When did Satan fall?
- Thread starter Dr Graham
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Diamond7
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God's justice is as precise as the universe. Most Christian's believe that what they call evolution is just the universe fine tuning itself. You have to have one before the other. You have to have plants to create oxygen for animals. That to me is evolution. Where I agree with you is I do not believe in mutations. There is fame shifting and that is all planed out from the beginning. It is crazy to say the universe is a product of mistakes and errors. Nothing has been added, God proclaims the end from the beginning and He watches over His word to see that His plan and purpose is fulfilled. It is a crazy mixed up world but God has it all under control and He is going to get everything back on track again. All things work together for good.
Science has a lot of trouble when they see how exact and precise the universe is and how exact all has to be for us to exist. We see this in the butterfly effect. How something so tiny can have a huge amount of impact.
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I agree, science is just man's attempt to understand God's creation. God is totally in control, and we can totally trust Him without lives, if we love Jesus.
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Diamond7
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We can but it is not always easy to trust God. Jesus never explained when the poor women threw her last pennies into the offering. She was totally depending on God to provide for her needs.
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Every time I trust God, He comes through. Not always the way I expect but He knows what is best for me. 'For me to live is Christ and to die is gain' , what ever happens I know He is in control.
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
Dr. Graham,
The Bible says that Hell was prepared for the Devil and his angels Matthew 25:41.
Matthew 5:29-30, 2 Peter 2Peter 2:4, Revelation 20:1 and Luke 16:22-31 show that there is a hell connected with the earth and underneath it.
Isaiah 14:12-14
Because of Lucifer and the fallen angels connection with earth there was the Great Confrontation between God and Satan. Also, God wanted a family as well that would serve him in perfect love as seen first in Adam and Eve and Noah and Abraham through whom all the families of the earth would and are and will be forever blessed Genesis 12:1-3.
This recreation in Genesis 1 was for mankind to be progenitors of creation. As freewill human creatures we have to be tested and since Adam sinned their had to be redemption for man Genesis 3:15 prophesied to be in the Cross at Calvary through types and shadows till Jesus actually died on the Cross in the gospels after the Jewish nation rejected Jesus as their Savior Matthew 23:37-39. Since the land is groaning Romans 8:22 all of creation mans and the physical worlds need redemption from the curse.
This will be complete in the New Heaven and the New Earth Revelation 21 and 22.
1 Corinthians 15:24-28 Paul reveals sin and death being destroyed and when God will be all in all.
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Hi Jerry, I agree with all you say. There remains a future rest for man (Heb 4:9), I believe this is the future millennium period. I believe in a literal 6 days of creation and talking about creation ' with the Lord a day is like a thousand years' (2 Peter 3:9) thus I believe the creation age is 6,000 years. 4,000 before Christ was born ( He was born 4 BC just before Herod died and if you add the genealogies in the Bible Abraham was born 2,008 year after creation which was 1996 BC , giving 4,004 years) and 2,000 years after Pentecost ( probably 29 AD). Thus Christ may return 2029 -2030. The first event we will have is the man of lawlessness making a 7 year deal with Israel and breaking it half way through (Dan 9:27) and him setting himself up in God's sanctuary' proclaiming himself to be God ' (2 Thess 2:4). The Temple does not need to be re built , just somewhere north of the ' dome of the rock' set up for sacrifice and stopped sometime later. Then the worst part of the tribulation starts (1260 days, 42 months ). I do not believe the mature Christians will be on the earth at this point ' For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath' ( 1 Thess 5:9) . I believe the rapture will be before this time and we as the body of Christ will defeat the devil finally and return with Christ to rule with Him over the millennium. Any thoughts
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Diamond7
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The Bible talks about the third day and God talks a LOT about the sabbath and the 1,000 year reign of Christ. I agree with you about the year 29AD because of the NASA asteroid that comes around every 7 years on the beginning of Passover. Way to much of a coincidence to be a random event.
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Stephen Andrew
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Peace to all,
To me the parable of the thief in the night is the classic, timeless story and perhaps the greatest story ever told through Christ that explains "in logic" the New "Empire".
To me Satan fell when he was told of God's plan to make flesh and mankind to be greater in the angels, with only spirits and souls in Heaven and have the angels serve mankind that have spirits and souls in bodies. To me, the angels were asked to help mankind in the Salvific process designed by God. This is just my logic I see in the Holy Spirit will of God.
To me, Death, Satan is destroyed by flesh when Christ, with the Power of The Holy Spirit in His soul of His being in the immortal and incorruptible flesh, descended from the Cross with Dismas when He said, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise." The day was on a Saturday and He emptied the Bosom of Abraham, and with the angels and the saints and martyrs and Old Covenant Saved from the Arc of the Old Covenant, like a thief in the night, Jesus broke down the gates of Hell and with flesh He bound the strong man, Satan in his own home forever and tore down his walls and destroyed death forever resurrecting life of the Body of Christ as united to lift all mankind with the angels and saints and Old Covenant saved and opened eternal life of the flesh glorified and transfigured in the image of The Creator, God, The Father in Heaven forever.
To me, this is my logic of how it could have happened and please advise if I have misunderstood the word with respect to the teachings of the Creator.
"From the rain comes a river
Running wild that will create
An empire for you
Illuminate there is a river
Running wild that will create
An empire for you." OMAM
Peace always,
Stephen
To me the parable of the thief in the night is the classic, timeless story and perhaps the greatest story ever told through Christ that explains "in logic" the New "Empire".
To me Satan fell when he was told of God's plan to make flesh and mankind to be greater in the angels, with only spirits and souls in Heaven and have the angels serve mankind that have spirits and souls in bodies. To me, the angels were asked to help mankind in the Salvific process designed by God. This is just my logic I see in the Holy Spirit will of God.
To me, Death, Satan is destroyed by flesh when Christ, with the Power of The Holy Spirit in His soul of His being in the immortal and incorruptible flesh, descended from the Cross with Dismas when He said, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise." The day was on a Saturday and He emptied the Bosom of Abraham, and with the angels and the saints and martyrs and Old Covenant Saved from the Arc of the Old Covenant, like a thief in the night, Jesus broke down the gates of Hell and with flesh He bound the strong man, Satan in his own home forever and tore down his walls and destroyed death forever resurrecting life of the Body of Christ as united to lift all mankind with the angels and saints and Old Covenant saved and opened eternal life of the flesh glorified and transfigured in the image of The Creator, God, The Father in Heaven forever.
