What's wrong with racism?

[DogmaHunter]

my point is, the racist would look at the white woman and say she's superior and white, the genecist would look at her and say, she's more african then white, racism isn't about genetics, it's how someone looks is my point. Just as that white supremecist that found out he had alot of african genes. Racism is 90% about superficial things on the surface and try to then project that into meaning something more.

The problem is race is mostly superficial, it's looks and such things like intelligence and such have far bigger factors such as nutrition and such then genetics.

The white supremacist, upon finding that out, would look at the woman as if she is an abomination because they feel like "mixing races" is a bad thing.

So yes, at first he'll be fine with here, thinking she is a "pure white person".
Then upon realising that she is actually a "mixed race woman" that just happens to look like she's "pure white", he will change his mind about her.

Because race is a biological thing. It always circles back to it.

I remember a documentary on the genographic project.
A couple of white neo-nazi's participated. They found out that there great, great, great grandparents... were jews. At first they were shocked. Then they were disgusted. Then they were ashamed. And today, they are no longer racists and have become anti-racists activists.

Because they to, understand that race and ethnicity, is about the underlying biology.

 

[RDKirk]

The white supremacist, upon finding that out, would look at the woman as if she is an abomination because they feel like "mixing races" is a bad thing.

So yes, at first he'll be fine with here, thinking she is a "pure white person".
Then upon realising that she is actually a "mixed race woman" that just happens to look like she's "pure white", he will change his mind about her.

Because race is a biological thing. It always circles back to it.

I think you just disproved your own argument.

When the bigot changed his mind about the woman, that had nothing to do with biology because her biology never changed. She was the same woman she always was, as smart, as pretty, as elegant.

The only thing that changed was the bigot's mind. In his mind she changed from white to black.

That's not biology.

 

[DogmaHunter]

When the bigot changed his mind about the woman, that had nothing to do with biology because her biology never changed.

Her biology didn't change, no.
But the bigot had the wrong idea concerning her biology.

The point is that it is the genetic facts that made him change his mind.
Because it's all in the genes....

The only thing that changed was the bigot's mind.

...as a result of finding out the truth about the underlying genetics...

In his mind she changed from white to black.

Not really... He just learned that she is a mixed-race woman.
Clearly the woman looks white. The bigot might be an idiot, but I'm guessing he'll know the difference between white and black.

That's not biology.

What changed his mind, were the biological facts of the woman's underlying genetics.

 

[RDKirk]

Her biology didn't change, no.
But the bigot had the wrong idea concerning her biology.

The point is that it is the genetic facts that made him change his mind.
Because it's all in the genes.....

No, his mind was not changed by the genetic facts because the genetic facts did not change.

The bigot had the wrong idea about her biology, but his error says nothing about her biology.

If a man thinks the moon is made of green cheese, his error says nothing about the actual composition of the moon.

 

[DogmaHunter]

No, his mind was not changed by the genetic facts because the genetic facts did not change.

But he wasn't aware of the facts. And then he learned them. And then he changed his mind.
So his hatred for a race equals his hatred for a set of genes.

The bigot had the wrong idea about her biology, but his error says nothing about her biology.

But it does say something about the nature of his hatred.
And his hatred is clearly based on specific biological underpinnings.
Why else would he start hating a person he previously didn't hate, after learning about her actual biological underpinnings?

If anything, it illustrates how irrational racism is.
The guy was mistaken about her racial background. The woman is indeed the exact same both before as well as after the bigot learned about her actual racial background.

So yes, race is dependend on the biological underpinnings.
An albino negro, is still a negro eventhough he looks even whiter then your average white caucasian.. (I'm not sure what the correct english term is from "the black race", so sorry if that negro term is "politically incorrect", I have no idea)

If a man thinks the moon is made of green cheese, his error says nothing about the actual composition of the moon.

I don't see how that is a proper analogy.

 

[RDKirk]

So yes, race is dependend on the biological underpinnings.
An albino negro, is still a negro eventhough he looks even whiter then your average white caucasian.. (I'm not sure what the correct english term is from "the black race", so sorry if that negro term is "politically incorrect", I have no idea)

Yeah, "negro" is not politically correct anymore, but "albino negro" jars the intellect less than "albino black person." I know what you meant to say.

I don't see how that is a proper analogy.

It's the proper analogy because what the bigot thinks he knows about racial biology is wrong, so his error has nothing to do with her actual biology--because he's in error about it.

 

[JGG]

Racism is an ISM - and, is it not good (like sexism, imperialism, etc.) because it is based on a false sense of superiority, and uses this false superiority to exploit and subjugate other people that are categorized as "lesser". There is no god contributing to racism, as it were. No human in this state is superior to another.

Sure they are. God has a chosen race, that He prefers to all others. Racism is Godly.

