When Are Christians Going To Realize . . .

[CreedIsChrist]

And yet they can never come up with an answer when confronted with the question, "why do you have such an unhealthy fixation with gay sex?"

Personally I don't think it woulda been a problem until the homosexual community started to attack marriage. Once they attacked marriage they put themselves in the limelight. They are gonna have to deal with the problems associated with trying to change marriage and the amount of children that are unknowingly being forced into these positions

 

[CreedIsChrist]

A gay pastor who insists (keyword) on living as a gay man in a gay relationship is NOT under grace because he is abusing it.

I agree they are pretty much presumptiously sinning. Taking God's grace for granted. I true believer dosen't do that. WHenever he sins he feels remorse and guilt. If he dosen't feel remorse when he sins, then something is very wrong.

People want to justify sins because its what they like. A pig likes to roll around in its dirt

 

[Flibbertigibbet]

It's a huge issue. How can a pastor who is gay stand in front of a congregation and preach the word of God and not be laughed at? Everyone, except those who want to revise it, know scripture condemns homosexuality in no uncertain terms. If a gay pastor stood up there and ranted and raved about it being a sin for hours and hours every last person in that congregation, be they gay, straight, or confused would laugh at him. Because he sins? No, more because he's a hypocrite.

We all fall, and we all screw up whether it is sexual sin, or anything else. That's what grace is about, but how you live your life is a form of preaching. If you live your life in constant intentional sin and then get up and tell people not to sin it just doesn't work. It has to do with Christ's teaching about pulling the log out of your own eye so you can see the plank in your brother's eye and help him pull it out.

Homosexuality is condemned by the church because it is sin. Is it a worse sin than any other out there? No it is not. And really that gets to the heart of the whole matter. Even one single breach of the law of God is a sin against God.

And that's what grace is about. Not the grace to never again break the law, but the grace of God to forgive us for breaking the law. But a homosexual pastor who insists on living a life contrary to what God tells us is holy and righteous is abusing grace. They are assuming God has given us a license to sin, but again scripture directly contradicts that position.

So don't sin because you have grace, but instead use grace for what it is intended; recognize your sin, repent (turn away from) and continue on the path of righteousness. If you sin continually keep repenting until you get it right. God's grace knows no limits if the intention of your heart is to obey him.

A gay pastor who insists (keyword) on living as a gay man in a gay relationship is NOT under grace because he is abusing it.

*** Disclaimer - I used the words gay man throughout, but it is interchangeable with gay woman. Just didn't feel like using both all the time.

Well said.

I agree they are pretty much presumptiously sinning. Taking God's grace for granted. I true believer dosen't do that. WHenever he sins he feels remorse and guilt. If he dosen't feel remorse when he sins, then something is very wrong.

People want to justify sins because its what they like. A pig likes to roll around in its dirt

And, perhaps, not so well said. Unless, of course, you mean that we are all pigs in which case I heartily agree although it wouldn't be my choice of words. As I stated in an earlier post, we ALL have a tendency to want to make God's Word fit our lives, rather than vice-versa. It's the human condition, and it's the work of the Holy Spirit to iron it all out, but a few well-spoken words might also give reason for further consideration (it did for me).

 

[katautumn]

Personally I don't think it woulda been a problem until the homosexual community started to attack marriage.

And it wouldn't have been a problem had those pesky women not started attacking the American voting system or those troublesome black folks hadn't started attacking marriage so that they could weasel their way into good white families, right? It's no different. Civil rights are civil rights and when one group considers an effort to be afforded civil rights as "an attack" there is a problem.

I agree they are pretty much presumptiously sinning. Taking God's grace for granted. I true believer dosen't do that.

Please. True believers do it every time you call them out for acting like a jerk and they respond with, "well, I'm not perfect. Just forgiven."

People want to justify sins because its what they like. A pig likes to roll around in its dirt

I always love the nasty little slang words to describe those considered "less than". Casting your pearls before swine. A pig likes to roll in its own dirt. A dog returns to his own vomit.