To me, this is my logic of how it could have happened and please advise if I have misunderstood the word with respect to the teachings of the Creator.
"From the rain comes a river
Running wild that will create
An empire for you
Illuminate there is a river
Running wild that will create
An empire for you." OMAM
Peace always,
Stephen
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Hi Stephen, I agree satan is just a created being, a fallen angel, whose power was defeated at the cross. Because of the completed work of Jesus we have been saved from the penalty of sin. If we have accepted Jesus as our personal Lord and Saviour then we are born again and have everything in our spirit we will ever need, but it is only in seed form. Paul writes we are to " continue to work out our salvation with fear and trembling" (Philip 2:13b), this is to co operate with the Holy Spirit for the salvation of our soul. This is the life long journey for the sanctification of your soul. As we allow the ' zoe' life of God the flow through us , making us more like Jesus everyday, then we will finally be saved from the power of sin. Eventually when we receive our glorified bodies we will be saved from the presence of sin. Satan is a looser but he has not given up and want as many people as possible to miss out on what Jesus has won for each one of us. The question I was originally addressing was when Lucifer was banished to the earth. The Hebrew text reads " in the begining God created the heaven and the earth, the earth became formless" not 'but the earth was formless' as most bibles quote. If God banished Lucifer, because of his pride, to the earth and then God spent 6 days perfecting the same planet for mankind, we have more of a purpose than just to worship God. As we worship God we develop all the gifts of the Spirit we need to individually and corporately defeat the power of satan in our lives. Satan still tries to tempt us today and remind us of our past but if we put on the Full Armour of God on all occasions he has no authority over us. Yours in Christ, Graham
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Stephen Andrew
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Peace to all,
Thanks Doctor Graham, and to me the Power is in the unfailing will of God, the some religions refer to as "sanctified" spirit or "Holy Spirit" in the Body of the Baptized being becoming into the Church, The Body of God. We are transfigured into becoming into the Christ by contact, by any of His senses, some by breath alone like the Pentecost in the upper room. He breathed on them the "Spirit". Peter was there and by contact of breath, received in the Apostles is the Holy Spirit will of the Father. What is required for salvation to me is the being of the 'Divine Spirit' becoming in the soul of the Body, the will of the Father that will never fail. We know Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant. Created was the Bosom of Abraham, for the souls only and not yet the flesh, the Body. What was saved in the Old Covenant is the Soul of the being. The Word became Flesh to restore eternal fulfilled love in all faith and morality in the Arc of the New Covenant, through the Body of Mary in The Christ, Jesus to transfigure the Body into the image of the Creator, God, The Father. Glorified is the Body of Christ at the Pentecost of Christ at the Jordan river by John, His cousin when The Father said, "Behold, this my Son in whom I am well pleased". Pleasing to God is the son or daughter in the "sanctified" state of grace received at Baptism for the acceptance into heaven as sinless, spotless in the spirit will of the Father in the soul of the being. The Abrahamic Faiths belief in a spirit power by the promise of God sworn by His own name eternal life to the faithful, descendants would live forever and He fulfilled eternal life through His Son, Jesus 2000 years later in the Body of The Christ to all mankind, Jewish and Gentiles, Muslims and Jews and Christians, all mankind. We are all brothers and sisters in the Body of the Immortal and incorruptible and glorified and transfigured being through the Holy Spirit, united as one in being together with the Father and the Son, glorified in His image manifested by the will of the The Creator, God, The Father. Some of the religions see the spirit as a power or a force and we know Christianity sees the Power as a being, a person in the Divine Being, some religions call the "Holy Spirit." To me, and through the logic of the Power of the Holy Spirit, salvation is for the created beings from mortal and corrupt Adam and Eve receiving the living spirit, as some religions say "sanctified" into becoming the Baptized as immortal and incorruptible from the Body of Mary in The Christ of our being. Then becoming by the regenerated and confirmed will of the Father in the soul of the being through the Communion of the Faith we become transfigured becoming the image of the Creator, God, The Father. Paul defines the soul as having a spirit that manifests the being in the body with respect to the will of the spirit image. Christ promises a more abundant life on earth through the Holy Spirit will and through the immortality and incorruptibility of the being in the Will of The Father at Baptism, the Body is regenerated and confirmed through the Confirmation of the regenerated spirit through the Communion in the faith to manifest the transfiguration of the Body of Our own Christ into the image of The Creator, God, The Father as manifested transfigured. The be-comings through the Christ to me are the mysteries of the Faith of the being. To me, pondering the 7 gifts of the faith are what make the being more charged as being the disciple we all are called to become, from the cross when he said to His Mother, "Behold your son or daughter." We here logically become immortal and incorruptible in the Body of The Christ. At the cross, logically we all were there, before we were ever born, he said to the unknown disciple, the disciple he loves the most is all of His disciples for His love can only be the most love in all mankind. He called US by name, "Disciple," "Ecce mater tua," Behold your mother.
“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began."
We know we help glorify our brothers and sisters so we may help them as Disciples of Christ help US, all mankind, in union as one in being.
To me, logic has a better view to help in understanding the Divine will of The Creator.
