When did Anglicanism go astray?

[JM]

I write this as someone who loves the BCP and partakes of the service often but I do have a question, when did the theology of Anglicanism turn into Progressivism? Recently an Iranian Anglican traveled to North American and could not find an Anglican that was not teaching immorality or at least supporting sin so he became a Presbyterian. He said the Anglicans in the Middle East, Asia and Africa are giving up martyrs but the Anglican in North American are only teaching immorality and persecuting believers. He was shocked at how unchristian the Anglicans in NA are compared to the Anglican being harassed in Iran.

For my Calvinist and Reformed brothers and sisters...what happened to them?

Yours in the Lord,

jm
PS: I asked in the Anglican forum and one poster was pretty emotional about it and attacked the man who fled the liberalism in Anglicanism.

 

[Albion]

For the benefit of your readers and members, here is the thread that JM was referring to. He apparently did not care for the answer given or for a similar one given by another poster on the Anglican forum. http://www.christianforums.com/thre...hurch-go-off-the-rails.7947690/#post-69648702

 

[Paidiske]

I'll copy what I posted in the other thread:

I didn't answer at first because I have no experience of the theological landscape in North America. Some of the stuff I hear from out there sounds like I'd find it beyond the pale, but I imagine that rumour probably makes it far worse than it actually is. (You know how the saying goes; only believe half of what they say about me, and I'll only believe half of what they say about you...)

But it would probably help us to have a productive discussion if we can define some terms. Can you define what you mean by "progressivism"?

 

[JM]

I've limited the op to Reformed and Calvinist brothers and sisters. Thank you for understanding.

How is it possible for an Anglican that claims to confess the faith contained in the BCP to remain in communion with those who clearly reject it such as the American Episcopal church? In Baptist or Presbyterian conventions/synods, there is some difference of style and belief, but not a fundamental difference in worldview or philosophy. I'm trying to wrap my head around how the Anglicanism produced brilliant lights such as Charles Simeon, Augustus Toplady, etc. but now, as a communion, has largely abandoned the faith it professed.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/the-collapse-of-the-liberal-church/article4443228/

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-against-liberal-us-church-same-sex-marriage

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kyle-jarrett/anglican-punishment-of-ep_3_b_9001442.html

http://religionnews.com/2016/01/14/episcopal-church-suspended-anglican-communion/

http://www.theweek.co.uk/68403/will-the-anglican-church-split-over-homosexuality


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...ican-rivals-use-separate-rooms-at-summit.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...and-attendance-falls-below-million-first-time

This liberalism within American Anglicanism seems to be producing conservative offshoots and these spinoffs are growing.

These splinter groups preaching the Gospel are far and few between.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[Arcangl86]

A Baptist goes into the reformed forum to complain about Anglicanism and then gets upset when Anglicans answer?

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

To be fair, I could say that Anglicanism went astray when they didn't follow through with the Reformation to the extent of becoming Reformed. Or I could say when they didn't listen to John Wesley and so didn't become Methodist, leading to his followers forming their own churches.
But I can't really say either, for Anglicanism is still fighting this battle. You yourself mention the other branches that are more conservative and if I remember correctly there were congregations in America that were also threatening to leave the Episcopalian Church.

We can't really comment on the inner workings of another's Church, just pray that God leads them to the truth. We should rather see where the different branches of Christianity can work together where we agree, rather than picking fights between churches about where we differ. We can debate the differences in a wholesome understanding way, but this seems a bit confrontational and emotive.

 

[.Mikha'el.]

ON!

Thread moved from Reformed to Denomination-Specific Theology!

OFF!

 

[Job8]

when did the theology of Anglicanism turn into Progressivism?

Back in the 19th century (possibly even earlier). Theological liberalism reared its ugly head firstly in the German seminaries, and then infected the seminaries and clergy in England and America in the 19th and 20th centuries. Higher Criticism had a lot to do with this transformation. And it is NOT "progressivism". Let's call a spade a spade. It is apostasy, plain and simple.