 

[Justifiedbytheblood]

And it wouldn't have been a problem had those pesky women not started attacking the American voting system or those troublesome black folks hadn't started attacking marriage so that they could weasel their way into good white families, right? It's no different. Civil rights are civil rights and when one group considers an effort to be afforded civil rights as "an attack" there is a problem.

Yes, it is very much different. Those abuses against women and blacks went against the teachings of scripture. The problem was that it was such a part of the norm of society that nobody would speak out against the abuses. You cannot show me anywhere in the Bible where women and blacks are condemned. On the other hand, I can show you, in both the OT and the NT, where homosexual activity is clearly condemned. Yet you just want to ignore it in the name of "enlightenment". You are just as bad as those who ignored scripture to abuse women and blacks.

 

[katautumn]

Yes, it is very much different. Those abuses against women and blacks went against the teachings of scripture. The problem was that it was such a part of the norm of society that nobody would speak out against the abuses. You cannot show me anywhere in the Bible where women and blacks are condemned. On the other hand, I can show you, in both the OT and the NT, where homosexual activity is clearly condemned. Yet you just want to ignore it in the name of "enlightenment".

But people found Biblical justification, even if it meant twisting certain passages to say things they didn't. And the Bible does speak against women being in any sort of position of authority over men.

You are just as bad as those who ignored scripture to abuse women and blacks.

Really? Last time I checked I was simply supporting the right for two people who are of legal age to give consent to be married to one another. Using Scriptures to deny civil rights when said group seeking rights does not take away from the rights of others is always wrong.

 

[Justifiedbytheblood]

But people found Biblical justification, even if it meant twisting certain passages to say things they didn't. And the Bible does speak against women being in any sort of position of authority over men.

No, there was no actual justification. It was ignorance of clear Biblical teaching, choosing instead to follow self-conceived notions of right and wrong rather than Biblical morality. There were plenty of people who read and studied scripture and who understood the context of 1 Corinthians 11 who did not discriminate against women and blacks.

Really? Last time I checked I was simply supporting the right for two people who are of legal age to give consent to be married to one another. Using Scriptures to deny civil rights when said group seeking rights does not take away from the rights of others is always wrong.

The Bible is clear on this issue. I'm not sure what measure you are using to determine right and wrong, but it clearly isn't scripture.

 

[marksman315]

I agree they are pretty much presumptiously sinning. Taking God's grace for granted. I true believer dosen't do that. WHenever he sins he feels remorse and guilt. If he dosen't feel remorse when he sins, then something is very wrong.

People want to justify sins because its what they like. A pig likes to roll around in its dirt

You hit the nail on the head. This is probably why they cannot see their own sin, and they are working so hard to justify their own actions.

 

[marksman315]

.

Let's say that a heterosexual person attends a church where a gay or lesbian person is acting as pastor. Let's say the pastor never preaches either for or against homosexuality. Further, let's say that the heterosexual member truly believes that Jesus Christ died for their sins and is their Lord and Savior. Is it really that big of an issue what the sexual orientation of their pastor is? How many Protestants are under the spiritual authority and leadership of a straight, seemingly happily married preacher who commits adultery, looks at pornography or is up to their eyeballs in debt because they have a spending addiction?

I believe that a pastor should lead by example. It truly does not matter what the sin is (homosexuality, adultery, pornography, etc...). If a pastor has never shown remorse or repentance, then they are teaching their people that it is ok to do as they do. This is why it is very important. If I knew a pastor was openly sinning, and has never been remorseful or repentant about it, then how can I believe that they are teaching me the truth? It's open rebellion to God.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

And it wouldn't have been a problem had those pesky women not started attacking the American voting system or those troublesome black folks hadn't started attacking marriage so that they could weasel their way into good white families, right? It's no different. Civil rights are civil rights and when one group considers an effort to be afforded civil rights as "an attack" there is a problem.

Please. True believers do it every time you call them out for acting like a jerk and they respond with, "well, I'm not perfect. Just forgiven."

I always love the nasty little slang words to describe those considered "less than". Casting your pearls before swine. A pig likes to roll in its own dirt. A dog returns to his own vomit.