Peace always,
Stephen
Thanks Doctor Graham, and to me the Power is in the unfailing will of God, the some religions refer to as "sanctified" spirit or "Holy Spirit" in the Body of the Baptized being becoming into the Church, The Body of God. We are transfigured into becoming into the Christ by contact, by any of His senses, some by breath alone like the Pentecost in the upper room. He breathed on them the "Spirit". Peter was there and by contact of breath, received in the Apostles is the Holy Spirit will of the Father. What is required for salvation to me is the being of the 'Divine Spirit' becoming in the soul of the Body, the will of the Father that will never fail. We know Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant. Created was the Bosom of Abraham, for the souls only and not yet the flesh, the Body. What was saved in the Old Covenant is the Soul of the being. The Word became Flesh to restore eternal fulfilled love in all faith and morality in the Arc of the New Covenant, through the Body of Mary in The Christ, Jesus to transfigure the Body into the image of the Creator, God, The Father. Glorified is the Body of Christ at the Pentecost of Christ at the Jordan river by John, His cousin when The Father said, "Behold, this my Son in whom I am well pleased". Pleasing to God is the son or daughter in the "sanctified" state of grace received at Baptism for the acceptance into heaven as sinless, spotless in the spirit will of the Father in the soul of the being. The Abrahamic Faiths belief in a spirit power by the promise of God sworn by His own name eternal life to the faithful, descendants would live forever and He fulfilled eternal life through His Son, Jesus 2000 years later in the Body of The Christ to all mankind, Jewish and Gentiles, Muslims and Jews and Christians, all mankind. We are all brothers and sisters in the Body of the Immortal and incorruptible and glorified and transfigured being through the Holy Spirit, united as one in being together with the Father and the Son, glorified in His image manifested by the will of the The Creator, God, The Father. Some of the religions see the spirit as a power or a force and we know Christianity sees the Power as a being, a person in the Divine Being, some religions call the "Holy Spirit." To me, and through the logic of the Power of the Holy Spirit, salvation is for the created beings from mortal and corrupt Adam and Eve receiving the living spirit, as some religions say "sanctified" into becoming the Baptized as immortal and incorruptible from the Body of Mary in The Christ of our being. Then becoming by the regenerated and confirmed will of the Father in the soul of the being through the Communion of the Faith we become transfigured becoming the image of the Creator, God, The Father. Paul defines the soul as having a spirit that manifests the being in the body with respect to the will of the spirit image. Christ promises a more abundant life on earth through the Holy Spirit will and through the immortality and incorruptibility of the being in the Will of The Father at Baptism, the Body is regenerated and confirmed through the Confirmation of the regenerated spirit through the Communion in the faith to manifest the transfiguration of the Body of Our own Christ into the image of The Creator, God, The Father as manifested transfigured. The be-comings through the Christ to me are the mysteries of the Faith of the being. To me, pondering the 7 gifts of the faith are what make the being more charged as being the disciple we all are called to become, from the cross when he said to His Mother, "Behold your son or daughter." We here logically become immortal and incorruptible in the Body of The Christ. At the cross, logically we all were there, before we were ever born, he said to the unknown disciple, the disciple he loves the most is all of His disciples for His love can only be the most love in all mankind. He called US by name, "Disciple," "Ecce mater tua," Behold your mother.
“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began."
We know we help glorify our brothers and sisters so we may help them as Disciples of Christ help US, all mankind, in union as one in being.
To me, logic has a better view to help in understanding the Divine will of The Creator.
Peace always,
Stephen
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Hi Stephen, I believe what Jesus completed on the cross was sufficient for all of creation to be restored but only effective for those who accept the free present of accepting Jesus as their personal Lord and Saviour. ' He is the only way the truth and the life '. When Jesus returns, it will be so obvious He is God that everyone will have to bow the knee. The Jews and Muslims who recognise Jesus as God will enter the millennium but maybe in non glorified bodies. Better to accept Him now and maybe not be on the earth during the Great Tribulation. " For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess 5:9). Keep running the race for which Christ Jesus took hold of you. God bless, Graham.
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Your question was when did Satan fall? Well to answer that question we have to know the truth who Satan is. So please read on.
The Word Satan Means Adversary Not Some Supernatural Being!
Many sects of Christendom, along with many other religions, believe that there is a being or monster called the Devil or Satan who is the originator of the problems which are in the world and in our own lives, and who is responsible for the sin which we commit. If we truly believe these things, then it is impossible that there is any supernatural being at work in this universe that is opposed to Almighty God. If we believe that such a being does exist, then surely we are questioning the supremacy of God Almighty. This issue is so important that the correct understanding of the devil and satan must be considered a vital doctrine. We are told in Heb.2:14 that Jesus destroyed the devil by his death; therefore, unless we have a correct understanding of the devil, we cannot understand the work or nature of Jesus.
The TRUTH about The Word Satan and It's meaning.
"SATAN" is a Hebrew word signifying "adversary," "enemy," or "accuser.
It is sometimes applied to a good adversary (Compare 1 Chron. 21:1 with 2 Sam. 24:1). It is used of an angel (Num. 22:22, 32, where the word is rendered "adversary" and "withstand"). The Apostle Peter was a "satan" on a certain occasion when he opposed his Master (Matt. 16:23). Kings and powers have been adversaries, or "satans" (See 1 Sam. 29:4; 2 Sam. 19:22; 1 Kings 11:14, 23, 25, where the word "adversary" is satan" in Hebrew. 1 Tim. 1:20).
Satan or Devil the TRUTH about their meanings
The Bible certainly does contain a number of allusions to the devil and Satan. And so to the Bible we turn. But let us get one thing clear right at the beginning: we must make every effort to understand what the Bible writers themselves meant by "devil" and "Satan". It is very easy for us, as we read Bible verses, to give to the terms devil and Satan the meaning which we prefer. And if that meaning is not the same as the Bible writer intended, then we are changing the true sense!
Many of us have had the experience of discussing the devil and Satan with others and have found that the discussion does not seem to get anywhere. And the reason is obvious: when Bible passages are read, devil and Satan are being understood by different readers in different senses. The conclusion is clear: if we are to arrive at the truth about the devil and Satan, we must find out what the Bible writers meant when they used those terms. It is no good relying upon our own understanding or other people's. We must know what the inspired writers of the Word of God understood about this important subject.
In a short work like this we cannot examine all the verses in the Bible which refer to the devil and Satan. But what we really need is a key-a basic understanding of what these terms mean. Armed with this, we should be able to unlock quite a lot of Bible passages.
First, Satan . . .
To find the vital key it is important to begin with the Old Testament, and not with the New. To modern ears this may sound strange, but remember that the Old Testament was written first, many centuries before the New. And since they both really form one revelation from God, the New Testament writers knew the Old Testament very well indeed. They quoted from it and they used its terms; and among the terms they used is Satan. (In fact the term "devil" occurs rarely in the Old Testament and is used differently there from the way it is used in the New.)
So we begin with Satan, the Old Testament term. What does the word "Satan" mean? It is not hard to find out. Take the case of Balaam who lived in the days when the children of Israel were wandering in the wilderness. He was a prophet who had been told by God not to go on a certain hired mission to curse the Israelites. But he wanted the money offered him as a reward, so he went. Riding upon an ass, he soon found his way blocked by an angel: "The angel of the Lord took his stand in the way as his adversary" (or enemy) (Numbers 22:22, RSV).
