree with that

All that aside, If the battle of Gog and Magog from Ezekiel 38/39 takes place in the last days, how can the last days be before the millennium, as the Gog and Magog battle of revelation takes place after the millennium?

 

[claninja]

Indeed, glorified flesh

Not sure what that means.

 

[claninja]

Peter was simply quoting from Joel to show Pentecost day was an example of this future Joel 2 event.

Peter states this (people speaking in tongues) is that (last days of according to Joel). He does not say this is 'like' that.

Acts 2:16-17 ‘But this is that which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel:
And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;

 

[parousia70]

Yes, but would anyone consider them to be mere children at that age?

To the Christian who has eternal life, 100 years is barely a blip on the screen... in fact you could very well call that first 100 years of the Christian's "eternal life", it's INFANCY.

 

[parousia70]

Indeed, glorified flesh

So when Jesus said:
"For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them.” Matthew 18:20

He is there with them in His Glorified Flesh?

Or perhaps His glorified Flesh is being stored dormant, spiritless, in heaven, and His spirit departs from it and travels around to be in the midst of His gathering believers?

Remember, Jesus was not referencing the Holy Spirit in Matt 18:20, rather He was referencing His own Personhood. "There I AM"

 

[Davy]

Peter states this (people speaking in tongues) is that (last days of according to Joel). He does not say this is 'like' that.

Acts 2:16-17 ‘But this is that which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel:
And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;

You contradict your own self.

That underlined part is NOT Peter's words, it his quoting Joel 2. A look back at the end of Joel 2 reveals what Joel meant by last days, i.e., the tribulation timing. The whole Joel 2 chapter is about the tribulation at the end of this world, which is what that locust army's attack upon God's people for the end is about.

 

[claninja]

You contradict your own self.

Stating Peter quotes Joel to say this (people speaking in tongues) is that (prophecy from Joel) is contradicting my self? Well then you must believe Peter was contradicting his own self as well.

If I am contradicting myself, maybe you could answer these 2 questions?
What is the "this" of Acts 2:16 referring too?
What is the "that" of acts 2:16 referring too?
Acts 2:16 ‘But this is that which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel:

That underlined part is NOT Peter's words, it his quoting Joel 2.

Correct

A look back at the end of Joel 2 reveals what Joel meant by last days, i.e., the tribulation timing.

The whole Joel 2 chapter is about the tribulation at the end of this world, which is what that locust army's attack upon God's people for the end is about.

I disagree that the whole passage is about the great tribulation at end of the world. Because the holy spirit is poured out before the great tribulation, of which Peter equates to occurring in his day. This day (not the last day, but one of the last days) was known as Pentacost

Acts 2:16-17 ‘But this is that which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel:
Acts 2:20 BEFORE the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So then the destruction of Jerusalem 70 AD was only a shadow... could also the known Roman world be a shadow for the entire world (even the unknown parts)

It was so aweful and completely fulfilled the prophesy of Jesus that it was the real deal. He said that that generation would not pass away until his words were fulfilled. Revelation says repeatedly soon. It was soon, within a few years. One can read the details and they fit.

The good news is bad times are not coming. No Antichrist will take over the world. No plagues are coming. The bad news is the rapture industy will lose a lot of money if they gets out. Or maybe that is not bad news.