Problem is gays are not a minority status, and no matter how much they try to get that minority status shield they will always fail because you cannot base minority status on sexuality. We would all be minoritys if that happened. Minority status requires a physical attribute, like skin pigment. Homosexuals do not have minority physical traits and thus they do not classify as a minority like blacks or mexicans. You cannot base minority status on physical actions, there has to be a physical attribute that they were born with that is physical.

The gay community has brought most of this on themselfs because of their attack on marriage which 70% of the whole US VOTED AGAINST. To go against something that the vast majority did not want and that many people would see as hurting the family stability and children of our society(as well as the denial of a childs rights to have both mother and father) still was ignored.

Does someone have the right to change the whole structure and meaning of marriage for the past 5000 years simply because they have a lust for someone of the same sex? I don't know about you, but I find that quite presumptuous and arrogant. Why should the stability of what marriage always will and has been cater to your lusts? What makes you so special that you have the right to change 5000 years of what marriage and family means?

If someone has to change marriage because they want validation of their sexual lifestyle, then they have SERIOUS insecurity issues about who they really are and it truely shows that they feel shame for what they do. Admit it, the gay community dosen't want truth or family values, they want justification. THat is what this is all about anyway. Justification of sin. The more justification you can get the more you can avoid the real issue without the guilt, "Having your cake and eating it too"

 

[MasadaCorban]

Your lament is partially true, in that breaking one part of the law you are guilty of breaking the law entirely, because the perfection rule applies to the law of God. However, there it is also true that the Bible establishes varying degrees of punishment and guilt, which establishes varying degrees of offense. Also true in your lament is a certain fixation on homosexuality by the "Christian" community at large, but you fail to address this is also reactionary. Their are few heterosexual adulterers forming activist orgs to establish such behavior as an alternative lifestyle, demanding their rights to be such or to promote such amongst school children. I have yet to hear of an "Adulterer's Day" such as their is a "Gay Day." Not only "Christians", but also those not vocal about their faith or religion are simply fed up with the continual bombardment of Hollywood, private orgs and the like demanding not merely equal but special status for the gay movement. It is no different than all the Christian bashing by the non Christians, especially the gay movement. Raise up your voice and you must expect reaction. Their are two sides to this lament, but you only cover one.

 

[Yab Yum]

How's your attempt at rewriting the Bible going for you? Because that's exactly what you are trying to do. Rewrite it so it says what you want it to say.

If you are a man, are you circumcised? Do you eat pig or lobster? If you are a man and have a bodily discharge, what do you generally do? If you are a woman, has anyone ever touched you during your period? Do you wear clothing woven from two kinds of thread?

 

[Yab Yum]

Dupe post deleted.

 

[Yab Yum]

Because they don't engage in it, nor have any desire for it, so it's easier to condemn others.

They say same sex marriages will destroy true marriage, but I say that porngraphy destroys it all the time and currently right now, not in the future. Why don't they fight against it then as fervently as they do homosexual marriage? I'll tell you why, it's because most of these "christian" men are caught up in it.

It's not even the right way to go about it even if most of them weren't hypocrits in the matter.

Bravo. When I have no planks in my own eye I'll criticize the mote in my brother's eye.

 

[bsd13]

If you are a man, are you circumcised? Do you eat pig or lobster? If you are a man and have a bodily discharge, what do you generally do? If you are a woman, has anyone ever touched you during your period? Do you wear clothing woven from two kinds of thread?

Go do a study on grace and law and get back to me.

The OP in this thread is trying to say that homosexuality is not a sin forbidden by the law, and/or that it is so outdated that it's not applicable for today.

What are you getting at?

 

[MasadaCorban]

I joined this site with the below story written by me for my gay brother to contemplate, as an intro. I was immediately reported by several members of the Flower Brigade, and within a week it was removed. Not a word from anyone regarding the story itself. I later posted it under the so-called writer's section. Not a word. So much for the original lament of this thread which complained of all Christians wanting to jump on the anti-gay wagon, though this is anti-gay only in that it does not condone homosexuality and addresses the inarguable outcome if all creation became homosexual, establishing it can in no way simply be an alternative to God's original purpose of sex between a man and a woman. If this is not a proper thread to post it as a Christian theological statement, well, I guess I'll have to stick with the secular sites.