If you are a race of people who were born from the Most High God, it is consequential that those entities would be superior to others in their same kind. This shouldn't be hard to see.

Well...duh.

What the Israelites did was not racism; the Canaanites especially were murderous rapists who delighted in smashing babies for sacrifices and teaching the Hebrews similar abominations. They also had genetic pollution - even down to the animals. It wasn't like God said one day, "I needa kill up a buncha Canaanites!"

"What the caucasians did was not racism; the Africans especially are murderous rapists who delighted in smashing babies for sacrifices and teaching the whites similar abominations."

We agree this is not racist then?

They had been terrorizing His people for a while - unrestricted in their murder and corruption of Hebrew women, men and children. If you can, you kill cancer before it becomes inoperable. When that does happen ("inoperability,") you get the parable of the wheat and tares - where it is profitable to let evil grow to fruition, then slay.

Spoken like a true white supremacist.

So, what's wrong with racism?

The "genocide" in the bible is actually very complex and layered, and the canon may not do it justice (although there is enough info to gauge what was going on, and why it was justified.)

One race thought they were superior to another. Their God agrees. The other inferior races need to be destroyed. What more justification is necessary?

So, what's wrong with racism?

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Sure they are. God has a chosen race, that He prefers to all others. Racism is Godly.



Well...duh.



"What the caucasians did was not racism; the Africans especially are murderous rapists who delighted in smashing babies for sacrifices and teaching the whites similar abominations."

We agree this is not racist then?



Spoken like a true white supremacist.

So, what's wrong with racism?



One race thought they were superior to another. Their God agrees. The other inferior races need to be destroyed. What more justification is necessary?

So, what's wrong with racism?

You don' get it.

If you are factually superior, it isn't racism. If you are using false superiority as a means to subjugate people who are equal to you, then that is RACISM.

What humans do is racism, because humans are daft enough to believe in this state any of us are superior to the other.

Racism is false. If you are superior, you don't have to prove it through legislation, subjugation and other nefarious means.



As for God's orders: you seem to miss why He was justified. Read what the Canaanites did the the Hebrews, then imagine that being done to your children... over decades.

You are trying to be controversial when there is no controversy. And, you definitely have used your last chance to twist what I said. I said exactly what I meant.

 

[JGG]

You don' get it.

If you are factually superior, it isn't racism. If you are using false superiority as a means to subjugate people who are equal to you, then that is RACISM.

If I think I'm superior to you because my race is superior, and you believe we are equal, what do you call it?

But that's not even what I'm talking about. All I'm asking is why it's wrong to attribute things like intelligence, character, behavior, etc, to someone's race? Keep in mind that you're about to explain how God does just that.

What humans do is racism, because humans are daft enough to believe in this state any of us are superior to the other.

Racism is false. If you are superior, you don't have to prove it through legislation, subjugation and other nefarious means.

Does racism necessarily mean superior?

As for God's orders: you seem to miss why He was justified. Read what the Canaanites did the the Hebrews, then imagine that being done to your children... over decades.

So what you're saying, if I'm not mistaking you, is that all Canaanites were of deficient character that they did horrible things to the Hebrews. They were murderers and rapists and none were good. They deserved to be exterminated outright.

So, why is it wrong for me to say that all people of race x are deficient of character, or inteligence, humility, etc. Why would it be wrong to say that all members of race y are murderers, thieves and rapists?

You are trying to be controversial when there is no controversy.

I would say that the existence of racism, particularly racism justified in exactly the manner I'm using, suggests that there is controversy.

If you're uncomfortable with controversy, maybe discussion forums are not the place for you.

And, you definitely have used your last chance to twist what I said. I said exactly what I meant.

I'm really not. You're telling me that you can generalize behavior, character and belief across an entire race like the Canaanites or the Hittites to justify genocide. So why would it be wrong for me to generalize the behavior, character and belief of race x? How is racism wrong, when you yourself are justifying it? Why were the Nazis wrong for trying to exterminate the Jews? Why were the Hutu wrong for trying to exterminate the Tutsi?

If God tells us that behavior, character, belief, etc, are all attributable to race, how can it be wrong to be racist?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

If I think I'm superior to you because my race is superior, and you believe we are equal, what do you call it?

But that's not even what I'm talking about. All I'm asking is why it's wrong to attribute things like intelligence, character, behavior, etc, to someone's race? Keep in mind that you're about to explain how God does just that.



Does racism necessarily mean superior?



So what you're saying, if I'm not mistaking you, is that all Canaanites were of deficient character that they did horrible things to the Hebrews. They were murderers and rapists and none were good. They deserved to be exterminated outright.

So, why is it wrong for me to say that all people of race x are deficient of character, or inteligence, humility, etc. Why would it be wrong to say that all members of race y are murderers, thieves and rapists?



