• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

When did the early fathers begin to go askew?

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,946
11,096
okie
✟222,536.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Ecclesia , the people SAVED already, born again, set apart by YHWH, gathered to talk about YHWH and Y'SHUA (forbidden today in the place you speak of) ....

NOT a business organization, NOT of man's doing,
NOT opposed to Scripture and persecuting and oppressing others.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,946
11,096
okie
✟222,536.00
Faith
Anabaptist
From that time and throughout church history (not just with the early church fathers) there has been a constant battle with false doctrine

Just like today, there is a constant battle with error over truth, ....

examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so'.

I know that until Jesus comes again, we will have to continue to watch for false teachers and false prophets (see 1 John 4:1-3) and discern the truth from error.
Yes, test everything.
There is little truth today.
YHWH'S WORD remains unchanged, always TRUE.
 
Upvote 0

Thursday

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2016
6,034
1,562
60
Texas
✟56,929.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Ecclesia , the people SAVED already, born again, set apart by YHWH, gathered to talk about YHWH and Y'SHUA (forbidden today in the place you speak of) ....

NOT a business organization, NOT of man's doing,
NOT opposed to Scripture and persecuting and oppressing others.


Jesus started a Church and gave it human leaders with his authority to teach and forgive sins.

Do you think his Church failed?
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,946
11,096
okie
✟222,536.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Jesus started a Church and gave it human leaders with his authority to teach and forgive sins.

Do you think his Church failed?
The counterfeit is much bigger than that which is true.
This has always been,
except 2 times in history.
 
Upvote 0

Thursday

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2016
6,034
1,562
60
Texas
✟56,929.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
The counterfeit is much bigger than that which is true.
This has always been,
except 2 times in history.

That doesn't have anything to do with my question.

Jesus started a Church and gave it human leaders with his authority to teach and forgive sins.

Do you think his Church failed?
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,946
11,096
okie
✟222,536.00
Faith
Anabaptist
That doesn't have anything to do with my question.
It answers your question perfectly,
as much as allowed.
If you want a more complete answer,
read "50 Years in the Church" by Chiniquoy.
or
find out about the counterfeit some other way,
if YHWH permits.
 
Upvote 0

Thursday

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2016
6,034
1,562
60
Texas
✟56,929.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
It answers your question perfectly,
as much as allowed.
If you want a more complete answer,
read "50 Years in the Church" by Chiniquoy.
or
find out about the counterfeit some other way,
if YHWH permits.


So you believe that the gates of Hell prevailed against the Church Jesus started and promised to be with until the end of the world. Interesting view.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,946
11,096
okie
✟222,536.00
Faith
Anabaptist
That's your view, mistaken entirely, of what the church is.
Ecclesia NEVER was prevailed against.

Anyone in what you call church, anyone anywhere in fact , who is or becomes ecclesia (set apart by YHWH for HIMSELF) ,
likewise overcomes the enemy - by the word of their testimony and the blood of the lamb who was slain.

All the efforts to make a manmade counterfeit into YHWH's people have failed.

So you believe that the gates of Hell prevailed against the Church Jesus started and promised to be with until the end of the world. Interesting view.
 
Upvote 0

Thursday

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2016
6,034
1,562
60
Texas
✟56,929.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
That's your view, mistaken entirely, of what the church is.
Ecclesia NEVER was prevailed against.

Anyone in what you call church, anyone anywhere in fact , who is or becomes ecclesia (set apart by YHWH for HIMSELF) ,
likewise overcomes the enemy - by the word of their testimony and the blood of the lamb who was slain.

All the efforts to make a manmade counterfeit into YHWH's people have failed.

Where do we find out what the Church teaches so we can listen to it like Jesus commanded?
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,946
11,096
okie
✟222,536.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Where do we find out what the Church teaches so we can listen to it like Jesus commanded?
The ONLY PLACE you can find out, IF YHWH PERMITS,
is by reading HIS WORD.

I don't know of anywhere else you could go, or read, or learn what YHWH SAYS.
(ASK YHWH HIMSELF, directly).

I do know that most everyone on earth is deceived. (as YHWH says in HIS WORD).

ONLY YHWH'S WORD can be TRUSTED and be the STANDARD.
NOT,
absolutely NOT,
what men(ANY man) have told you
that directly contradicts HIS WORD.

i.e. you must read it yourself,
and also
this is necessary, totally , >> "Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,"
and is only as YHWH permits.
i.e. "FEW find the narrow road to life" - never "MANY" --
because
"MANY are on the wide road to destruction"
as Y'SHUA SAYS.

Again, seek Y'SHUA MESSIAH. NOT MEN nor man's ways.
 
Upvote 0

ScottA

Author: Walking Like Einstein
Site Supporter
Feb 24, 2011
4,309
657
✟78,847.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Can you provide an example? Why post irrelevant verses?
Irrelevant verses? "Quickly" is in each verse.

By not taking "quickly" to heart, the apostles (and early fathers) reverted back to "waiting upon the Lord." Which was not for their time or our time of waiting for Him to come in His glory, but for the time that Israel would wait for His coming in the flesh. So, just as Israel did not know Him when He came, neither did the early fathers know Him when He came [again] "quickly" (just as He said).
 
Upvote 0

Thursday

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2016
6,034
1,562
60
Texas
✟56,929.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Irrelevant verses? "Quickly" is in each verse.

By not taking "quickly" to heart, the apostles (and early fathers) reverted back to "waiting upon the Lord." Which was not for their time or our time of waiting for Him to come in His glory, but for the time that Israel would wait for His coming in the flesh. So, just as Israel did not know Him when He came, neither did the early fathers know Him when He came [again] "quickly" (just as He said).