The Royal Island of Beauty

In the land of a wise and godly king, the voice of its homosexual population came to him in an uproar.

“We demand our rights! We demand our rights! We demand our rights!”

The cry undulated across the Great Square like waves of a windblown ocean. The crest of each came crashing upon the face of the Royal Palace.

In a short time the king appeared on his balcony from which he always addressed the people. He raised one hand above the multitude below and silence prepared the way for his words.

“What are these rights which are yours and you demand?’ And he listened as always he did.

“Only a homosexual can understand a homosexual!” shouted a voice from out of the multitude. “We demand to be governed by one of our own!”

The king now located that voice in the crowd just below the balcony. He observed in the hands of him who spoke a scroll. To him the king directed his words.

“If there be injustice now, there will be injustice then, for where there are those like you, there are also those not like you.”

“It is for this reason, O king,” called back the voice below with much respect, “that we men and woman who are of a biological nature different from general society, need and must have a society of our own. A geographical, political and emotional autonomy. A society which guarantees our biological nature the sexual and emotional freedoms to which it is entitled as a creation of God. We denounce those who declare us to be abnormal, and condemn us as sinful, judging not only us, but also God, who Himself made each of us what we are. And so we turn to His love and righteousness in you, O king, not as a mob, but as a people, beseeching the power of your sovereignty to grant us justice. We have gathered this evening to declare our right to possess and govern a homosexual province, a province within whose borders everyday life and society will reflect our God given biology. Homosexual love must have its place as a norm. It must be represented in law and science, in literature and theater and all the arts, in all schools and in all professions and all churches. Homosexual love is God’s love too. Homosexuals are God’s children also. And we have the God-given right to be who we are and love who we love and love in a culture where we may do so without shame or condemnation. And here, O king, upon this scroll have we penned a constitution, the laws and ways which shall govern our homosexual province. And now, on behalf of all the male and female, young and old – names upon a petition, I beseech thee, O king, grant to our cause your ear, and listen with the wisdom of God that is yours.”

And the king said, “Let your Voice be heard.”


After the reading the king ordered silence throughout the palace and withdrew from all others into the solitude of his chambers. At once he lay aside his purple robe. Alone in an unlit alcove he knelt before a window opened out to the Royal Gardens. He had listened to man; he now wanted to listen to God.

In his gaze fixed upon the heavens he beheld his own insignificance. What he felt became words within the calm of his mind. Praise the Lord, O my soul. Praise Him, all you stars of light.

Of a sudden the song of a nightingale came forth from a tree in the garden, joining melody to the words within his mind. Thou art my God—I extol Thee.

In through the window came a gentle breeze of summer night’s air. Upon its warm caress were garden fragrances. The nightingale continued its song. Bless the Lord, all you works of His, in all places of His dominion. Bless the Lord, O my soul, and all that is within me. Bless His holy name.

The king lowered his eyes and closed them as he bowed from deep within. And with a soft voice he began to pray, “Hear my prayer, O Lord, give ear to my supplications…”


In the morning the royal trumpets called all the king’s people into the Great Square. They came together with strife upon their lips. The evening request of yesterday was despised by those who had not made it.

“What will your demands cost us!” they shouted.

“We have our rights!” came the retort.

And to the king who had come upon the balcony these cries did bring great sadness. He paused over the multitude until their strife had settled and one could hear the morning quiet. Then he spoke.

“Through the centuries of our forefathers and into the present, the people of this land have proclaimed a belief in God. Even this request of yesterday evening which this morning has all the kingdom astir, was voiced with an appeal to His love and righteousness, not mine, though you call me Your Majesty. A testimony to your knowledge! And to Him I did go, and to Him alone. I, king of this land, knelt before Him, King of all that is. Through an open window above the Royal Gardens He did speak to me. Through an open window within He did make me understand. When finally I lifted from His presence, I noticed the change of stars high in the sky. I surrendered to sleep with the voice of that, His love and righteousness upon my heart. Listen now, O people of this land, and hear how your God answers this request lifted up before Him.”