I would say that the existence of racism, particularly racism justified in exactly the manner I'm using, suggests that there is controversy.

If you're uncomfortable with controversy, maybe discussion forums are not the place for you.



I'm really not. You're telling me that you can generalize behavior, character and belief across an entire race like the Canaanites or the Hittites to justify genocide. So why would it be wrong for me to generalize the behavior, character and belief of race x? How is racism wrong, when you yourself are justifying it? Why were the Nazis wrong for trying to exterminate the Jews? Why were the Hutu wrong for trying to exterminate the Tutsi?

If God tells us that behavior, character, belief, etc, are all attributable to race, how can it be wrong to be racist?

This is all baloney, and you've basically overextending your bloated and distended arguments here, JGG!

Am I saying you're wrong in most, if not all, of your conclusions here? Why, yes I am.

In brass tacks, the seven Canaanite peoples were displaced because of the development of moral degeneracy within their respective cultures, not because they were Semitic Peoples. (What? Did I say the Canaanites were Semitic peoples? Weren't the Israelites also a Semitic people? How strange ...)

I would suggest that the next time you want to try to take us Christians to task, you think twice before talking out your back-end about something you've obviously only thought about by sitting in a dark corner all by yourself, JGG.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

If I think I'm superior to you because my race is superior, and you believe we are equal, what do you call it?

But that's not even what I'm talking about. All I'm asking is why it's wrong to attribute things like intelligence, character, behavior, etc, to someone's race? Keep in mind that you're about to explain how God does just that.



Does racism necessarily mean superior?



So what you're saying, if I'm not mistaking you, is that all Canaanites were of deficient character that they did horrible things to the Hebrews. They were murderers and rapists and none were good. They deserved to be exterminated outright.

So, why is it wrong for me to say that all people of race x are deficient of character, or inteligence, humility, etc. Why would it be wrong to say that all members of race y are murderers, thieves and rapists?



I would say that the existence of racism, particularly racism justified in exactly the manner I'm using, suggests that there is controversy.

If you're uncomfortable with controversy, maybe discussion forums are not the place for you.



I'm really not. You're telling me that you can generalize behavior, character and belief across an entire race like the Canaanites or the Hittites to justify genocide. So why would it be wrong for me to generalize the behavior, character and belief of race x? How is racism wrong, when you yourself are justifying it? Why were the Nazis wrong for trying to exterminate the Jews? Why were the Hutu wrong for trying to exterminate the Tutsi?

If God tells us that behavior, character, belief, etc, are all attributable to race, how can it be wrong to be racist?

If you do not believe in the Most High God, and you are human, then you are psychologically infirmed if you believe your meat sack is somehow more superior to any other meat sack on this planet. It is pure insanity. Prejudice, racism and bigotry are psychological disorders, because they come from ignorant foundations (choosing to ignore that a decaying meat sack is not superior to other decaying meat sacks with no significant difference in physiology and/or transport phenomena.)


However, if you are arguing from a theological point of view, the Most High God would be superior in their class, which would make them superior by providence. That is not racism; it is providence. If you feel some type of way with those people's designation, then you would have to take it up with The Most High God, not the people who would be inherently and providentially superior in their class.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

@JGG However, you also miss that there has been no superior human since Adam fell. The Hebrews are God's people, but do you understand how many times God Himself has said that their bloodline doesn't make them special? There are no more superior humans, except Christ - He is no longer a meat sack, in fact He is alive. If you don't believe that, what possible rubric do you have to believe your decaying body and decomposing brain has any more superiority over any one else? The answer should be NONE. Yet, you seem to think opining on what one thinks superiority is is enough to substantiate one's supremacy within one's class. Of course, that is exactly how bigots work: they believe their opinion is enough to substantiate real supremacy among their own.

Racist take it a step further and work to subjugate and oppress people in order to substantiate their prejudices and bigotry.

If the Hebrews, or Jews believe they are superior to anyone now, then they still don't understand what God has been saying since He reproved Adam in the garden. All racism is foolish, and laughable, because it shows the complexity of psychological sickness can tangibly permeate every aspect of life - even and especially subjugating and oppressing other humans with no real physiological or cognitive differences.

 

[JGG]

In brass tacks, the seven Canaanite peoples were displaced because of the development of moral degeneracy within their respective cultures, not because they were Semitic Peoples. (What? Did I say the Canaanites were Semitic peoples? Weren't the Israelites also a Semitic people? How strange ...)

Is it fair to infer that race x (in this case Canaanites) are all all moral degenerates?

Can I not make a similar statement about any race y?

 

[JGG]

If you do not believe in the Most High God, and you are human, then you are psychologically infirmed if you believe your meat sack is somehow more superior to any other meat sack on this planet. It is pure insanity. Prejudice, racism and bigotry are psychological disorders, because they come from ignorant foundations (choosing to ignore that a decaying meat sack is not superior to other decaying meat sacks with no significant difference in physiology and/or transport phenomena.)