The early Fathers lived and died for Christ. What are you talking about?
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,946
11,096
okie
✟222,536.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Not nearly all.
Test everything before believing it.
Be sure SCRIPTURE says so (concerning EACH WORD) -
as many a man has claimed this,
and yet been totally opposed by YHWH.
(like the scribes and pharisees who opposed Y'SHUA)

The early Fathers lived and died for Christ. What are you talking about?
 
Upvote 0

Thursday

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2016
6,034
1,562
60
Texas
✟56,929.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Not nearly all.
Test everything before believing it.
Be sure SCRIPTURE says so (concerning EACH WORD) -
as many a man has claimed this,
and yet been totally opposed by YHWH.
(like the scribes and pharisees who opposed Y'SHUA)


Again, you totally ignore my post and post rambling irrelevancies.
 
Upvote 0

ScottA

Author: Walking Like Einstein
Site Supporter
Feb 24, 2011
4,309
657
✟78,847.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The early Fathers lived and died for Christ. What are you talking about?
Yes...you are not getting the point.

Christ came in the flesh, and then left them in charge, saying He would return soon ("quickly"). But they did not take it to heart, and went back to the way things were - living for Christ...but not hearing what He said. In other words, they went back to expecting Him to come again in the flesh as if He had not already done so - completely misunderstanding that His return would not be in the flesh, but would be in the full glory of the Father (i.e., in spirit). And as a result, instead of leading people to that glorious end, they lead them astray...just as the fathers of Israel had done: “Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered.Luke 11:52
 
Upvote 0

Thursday

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2016
6,034
1,562
60
Texas
✟56,929.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Yes...you are not getting the point.

Christ came in the flesh, and then left them in charge, saying He would return soon ("quickly"). But they did not take it to heart, and went back to the way things were - living for Christ...but not hearing what He said. In other words, they went back to expecting Him to come again in the flesh as if He had not already done so - completely misunderstanding that His return would not be in the flesh, but would be in the full glory of the Father (i.e., in spirit). And as a result, instead of leading people to that glorious end, they lead them astray...just as the fathers of Israel had done: “Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered.Luke 11:52

There is zero evidence for that. The early Fathers taught the gospel as it was given to them from Christ.

Pope Clement, writing in about 80 AD:

Chapter 42. The Order of Ministers in the Church.
The apostles have preached the gospel to us from the Lord Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ [has done so] from God.Christ therefore was sent forth by God, and the apostles by Christ. Both these appointments, then, were made in an orderly way, according to the will of God. Having therefore received their orders, and being fully assured by the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and established in the word of God, with full assurance of the Holy Ghost, they went forth proclaiming that the kingdom of God was at hand. And thus preaching through countries and cities, they appointed the first fruits [of their labours], having first proved them by the Spirit, to be bishopsand deacons of those who should afterwards believe. Nor was this any new thing, since indeed many ages before it was written concerning bishops and deacons. For thus says the Scripture in a certain place, I will appoint their bishops in righteousness, and their deacons in faith.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,946
11,096
okie
✟222,536.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Basically, as YHWH says,
anyone who trusts in the felsh (sic)/ man/ mankind/
HE HIMSELF curses.
Doesn't matter who they are,
as even the Apostles proclaimed clearly - TEST EVERYTHING
and do not accept anything
that is contrary to YHWH'S WORD once for all delivered.

Again, you totally ignore my post and post rambling irrelevancies.
 
Upvote 0

ScottA

Author: Walking Like Einstein
Site Supporter
Feb 24, 2011
4,309
657
✟78,847.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There is zero evidence for that. The early Fathers taught the gospel as it was given to them from Christ.

Pope Clement, writing in about 80 AD:

Chapter 42. The Order of Ministers in the Church.
The apostles have preached the gospel to us from the Lord Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ [has done so] from God.Christ therefore was sent forth by God, and the apostles by Christ. Both these appointments, then, were made in an orderly way, according to the will of God. Having therefore received their orders, and being fully assured by the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and established in the word of God, with full assurance of the Holy Ghost, they went forth proclaiming that the kingdom of God was at hand. And thus preaching through countries and cities, they appointed the first fruits [of their labours], having first proved them by the Spirit, to be bishopsand deacons of those who should afterwards believe. Nor was this any new thing, since indeed many ages before it was written concerning bishops and deacons. For thus says the Scripture in a certain place, I will appoint their bishops in righteousness, and their deacons in faith.
The evidence...is the fact that during their times they only preached the gospel...but did not act upon the messages given to the churches for His return. They were given two tasks, but only received one and not the other.
 
Upvote 0

GoldenKingGaze

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.
Mar 12, 2007
4,518
550
Visit site
✟303,433.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
Politics
AU-Labor
The early fathers did good work at explaining and defending the faith so to reveal from their training, the Holy Spirit given them and from the scriptures, the nature of the Trinity that we need. Were it not for them and Athanasius we could have lost who Jesus is and worship a myth and with myths there is no salvation.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Thursday
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,946
11,096
okie
✟222,536.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Sorry, but this is a myth.
It is actually history re-written from what really happened.
Remember 'they' had control over most of what is and was written,
humongous volumes of ,
whole libraries full,
all meant to 'support' (as if possible)
their own practices and doctrines.

Were it not for them and Athanasius we could have lost who Jesus is and worship a myth and with myths there is no salvation.
 
Upvote 0