Adversary or Enemy
The word for "adversary" is Satan (from which we get our "Satan") and that is just what it means. Notice two things: Satan here is an ordinary word meaning adversary or enemy, and not the name of a person. The word occurs again only 10 verses later: the angel said to Balaam, "Behold, I am come forth to withstand you" (verse 32), literally "to be an adversary to you".
This is the first time the word Satan appears in the Hebrew record. Notice that this Satan is a good angel, "the angel of the Lord", who is doing what God wants, and not an evil one! If we look up in a Bible concordance the way the word Satan is used in the Old Testament, we shall find that it means an adversary and an enemy. For example: "Why," cried David, "should you (Joab and his brothers) be adversaries (satans) unto me?" (2 Samuel 19:22). And so in half a dozen other cases, where the allusion is usually to men.
Here we have one of the most frequently quoted cases in all the Bible. The first few verses of chapter one describe Job as living in the land of Uz, a God-fearing man who had many possessions. Then, verse 6:
"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them."
Satan in the Book of Job
"There you are", some people say, "Satan was in heaven among the angels! He must be a supernatural being!" But let us remember our vital rule: we must understand Bible terms in a Bible sense. "Sons of God", for instance: it is true that once in Job (38:7) this term is used of the angels; but in the Bible as a whole it is often used of men and women who really worship God as contrasted with those who do not. God used it of Israel through the prophet Isaiah:
"Bring my sons from far and my daughters from the ends of the earth, everyone who is called by my name . . ." (Isaiah 43:6-7)
So in the New Testament the apostle John, referring to believers in Christ, wrote: "Beloved, we are God's children now" (1 John 3:2). So the "sons of God" among whom "Satan" came (in Job chapter 1) need not be angels in heaven; they could be people on the earth.
But how could they "present themselves before the Lord" if they were not in heaven? Again the Bible itself gives us the answer. Moses and Joshua were once told to "present themselves" in the "tent of meeting", where God would appoint Joshua as the next leader of Israel (Deuteronomy 31:14-1 5). Many years later Joshua called together all the elders of the tribes of Israel to Shechem, where "they presented themselves before God" (Joshua 24:1). Later still, Samuel in his turn told Israel: "Present yourselves before the LORD . . ." (1 Samuel 10:19).
In the New Testament it is said that Mary, the mother of Jesus, shortly after the birth of her son, came to the temple in Jerusalem "to present him to the Lord . . . and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the law of the Lord" (Luke 2:22-24). The "sons of God" in Job, then, who came to "present themselves before the Lord", had come together to worship God in the appointed place, and, of course, in the presence of the appointed priest at that time. This is a scene of worship upon the earth, not in heaven.
But what of "Satan" who came among them? Here the English translators have not really played fair with us, for all the Hebrew says is "the adversary". The capital S in Satan is the translators' own invention, for Hebrew makes no distinction between capital letters and others. Even in the margin the Authorized and Revised Version translators have printed "the Adversary", suggesting by their capital A (for which they have no evidence) that this is that special Adversary, Satan. All that the Hebrew justifies us in saying is "the adversary came among them".
God is All-powerful
But who could this adversary be? If this was a group come together to worship, he would be one of them; in other words he was a man; and he was an enemy to Job, because he was jealous of him and wished him harm. But how then could there follow a conversation between the Lord and the adversary? Again the Bible itself supplies the answer, for in Old Testament times men often received messages from God through the appointed priest at the time. David, for instance, more than once consulted the priest when he wanted to know what God's will for him was, and the priest spoke to him on behalf of God. So this jealous enemy of Job-perhaps one who posed as his friend-said to God through the priest, "Job only serves you for what he can get. Just try bringing some trouble on him and then you will see." And God, because He had a great purpose with Job and desired to see him perfected, allowed the adversary to carry out his envious desire upon Job. But as the book clearly tells us, the power was God's and not the adversary's (Job 2:4-6).
So there is in this episode no need for a supernatural satan and no proof of one. All the expressions are commonly used of men. The Old Testament word Satan means an adversary; but as the example of Job shows us, there develops a natural tendency to use it of an evil adversary.
Peter -- a Satan!
With this valuable background understanding we now look at an example of the use of "satan" in the New Testament. Peter had just made his great declaration of belief in Jesus as "the Christ, the Son of the living God" and Jesus had pronounced a blessing upon him as a result. But Jesus then went on to speak of his own fate; he would have to go to Jerusalem and there the leaders of the Jews would seize him and he would be killed, but he would rise again the third day (Matthew 16:21). Peter could neither understand nor accept this and began to rebuke Jesus: "God forbid, Lord! This shall never happen to you." In other words, "You must not think of such a thing." But Jesus said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan: you are a hindrance to me."
Why was Peter a "satan"? Because he was being "an adversary" to Jesus; he was trying to persuade the Lord not to do what he knew had to be done in his obedience to the will of God. If Peter had had his way, Jesus would have rejected his Father's will and his great sacrifice for sin upon the cross ( tree ) would never have taken place. So Jesus had to tell this "adversary" (satan) to "get behind me". And then he adds a comment which is most important for our understanding: You are an adversary and a stumbling block to me, says Jesus in effect to Peter, for your mind is not on the "things of God, but the things of men" (verse 23, R.V.).
So this most important New Testament example teaches us some valuable lessons. First, this "satan" was a man; second, he rejected the will of God; third, what marked him out was that he desired to do the will of man instead-a most important clue, as we shall see later.
Let us remind ourselves what we have learned that a "satan" is an adversary, and nearly always an evil adversary. In the examples we have looked at, "satan" was:
an angel of God, doing his will;
a man posing as a worshipper of God;
other men who were "adversaries";
and now Peter, an apostle of the Lord, who was opposing the will of God.
With this general understanding of the meaning of "satan", we should find a lot of Bible passages much clearer.
There is a Bible called Young's Literal Translation that DOES NOT USE THE WORD SATAN but the word Adversary.
As a matter of fact the translation DOES NOT USE THE WORD SATAN NO WHERE IN THEIR BIBLE!!!