“ ‘I,’ saith the Lord, ‘am your Creator, and My design produces life. Is there one who stands amongst you today born apart from it? Which of you is not the offspring of both man and woman? Which of you men can deny the woman’s function in your existence? Which of you women can deny the man’s function in your having come into being? And again, which of you who exchange these functions so that a man lies with a man, and a woman lies with a woman, would even be if your parents had thought as you think? You stand here today with your demand of rights, yet you are here, only because they were not like you! It is I who created the design. It is you who defile its function. Your lust you call love. Your evil you call pleasure. Your rebellion you call freedom. Your denial of My creation law you call belief in a God of love and compassion. You set yourselves up against the absolutes of My creation. For this I declare—unless you choose now to obey, I who am the Creator—rather than yourselves who are but creatures—I shall hand you over to the designs of your own perverted minds. I shall make your world as you demand it be—as you live rather than as I command you live. I shall abandon you to what you call good and just and your right to be. All your world will be like you.’ Thus has spoken the Lord.”

And all those who had made the request lifted their voices with cheer. This they did because it had been said, “All your world will be like you.” And the Lord sealed them in their desire.

The king carried out the word of the Lord. To the Royal Island of Beauty they were to be banished, a place so extremely lush with fruits and flowers that it was said the hands of angels did garden there. A land of such clean air that clothes hung in the breeze became spotless. With springs of water so pure, sick men took drink and then were well. Fish of beauty and taste abounded in its sea. Through its sky, birds of much color formed flying rainbows. The eyes of the king’s people were often upon the Royal Island of Beauty. But it was by private invitation alone that one could cross the sea to its shores—until now.

“If what is called sin pays these wages, along with them I go!” In this way did many sing their choice into the day. And the Lord sealed them in it. As were those they chose to follow, so did he make them. Hand in hand many went who that morning had shared but strife. Male with male, female with female, two by two they went. Few were those who danced not down the street toward the ship of this one-way travel. It was here at the dock, looking down from the lofty bow of this vessel, that he who last evening read from a scroll did so again.

“Be it known to you, O king, that we who sail on this ship today, have found favor in the sight of God. Beyond you He did move, granting us what you would not. Our freedom He gave us. Our rights we now own. Against your many words, our numbers He has multiplied. The future will remember us as blessed.”

The scroll he rolled up and with it he pointed to the Royal Island of Beauty. With a loud voice of victorious tones he cried out—“Let us sail to what God had deemed our just due!”

And away the vessel went, a fiesta upon the waters. Into the distance and voice of the sea faded the great bellows of merriment.


The eyes of the king’s people were still often upon the Royal Island of Beauty. But their gaze was without longing. The seasons had not yet circled the departure of those who had shown themselves unfaithful to the king, but still it seemed the consumption of centuries had ravaged the place to which they had hurried, the land they had proclaimed as a paradise given them by God. From that very dock by which the unfaithful had departed, the people of the kingdom watched what at first they did not understand. Then they remembered the words of the Lord—“All your world will be like you.” The very words for which the unfaithful had cheered.

 

[MasadaCorban]

It was the absence of flowers upon seasonal breezes that first brought notice to the kingdom. Every year at that time fragrances more lovely than any princess wafted through both the king’s palace and the poor man’s home alike. Across the sea from the Royal Island of Beauty they came. But now they came no more. And the people wondered.

From those who put spyglass to eye, a report soon reached the king. Upon every plant, bush and tree, green alone was the color these men could see. No colorful fruits, no beautiful flowers. Strewn across the beaches were poles once used to fish. Now they lay half buried by wind blown sand, a graveyard of other times. The footprints of man no where around. And where they did find them, from that place their eyes did turn. Amidst torn feathers and blood, women whose clothes bore no resemblance to clean, chewed the flesh of those birds of peace whose many colors once formed flying rainbows. All were horrified.

“It is as the Lord declared,” announced the king to his people. “Abandoned to themselves, their evil had reached into the skies. Be it known today, the world to which they hurried with merriment on their lips, is but a place of on-rushing death. He the Creator of paradise is also He the Creator of hell. By their own hands God has done this. And our eyes shall witness His even greater wrath upon them. They indeed shall be it to themselves. It is as the Lord declared.”