However, if you are arguing from a theological point of view, the Most High God would be superior in their class, which would make them superior by providence. That is not racism; it is providence. If you feel some type of way with those people's designation, then you would have to take it up with The Most High God, not the people who would be inherently and providentially superior in their class.

I suspect you're still missing my point. Pretend that I am not here, and merely my statement is. It's not about me. The Bible says we can can infer a person's attributes based on their race. My example is how Canaanites are all moral degenerates.

Now explain to me how we are not to infer attributes to a person based on their race.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Is it fair to infer that race x (in this case Canaanites) are all all moral degenerates?

I didn't say they were all moral degenerates, but I'm not going to allow you to try to take an argument into that direction. I'm also not going to allow you to 'slide in' modern (and questionable) axioms typical of humanistic thinking (usually under the guise of "D..e..m..o..c..r..a..c..y!").

The Bible makes it clear that the Canaanites weren't just the neighbors 'next door' in a common American suburb; the Canaanites were degenerates, and the supposed norms and cultural ideas by which they lived were often handed down, without thinking twice, to their children who then grew up and repeated the same sets of mind.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

I suspect you're still missing my point. Pretend that I am not here, and merely my statement is. It's not about me. The Bible says we can can infer a person's attributes based on their race. My example is how Canaanites are all moral degenerates.

Now explain to me how we are not to infer attributes to a person based on their race.

I hope you find what you are looking for.

 

[JGG]

@JGG However, you also miss that there has been no superior human since Adam fell. The Hebrews are God's people, but do you understand how many times God Himself has said that their bloodline doesn't make them special? There are no more superior humans, except Christ - He is no longer a meat sack, in fact He is alive. If you don't believe that, what possible rubric do you have to believe your decaying body and decomposing brain has any more superiority over any one else? The answer should be NONE. Yet, you seem to think opining on what one thinks superiority is is enough to substantiate one's supremacy within one's class. Of course, that is exactly how bigots work: they believe their opinion is enough to substantiate real supremacy among their own.

Racist take it a step further and work to subjugate and oppress people in order to substantiate their prejudices and bigotry.

If the Hebrews, or Jews believe they are superior to anyone now, then they still don't understand what God has been saying since He reproved Adam in the garden. All racism is foolish, and laughable, because it shows the complexity of psychological sickness can tangibly permeate every aspect of life - even and especially subjugating and oppressing other humans with no real physiological or cognitive differences.

Ignore the word 'superior'. I'm not even there. Can I infer somone's attributes based on their race? Based on the Canaanites, the Bible says I can.

 

[Motherofkittens]

Why is racism bad? Different people are different (duh). Is it wrong to point that out?

Of course people are unique, everyone of us to certain degrees. There is no problem pointing that out. Some people can walk, some can't, or are in between, some people have brown eyes, some have green, some have hazel, we have different amounts of pigmentation, we are different heights, each one of us has different amounts of hormones, etc. Some people have more privilege in some or a lot of areas than others so that will make life easier for them than those that do not have those privileges, i.e., they are disadvantaged in some or a lot of areas. I think we must talk of our difference. For that is reality.

The problem, what is unethical is the prejudging, inaccurate generalizations and prohibiting, actively or inactivity the equally of opportunity and equality of rights , etc based on our differences.

"Race" is a social construct. It is very real in society, unfortunately, but not in our genetics. However you generalize by it will always be wrong. Culture and sub-cultures do not have to have anything to do with people's "race". Interestingly while we always have had other prejudices, racism seems to be a more recent bias in terms of history.

Why do you think racism isn't wrong?

 

[JGG]

I didn't say they were all moral degenerates...

How many Canaanites did God say should be allowed to live?

 

[JGG]

Of course people are unique, everyone of us to certain degrees. There is no problem pointing that out. Some people can walk, some can't, or are in between, some people have brown eyes, some have green, some have hazel, we have different amounts of pigmentation, we are different heights, each one of us has different amounts of hormones, etc. Some people have more privilege in some or a lot of areas than others so that will make life easier for them than those that do not have those privileges, i.e., they are disadvantaged in some or a lot of areas. I think we must talk of our difference. For that is reality.

The problem, what is unethical is the prejudging, inaccurate generalizations and prohibiting, actively or inactivity the equally of opportunity and equality of rights , etc based on our differences.

"Race" is a social construct. It is very real in society, unfortunately, but not in our genetics. However you generalize by it will always be wrong. Culture and sub-cultures do not have to have anything to do with people's "race". Interestingly while we always have had other prejudices, racism seems to be a more recent bias in terms of history.

Why do you think racism isn't wrong?

I didn't say I think racism isn't wrong. I'm hoping we can come up with a reasoned moral argument for why it is.