Hope This Helps
FirstCenturyBibleTruths
The Word Satan Means Adversary Not Some Supernatural Being!
Many sects of Christendom, along with many other religions, believe that there is a being or monster called the Devil or Satan who is the originator of the problems which are in the world and in our own lives, and who is responsible for the sin which we commit. If we truly believe these things, then it is impossible that there is any supernatural being at work in this universe that is opposed to Almighty God. If we believe that such a being does exist, then surely we are questioning the supremacy of God Almighty. This issue is so important that the correct understanding of the devil and satan must be considered a vital doctrine. We are told in Heb.2:14 that Jesus destroyed the devil by his death; therefore, unless we have a correct understanding of the devil, we cannot understand the work or nature of Jesus.
The TRUTH about The Word Satan and It's meaning.
"SATAN" is a Hebrew word signifying "adversary," "enemy," or "accuser.
It is sometimes applied to a good adversary (Compare 1 Chron. 21:1 with 2 Sam. 24:1). It is used of an angel (Num. 22:22, 32, where the word is rendered "adversary" and "withstand"). The Apostle Peter was a "satan" on a certain occasion when he opposed his Master (Matt. 16:23). Kings and powers have been adversaries, or "satans" (See 1 Sam. 29:4; 2 Sam. 19:22; 1 Kings 11:14, 23, 25, where the word "adversary" is satan" in Hebrew. 1 Tim. 1:20).
Satan or Devil the TRUTH about their meanings
The Bible certainly does contain a number of allusions to the devil and Satan. And so to the Bible we turn. But let us get one thing clear right at the beginning: we must make every effort to understand what the Bible writers themselves meant by "devil" and "Satan". It is very easy for us, as we read Bible verses, to give to the terms devil and Satan the meaning which we prefer. And if that meaning is not the same as the Bible writer intended, then we are changing the true sense!
Many of us have had the experience of discussing the devil and Satan with others and have found that the discussion does not seem to get anywhere. And the reason is obvious: when Bible passages are read, devil and Satan are being understood by different readers in different senses. The conclusion is clear: if we are to arrive at the truth about the devil and Satan, we must find out what the Bible writers meant when they used those terms. It is no good relying upon our own understanding or other people's. We must know what the inspired writers of the Word of God understood about this important subject.
In a short work like this we cannot examine all the verses in the Bible which refer to the devil and Satan. But what we really need is a key-a basic understanding of what these terms mean. Armed with this, we should be able to unlock quite a lot of Bible passages.
First, Satan . . .
To find the vital key it is important to begin with the Old Testament, and not with the New. To modern ears this may sound strange, but remember that the Old Testament was written first, many centuries before the New. And since they both really form one revelation from God, the New Testament writers knew the Old Testament very well indeed. They quoted from it and they used its terms; and among the terms they used is Satan. (In fact the term "devil" occurs rarely in the Old Testament and is used differently there from the way it is used in the New.)
So we begin with Satan, the Old Testament term. What does the word "Satan" mean? It is not hard to find out. Take the case of Balaam who lived in the days when the children of Israel were wandering in the wilderness. He was a prophet who had been told by God not to go on a certain hired mission to curse the Israelites. But he wanted the money offered him as a reward, so he went. Riding upon an ass, he soon found his way blocked by an angel: "The angel of the Lord took his stand in the way as his adversary" (or enemy) (Numbers 22:22, RSV).
Adversary or Enemy
The word for "adversary" is Satan (from which we get our "Satan") and that is just what it means. Notice two things: Satan here is an ordinary word meaning adversary or enemy, and not the name of a person. The word occurs again only 10 verses later: the angel said to Balaam, "Behold, I am come forth to withstand you" (verse 32), literally "to be an adversary to you".
This is the first time the word Satan appears in the Hebrew record. Notice that this Satan is a good angel, "the angel of the Lord", who is doing what God wants, and not an evil one! If we look up in a Bible concordance the way the word Satan is used in the Old Testament, we shall find that it means an adversary and an enemy. For example: "Why," cried David, "should you (Joab and his brothers) be adversaries (satans) unto me?" (2 Samuel 19:22). And so in half a dozen other cases, where the allusion is usually to men.
Here we have one of the most frequently quoted cases in all the Bible. The first few verses of chapter one describe Job as living in the land of Uz, a God-fearing man who had many possessions. Then, verse 6:
"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them."
Satan in the Book of Job
"There you are", some people say, "Satan was in heaven among the angels! He must be a supernatural being!" But let us remember our vital rule: we must understand Bible terms in a Bible sense. "Sons of God", for instance: it is true that once in Job (38:7) this term is used of the angels; but in the Bible as a whole it is often used of men and women who really worship God as contrasted with those who do not. God used it of Israel through the prophet Isaiah:
"Bring my sons from far and my daughters from the ends of the earth, everyone who is called by my name . . ." (Isaiah 43:6-7)
So in the New Testament the apostle John, referring to believers in Christ, wrote: "Beloved, we are God's children now" (1 John 3:2). So the "sons of God" among whom "Satan" came (in Job chapter 1) need not be angels in heaven; they could be people on the earth.
But how could they "present themselves before the Lord" if they were not in heaven? Again the Bible itself gives us the answer. Moses and Joshua were once told to "present themselves" in the "tent of meeting", where God would appoint Joshua as the next leader of Israel (Deuteronomy 31:14-1 5). Many years later Joshua called together all the elders of the tribes of Israel to Shechem, where "they presented themselves before God" (Joshua 24:1). Later still, Samuel in his turn told Israel: "Present yourselves before the LORD . . ." (1 Samuel 10:19).
In the New Testament it is said that Mary, the mother of Jesus, shortly after the birth of her son, came to the temple in Jerusalem "to present him to the Lord . . . and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the law of the Lord" (Luke 2:22-24). The "sons of God" in Job, then, who came to "present themselves before the Lord", had come together to worship God in the appointed place, and, of course, in the presence of the appointed priest at that time. This is a scene of worship upon the earth, not in heaven.
But what of "Satan" who came among them? Here the English translators have not really played fair with us, for all the Hebrew says is "the adversary". The capital S in Satan is the translators' own invention, for Hebrew makes no distinction between capital letters and others. Even in the margin the Authorized and Revised Version translators have printed "the Adversary", suggesting by their capital A (for which they have no evidence) that this is that special Adversary, Satan. All that the Hebrew justifies us in saying is "the adversary came among them".