The people of the kingdom could with their own eyes see the spread of death devour what was once rightly named the Royal Island of Beauty. But only those who made their report to the king could explain.

It was seen by them how those upon the island had become like swarms of locusts to all that land’s vegetation. The extinction of creatures but for themselves had reduced their diet to leaves. The naked eye of all the kingdom watched as the land once lush and green became but barren and brown.

Time was consumed by days and weeks and months, and the humanness of those upon that island had been consumed by the design of their own minds. The report of them barefoot and naked and scratching through dirt hunting out roots caused the king to cry. But it was that which was next seen through the spyglass for which he trembled. Man had begun eating man. Groups stalked groups and human flesh became food. As animals of the wild in bodies of men and women had they become. Yet still they did live as no beast of the field does—male lay with male and female lay with female. All life for them had died except that for which it was dead—their sin. The king ordered that no more reports reach his ears. But it was by sight and scent that all the kingdom would hear the final news of the unfaithful.

It was the time of year that breezes never blow. Yet blow they did. And upon them came the stench of flesh rotting in death. Across the sea from the Royal Island of Beauty the last of the unfaithful announced another and final departure—without words, without merriment, without a ship. For this parting too, the king and all his people gathered at the dock. Fragrant oils upon black cloths were held to each one’s nose. But the wrath of God could not be sweetened. Every eye within the kingdom gazed above that island into a cloud of gloom. The dark plumage of vultures had amassed across the sky. The last of the unfaithful had died with no one to kill them, but they who before had done the eating, would now be eaten. The king and all his people stood amidst the powerful silence of fear—that conviction out of which does grow one’s knowledge of God.

After a while the king did speak—“It is as the Lord declared.”


Across the sea from the Royal Island of Beauty seasonal breezes still blow. Much time has passed since flowers were upon them. Of such days young children have no memory. They think it strange when their elders gather at the dock and stare so solemnly at the barren land where no one could ever live. The name by which their elders call it seems a mistake. But oddest of all to these children is when their elders inhale deeply of those seasonal breezes and declare – “The loveliest of fragrances” –when there is no fragrance at all. The children understand not the fragrance of peace with God.

END

 

[bsd13]

I joined this site with the below story written by me for my gay brother to contemplate, as an intro. I was immediately reported by several members of the Flower Brigade, and within a week it was removed. Not a word from anyone regarding the story itself. I later posted it under the so-called writer's section. Not a word. So much for the original lament of this thread which complained of all Christians wanting to jump on the anti-gay wagon, though this is anti-gay only in that it does not condone homosexuality and addresses the inarguable outcome if all creation became homosexual, establishing it can in no way simply be an alternative to God's original purpose of sex between a man and a woman. If this is not a proper thread to post it as a Christian theological statement, well, I guess I'll have to stick with the secular sites.

Awesome read. Thanks for sharing. I personally think it should have a thread of it's own, but either way glad to have had a chance to read it.

Of course I'm a Christian so it made sense to me to the gays and the appeasers it probably won't be anything but skilled writing.

 

[MasadaCorban]

Awesome read. Thanks for sharing. I personally think it should have a thread of it's own, but either way glad to have had a chance to read it.

Of course I'm a Christian so it made sense to me to the gays and the appeasers it probably won't be anything but skilled writing.

Well, bsd13, you're the first on this "Christian" site to actually make a comment. On the secular writing site it was indeed called possibly the best piece posted, and this even though reaction to the msg fell between agreeable, questionable to comparison to Nazi hate propaganda. I for one think the king demonstrates wisdom and respect.

I thought the previous two times I posted it I had created new threads. Perhaps I should as you suggest start a new one, related to the Creation act of God, under Christian philosophy or apologetics. Certainly no interest in writing on this site. Writing is but the vehicle anyway, my main interest is theological.