 

[Job8]

We can't really comment on the inner workings of another's Church, just pray that God leads them to the truth.

Why not? We can and should comment on any body which calls itself "Christian". And God will not lead people into the truth after they deliberately turn their back on the truth.

 

[Albion]

Why not? .

Because it takes more than a cursory knowledge of that faith in order to speak accurately.

 

[Paidiske]

Back in the 19th century (possibly even earlier). Theological liberalism reared its ugly head firstly in the German seminaries, and then infected the seminaries and clergy in England and America in the 19th and 20th centuries. Higher Criticism had a lot to do with this transformation. And it is NOT "progressivism". Let's call a spade a spade. It is apostasy, plain and simple.

I would argue that theological liberalism, and social progressivism (or liberalism, if you prefer) are not quite the same thing. One is about theology and approaches to understanding Scripture, and the other is about how the dynamics of our society should be structured. It is possible to be quite liberal in one of these directions and not at all in another (eg. the person who reads the Bible as a collection of inspiring, but untrue, stories, but is still socially conservative).

 

[JM]

A Baptist goes into the reformed forum to complain about Anglicanism and then gets upset when Anglicans answer?

It wasn't a complaint but a lament, a deep sorrow, a mourning over the current state of Anglicanism in the West.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
PS: Historically speaking Baptists have been Reformed. Please see the Confession in my sig, it lines up with the Westminster in almost every area.

 

[bbbbbbb]

As a non-Anglican I can assure you that there is no uniformity within the churches affiliated in North America with Canterbury. Just across the Mississippi River from here there is an entire diocese which departed the Episcopal Church in America and is now Anglican in name and conservative in its theology.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I would argue that theological liberalism, and social progressivism (or liberalism, if you prefer) are not quite the same thing. One is about theology and approaches to understanding Scripture, and the other is about how the dynamics of our society should be structured. It is possible to be quite liberal in one of these directions and not at all in another (eg. the person who reads the Bible as a collection of inspiring, but untrue, stories, but is still socially conservative).

The two go hand in hand, almost always because one naturally leads to the other.

 

[Paidiske]

I see them rather as two axes, and that people might find themselves in different places on the plane described by those axes.

I used to think the way you did, Brian, until I worked in a context with many socially progressive but theologically very orthodox people who forced me to reevaluate.

 

[Job8]

Because it takes more than a cursory knowledge of that faith in order to speak accurately.

I would say that I have more than a cursory knowledge of Anglicanism. Regardless, there is no denying that -- in general -- the Church of England as well as Episcoalians in North America departed from Bible truth a long time ago. More recently we have the Jesus Seminar apostates claiming to tell us that they discovered the *historical Jesus*.

 

[Albion]

I would say that I have more than a cursory knowledge of Anglicanism. Regardless, there is no denying that -- in general -- the Church of England as well as Episcoalians in North America departed from Bible truth a long time ago. More recently we have the Jesus Seminar apostates claiming to tell us that they discovered the *historical Jesus*.

Well, without commenting on the particular charges or issues, what you say may be true of some Anglicans and Anglican churches, but not others. To that extent, the same can be said of almost every denomination, unfortunately.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The two go hand in hand, almost always because one naturally leads to the other.

Although this seems to be true in the United States, it is not generally true in other areas of the world. In Europe some of the most radically liberal theologians lined themselves up with the most radically conservative political party in Germany in the 1930's.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Although this seems to be true in the United States, it is not generally true in other areas of the world. In Europe some of the most radically liberal theologians lined themselves up with the most radically conservative political party in Germany in the 1930's.

That was 85 years ago. The same can't be said now in the US or Europe.

 

[bbbbbbb]

That was 85 years ago. The same can't be said now in the US or Europe.

Well, the last time I checked the Christian Democratic party was still very alive and active in Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_democracy