God is All-powerful
But who could this adversary be? If this was a group come together to worship, he would be one of them; in other words he was a man; and he was an enemy to Job, because he was jealous of him and wished him harm. But how then could there follow a conversation between the Lord and the adversary? Again the Bible itself supplies the answer, for in Old Testament times men often received messages from God through the appointed priest at the time. David, for instance, more than once consulted the priest when he wanted to know what God's will for him was, and the priest spoke to him on behalf of God. So this jealous enemy of Job-perhaps one who posed as his friend-said to God through the priest, "Job only serves you for what he can get. Just try bringing some trouble on him and then you will see." And God, because He had a great purpose with Job and desired to see him perfected, allowed the adversary to carry out his envious desire upon Job. But as the book clearly tells us, the power was God's and not the adversary's (Job 2:4-6).
So there is in this episode no need for a supernatural satan and no proof of one. All the expressions are commonly used of men. The Old Testament word Satan means an adversary; but as the example of Job shows us, there develops a natural tendency to use it of an evil adversary.
Peter -- a Satan!
With this valuable background understanding we now look at an example of the use of "satan" in the New Testament. Peter had just made his great declaration of belief in Jesus as "the Christ, the Son of the living God" and Jesus had pronounced a blessing upon him as a result. But Jesus then went on to speak of his own fate; he would have to go to Jerusalem and there the leaders of the Jews would seize him and he would be killed, but he would rise again the third day (Matthew 16:21). Peter could neither understand nor accept this and began to rebuke Jesus: "God forbid, Lord! This shall never happen to you." In other words, "You must not think of such a thing." But Jesus said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan: you are a hindrance to me."
Why was Peter a "satan"? Because he was being "an adversary" to Jesus; he was trying to persuade the Lord not to do what he knew had to be done in his obedience to the will of God. If Peter had had his way, Jesus would have rejected his Father's will and his great sacrifice for sin upon the cross ( tree ) would never have taken place. So Jesus had to tell this "adversary" (satan) to "get behind me". And then he adds a comment which is most important for our understanding: You are an adversary and a stumbling block to me, says Jesus in effect to Peter, for your mind is not on the "things of God, but the things of men" (verse 23, R.V.).
So this most important New Testament example teaches us some valuable lessons. First, this "satan" was a man; second, he rejected the will of God; third, what marked him out was that he desired to do the will of man instead-a most important clue, as we shall see later.
Let us remind ourselves what we have learned that a "satan" is an adversary, and nearly always an evil adversary. In the examples we have looked at, "satan" was:
an angel of God, doing his will;
a man posing as a worshipper of God;
other men who were "adversaries";
and now Peter, an apostle of the Lord, who was opposing the will of God.
With this general understanding of the meaning of "satan", we should find a lot of Bible passages much clearer.
There is a Bible called Young's Literal Translation that DOES NOT USE THE WORD SATAN but the word Adversary.
As a matter of fact the translation DOES NOT USE THE WORD SATAN NO WHERE IN THEIR BIBLE!!!
Hope This Helps
FirstCenturyBibleTruths
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Stephen Andrew
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Peace to all,
To me, Satan's fall was when God told the angels mankind will receive flesh, making them greater than the angels Angels with only spirits in the souls of their beings, given temporary bodies and in some cases perhaps permanent beings for tasks given by God to perform in accordance to God's will on earth through them and in locations needed for service for all eternity. To me, in logic, God told the Angels that they will be mankind's servants to help Mankind through the "Word the became flesh" as The Christ to fulfill eternal love created by the fall of Adam and Eve, all through the Power of The Divine, some say "Holy" Spirit by the resurrection of the Flesh in the souls of all mankind as united in being, all manifested by the Shared Spirit will of God.
True, and thanks, FCBT. Peter was not the devil but he was a temporary "adversary". Peter just did not understand the Power of the Divine some say "Holy" Spirit will of God to all into becoming Baptized into the Church of The Christ as immortal and incorruptible. And then it is through The Christ we become regenerated and reconfirmed as some say "sanctified" through the Communion in the fellowship with all mankind becoming glorified and transfigured into the image of The Creator, God, The Father. If Peter had had his way, Jesus would have rejected his Father's will and his great sacrifice for sin upon the cross ( tree ) would never have taken place.
Peter was present at the Pentecost in the Upper Room and also was with Paul at the Pentecost of the Gentiles, when Peter said,
Who would not Baptize with water those Paul Baptized with The Divine, some say "Holy" Spirit? Here is perhaps logical proof water Baptism is not needed for the spirit, as in The Case for The Christ, but who would not Baptize through the flesh to the spirit in the soul of the Being, the Bodies for all to be able to become Transfigured through the death and resurrection of the flesh, through Baptism, as also in the Case for The Christ, of those in The Christ whom Paul saved through the Spirit.
True, in logic, and we know The Christ fulfilled all faith and morality through the New Covenant Sacrifice through the Divine Spirit.
SIMON PETER'S TIMELINE IN BIBLICAL HISTORY.