Thanks for your comment.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

When are Christians going to realize that NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE is there any such zeal aimed at a specific sin as that (the perceived sin of same-sex sex) which MANY CHRISTIANS claim to be 'the sin of sins'? It's true! While there may be scriptures that apply a negative view of same-sex sex it is NEVER singled out as being any 'worse' than the myriad of 'other sins' that the Bible speaks of. In fact, if there IS a greater sin than any other it is the sin of pride. If there IS a greater sin than any other it would involve certain HETEROSEXUAL practices that, by comparison, Christians ignore.

You seem to know very little of what Christians do. Divorce and adultery are just as decried as homosexuality. It's just that adulterers and the divorced do not sue Christians and attack them for believing that adultery and divorce are wrong. The adulterous litter the Church and do not demand to have their sins excused away. BIG difference bewteen homosexuality and those that engage in it, and other sins and sinners. Christians will never be led by homosexuals. Well, for long anyway.

When are Christians going to realize that the repetetive quoting of selective scriptures presented in a self-righteous manner or otherwise are NOT going to make a 'gay' person 'straight'?

When are homosexuals going to be respectuful of people that have repented? Why not go away and find other places to celebrate gay and lesbian sex? There are many pagan religions already that "openly" celebrate gay sex with "pride."

When are they going to realize that by doing so they are, inadvertantly or not, telling a 'gay' person that they are not only unworthy human beings in their 'present state' but they are also 'demon possessed'?

Take up the issue with the Apostles. They wrote the New Testament. And, it appears, literally about today's world "too." When are homosexuals going to respect Christians?

When are they going to realize that people become very defensive when they are continually told that they are basically 'scum'?

Opposing homosexuality is not an accusation of scumness. It is just agreeing to live a Christian life as best you can. Why is it that gays and their supporters (which number many atheists and openly pagan people) are so intolerant of Christians that desire to be free from homosexuality?

To the 'straight' Christian ...how would you feel if you were continually bomarded with scriptures - and there are probably MANY - that negatively 'describe' you?

We are are and they do. Christians repent BECAUSE OF the scriptures that condemn their sinful behavior. Ummm, that is why the thing was written. "Good News" means there is a way out of sin and sinning. And that does not include celebrating them. The exact opposite is fact.

You would, of course, need to take ownership of these scriptures which, I feel, many of you would be reluctant to do.

You obviously do not know even one Christian. Evewry Christian accepts the depravity of their sin condition. Umm, have you ever read the New Testament?????

Christianity doesn't seem to work that way. Religion often results in a self-righteous and condemning attitude.

HELLO?????? That is a major sin, A greater sin than just sinning. "It's in the Bible." Read the Gospels. They're all about condemning "self" righteousness.

Jesus spoke about this and likewise CONDEMNED it.

Oh, I apologize. You have read parts of the New Testamant. Then, you should know that homosexuality is not appropriate for Christians. "Too." You should know that if you've far enough.

Christians/people in general seem to be all too ready to apply labels to others but what about their OWN particular label? It might be 'hypocrite' (Jesus had MUCH to say about you if you take ownership of this particular 'sin') or it may be 'sanctimomious' (ditto) or it may be something else specific and personal to you.

"Gay" is a word self-applied by homosexuals. And "Lesbian" makes no sense at all outside paganism. Christians just stick to reality. It's a Christian thing to do.

While I realize that this IS a subforum devoted to the issue of homosexuality, why IS there more Christian zeal behind the condemnation of homosexuality than ANY OTHER 'perceived sin'?

There is nothing "perceived" about homosexuality being a sin. What makes "it" such a major sin is that homosexuals are demanding that "Christians" acceot it and them as non-sinners and actually great sinless sages of moral and social perfection.

Why can't homosexuals respect Christians? Adulterers do. The divorced do. I have never seen one adulterer or divorcee take "pride" in the sinful behavior. yet, that is EXACTLY what you see with homosexuals male or female. LITERALLY. That is antithetical to Christian truth as presented by the Apostles. Converts to Christian life follow the teachings of the Apostles.

If such a subforum existed on Divorce and Remarriage, for instance (an issue spoken and disapproved of by Jesus Himself), I really can't imagine it going the distance. There is certainly something MORE SPECIAL about homosexuality than ANY OTHER issue.

Why?

Homosexuals are unrepentant and haughty about their sins and sinning. Definately reasons to oppose their activities.