01 BC – Approximate time of the birth of Simon, son of Jonah, in the Galilean town of Bethsaida - (Matthew. 16:17, John. 12:21)
25-27 AD – Simon marries and has children. His family, along with his mother in-law, settles in Capernaum – (Mark. 1:30, Luke, 4:38)
30 AD - Simon meets Jesus through the help of his brother Andrew who was a follower of John the Baptist. – (Matthew 4:18-19 and John 1:42-43)
30 AD – While Peter and Andrew are fishing at the Sea of Galilee, Jesus sees them and asks them to follow Him. – (Matthew 4:18, Mark 1:16-18)
30 AD - Jesus visits Peter’s house and cure Peter’s sick mother-in-law. – (Matthew 8:14-15, Mark 1:29-31, Luke 4:38-39)
30 AD - Peter casts his net in the deep ocean after being told by Jesus to do so. He tells Jesus that they have tried all night to do so and without success. When he did as he was told, they caught a great number of fish. – (Luke 5:4-7)
30 AD - Jesus add to the name of Simon, Peter (from the Greek word petros meaning rock or stone). – (Mark 3:16, Luke 6:14, John 1:42)
31-32 AD - Peter becomes one of the witnesses to a miracle Jesus performed, raising a little girl back from the dead. – (Matthew 9:23-26, Mark 5:37-43, Luke 8:51-55)
31-32 AD - The apostles and Simon Peter see Jesus walking on water, Peter asks Jesus to command him to walk to Him. Peter tries to walk on water, but he failed. – (Matthew 14:28-29, John 6:19-20)
31-32 AD - Simon Peter makes a pronouncement about the deity of Jesus. – (Matthew 16:16, John 6:68-69)
31-32 AD - Jesus tell Peter that he will build his church on him. – (Matthew 16:18)
31-32 AD - After Jesus proclaims that He will be killed and then rise on the third day, Peter, rebukes Him. – (Matthew 16:21-23, Mark 8:31-33)
31-32 AD - Peter, along with James and John, witness the transfiguration of Jesus and the appearance of Moses and Elijah on a mountain. – (Matthew 17:1-3, Mark 9:2-3, Luke 9:29-32)
Shortly after the Transfiguration of The Christ, perhaps in 32 AD, the keys were given out to all who believe that Jesus is God from the Cross 33 AD.
God's children now" (1 John 3:2). So the "sons of God" among whom "Satan" came (in Job chapter 1) need not be angels in heaven; they could be people on the earth.
This, then, seems to be the moral of Joab's story: do not let your pursuit of an earthly kingdom blind you to the need to serve the spiritual kingdom.
Peter had just made his great declaration of belief in Jesus as "the Christ, the Son of the living God" and Jesus had pronounced a blessing upon him as a result. But Jesus then went on to speak of his own fate; he would have to go to Jerusalem and there the leaders of the Jews would seize him and he would be killed, but he would rise again the third day (Matthew 16:21). Peter could neither understand nor accept this and began to rebuke Jesus: "God forbid, Lord! This shall never happen to you." In other words, "You must not think of such a thing." But Jesus said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan: you are a hindrance to me." An Adversary, someone or something that struggles with, opposes, or resists :an enemy, opponent, like a "devil" or hindrance of sort.
True, as and adversary, Peter was a hindrance to Christ’s fulfillment in the New Covenant, Peter was not the devil, he just did not understand the Power of the Divine some say "Holy" Spirit will of God to transfigure US all into the Christ. After Christ’s response to Peter, Peter quickly understood Christ’s mission.
"Bring my sons from far and my daughters from the ends of the earth, everyone who is called by my name . . ." (Isaiah 43:6-7)
All things are delivered to me by my Father. And no one knoweth the Son, but the Father: neither doth any one know the Father, but the Son, and he to whom it shall please the Son to reveal him.
31-32 AD - After Jesus proclaims that He will be killed and then rise on the third day, Peter "as just a temporary adversary", rebukes Him. – (Matthew 16:21-23, Mark 8:31-33)
31-32 AD - Peter, along with James and John, witness the transfiguration of Jesus and the appearance of Moses and Elijah on a mountain. – (Matthew 17:1-3, Mark 9:2-3, Luke 9:29-32)
Shortly after the Transfiguration of The Christ, perhaps in 32 AD, the keys were given out to all who believe that Jesus is God from the Cross 33 AD, and if everything were written, not even the world could contain the books.
We know our sin separates us from our Holy God. In His mercy, God calls us to return to Him and be healed, cleansed, forgiven, and fully restored to relationship with Him. The Lord is calling you today to reason together with Him. Though our sin is like scarlet, He will make "The Spirit" in the Soul of The Being in The Body of Our Christ as white as snow. Transfigured.
Thanks to all in helping the wording in logic and truth and rational thinking to reflect as the teachings of Christ that I may need to review, thanks again, for your help, Stephen.
Peace always,
Stephen
To me, Satan's fall was when God told the angels mankind will receive flesh, making them greater than the angels Angels with only spirits in the souls of their beings, given temporary bodies and in some cases perhaps permanent beings for tasks given by God to perform in accordance to God's will on earth through them and in locations needed for service for all eternity. To me, in logic, God told the Angels that they will be mankind's servants to help Mankind through the "Word the became flesh" as The Christ to fulfill eternal love created by the fall of Adam and Eve, all through the Power of The Divine, some say "Holy" Spirit by the resurrection of the Flesh in the souls of all mankind as united in being, all manifested by the Shared Spirit will of God.
True, and thanks, FCBT. Peter was not the devil but he was a temporary "adversary". Peter just did not understand the Power of the Divine some say "Holy" Spirit will of God to all into becoming Baptized into the Church of The Christ as immortal and incorruptible. And then it is through The Christ we become regenerated and reconfirmed as some say "sanctified" through the Communion in the fellowship with all mankind becoming glorified and transfigured into the image of The Creator, God, The Father. If Peter had had his way, Jesus would have rejected his Father's will and his great sacrifice for sin upon the cross ( tree ) would never have taken place.
Peter was present at the Pentecost in the Upper Room and also was with Paul at the Pentecost of the Gentiles, when Peter said,
Who would not Baptize with water those Paul Baptized with The Divine, some say "Holy" Spirit? Here is perhaps logical proof water Baptism is not needed for the spirit, as in The Case for The Christ, but who would not Baptize through the flesh to the spirit in the soul of the Being, the Bodies for all to be able to become Transfigured through the death and resurrection of the flesh, through Baptism, as also in the Case for The Christ, of those in The Christ whom Paul saved through the Spirit.
True, in logic, and we know The Christ fulfilled all faith and morality through the New Covenant Sacrifice through the Divine Spirit.
SIMON PETER'S TIMELINE IN BIBLICAL HISTORY.
01 BC – Approximate time of the birth of Simon, son of Jonah, in the Galilean town of Bethsaida - (Matthew. 16:17, John. 12:21)
25-27 AD – Simon marries and has children. His family, along with his mother in-law, settles in Capernaum – (Mark. 1:30, Luke, 4:38)
30 AD - Simon meets Jesus through the help of his brother Andrew who was a follower of John the Baptist. – (Matthew 4:18-19 and John 1:42-43)
30 AD – While Peter and Andrew are fishing at the Sea of Galilee, Jesus sees them and asks them to follow Him. – (Matthew 4:18, Mark 1:16-18)
30 AD - Jesus visits Peter’s house and cure Peter’s sick mother-in-law. – (Matthew 8:14-15, Mark 1:29-31, Luke 4:38-39)
30 AD - Peter casts his net in the deep ocean after being told by Jesus to do so. He tells Jesus that they have tried all night to do so and without success. When he did as he was told, they caught a great number of fish. – (Luke 5:4-7)
30 AD - Jesus add to the name of Simon, Peter (from the Greek word petros meaning rock or stone). – (Mark 3:16, Luke 6:14, John 1:42)
31-32 AD - Peter becomes one of the witnesses to a miracle Jesus performed, raising a little girl back from the dead. – (Matthew 9:23-26, Mark 5:37-43, Luke 8:51-55)
31-32 AD - The apostles and Simon Peter see Jesus walking on water, Peter asks Jesus to command him to walk to Him. Peter tries to walk on water, but he failed. – (Matthew 14:28-29, John 6:19-20)
31-32 AD - Simon Peter makes a pronouncement about the deity of Jesus. – (Matthew 16:16, John 6:68-69)
31-32 AD - Jesus tell Peter that he will build his church on him. – (Matthew 16:18)
31-32 AD - After Jesus proclaims that He will be killed and then rise on the third day, Peter, rebukes Him. – (Matthew 16:21-23, Mark 8:31-33)
31-32 AD - Peter, along with James and John, witness the transfiguration of Jesus and the appearance of Moses and Elijah on a mountain. – (Matthew 17:1-3, Mark 9:2-3, Luke 9:29-32)
Shortly after the Transfiguration of The Christ, perhaps in 32 AD, the keys were given out to all who believe that Jesus is God from the Cross 33 AD.
God's children now" (1 John 3:2). So the "sons of God" among whom "Satan" came (in Job chapter 1) need not be angels in heaven; they could be people on the earth.
This, then, seems to be the moral of Joab's story: do not let your pursuit of an earthly kingdom blind you to the need to serve the spiritual kingdom.
Peter had just made his great declaration of belief in Jesus as "the Christ, the Son of the living God" and Jesus had pronounced a blessing upon him as a result. But Jesus then went on to speak of his own fate; he would have to go to Jerusalem and there the leaders of the Jews would seize him and he would be killed, but he would rise again the third day (Matthew 16:21). Peter could neither understand nor accept this and began to rebuke Jesus: "God forbid, Lord! This shall never happen to you." In other words, "You must not think of such a thing." But Jesus said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan: you are a hindrance to me." An Adversary, someone or something that struggles with, opposes, or resists :an enemy, opponent, like a "devil" or hindrance of sort.
True, as and adversary, Peter was a hindrance to Christ’s fulfillment in the New Covenant, Peter was not the devil, he just did not understand the Power of the Divine some say "Holy" Spirit will of God to transfigure US all into the Christ. After Christ’s response to Peter, Peter quickly understood Christ’s mission.
"Bring my sons from far and my daughters from the ends of the earth, everyone who is called by my name . . ." (Isaiah 43:6-7)
All things are delivered to me by my Father. And no one knoweth the Son, but the Father: neither doth any one know the Father, but the Son, and he to whom it shall please the Son to reveal him.
31-32 AD - After Jesus proclaims that He will be killed and then rise on the third day, Peter "as just a temporary adversary", rebukes Him. – (Matthew 16:21-23, Mark 8:31-33)
31-32 AD - Peter, along with James and John, witness the transfiguration of Jesus and the appearance of Moses and Elijah on a mountain. – (Matthew 17:1-3, Mark 9:2-3, Luke 9:29-32)
Shortly after the Transfiguration of The Christ, perhaps in 32 AD, the keys were given out to all who believe that Jesus is God from the Cross 33 AD, and if everything were written, not even the world could contain the books.
We know our sin separates us from our Holy God. In His mercy, God calls us to return to Him and be healed, cleansed, forgiven, and fully restored to relationship with Him. The Lord is calling you today to reason together with Him. Though our sin is like scarlet, He will make "The Spirit" in the Soul of The Being in The Body of Our Christ as white as snow. Transfigured.
Thanks to all in helping the wording in logic and truth and rational thinking to reflect as the teachings of Christ that I may need to review, thanks again, for your help, Stephen.
Peace always,
Stephen
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I beheld Satan fall like lighting. Luke 10:18
Therefore Satan fell sometime during the initial time of Christ.
and the dragon stood before the woman (Israel) which was ready to give birth, for (the dragon) (tried) to devour her child as soon as it was born.
And she brought forth a man child who was to rule the nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God,
and to His throne ( Matthew 2:2-13 Hebrews 12:2 Revelation chapter 5 ) Revelation 12:4-5
And let us not give heed to oppositions of science falsely so called.
God created the world alone, by Himself. Isaiah 44:24
The enemy will prosper with deception related to the stars.
He cast down some of the stars to the ground and trampled on them....
He cast down the truth to the ground
Daniel 8:10, 12
The whole order of the stars shall be concealed from the sinners, and they shall error concerning them,
and take them as gods.
Enoch 80:7
Therefore Satan fell sometime during the initial time of Christ.
and the dragon stood before the woman (Israel) which was ready to give birth, for (the dragon) (tried) to devour her child as soon as it was born.
And she brought forth a man child who was to rule the nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God,
and to His throne ( Matthew 2:2-13 Hebrews 12:2 Revelation chapter 5 ) Revelation 12:4-5
And let us not give heed to oppositions of science falsely so called.
God created the world alone, by Himself. Isaiah 44:24
The enemy will prosper with deception related to the stars.
He cast down some of the stars to the ground and trampled on them....
He cast down the truth to the ground
Daniel 8:10, 12
The whole order of the stars shall be concealed from the sinners, and they shall error concerning them,
and take them as gods.
Enoch 80:7
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You have to control the Temple Mount. They could set up a tent but the Muslims would not allow that. I hear they are ready to go and could resume sacrifices within 24 hours. From time to time they try to set a corner stone for the temple but they get kicked out.
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Satan fell sometime after he was created, but before we read in the Bible that there is an antagonistic ha-Shaytan figure that exists.
It's simply impossible to know when that happened.
-CryptoLutheran
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