What's Wrong with Modern Christian Music?

I can't even tell what you guys are talking about anymore.

MariaJLM said:

The lyrics aren't about partying/substance abuse and fornication.

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I have listened to a LOT of modern worship music from Bethel, Elevation, Paul Baloche, Chris Tomlin, Matt Maher, Matt Redman... basicaly what's used in Church these days and I have YET to see ANY of what you are talking about. How about some examples?

Aldebaran said:

Psalm 1 is scripture, and the rest of Psalms is scripture. Christian music doesn't fit that description.

I don't know. I've never been in any of those places. Where I'm from, verses are taken from the bible, whether from Psalms or other parts of the bible, and set to music with different verses places here and there, along with other narratives.

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Psalms is a book of songs. Greek psalmoi means "instrumental music".

WolfGate said:

Psalms is a book of songs. Greek psalmoi means "instrumental music".

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Psalm 45 and Psalm 69 appear to have been set to what must have been a then-popular melody, "Lillies."

Vertical, Elevation, Bethel, Hillsong and its permutations, Passion, Upperroom... I like them all because they've got energy and they pull in new believers, which is supposed to be our primary job. (Fishers of men, etc.) Those artists are what I practice to exclusively at home. And loud!

However, a few of those bands' songs do have some serious biblical untruths in them. This tells me that there are some significant "scripture vetting" issues within those artists' song-creating processes. Kinda scary when you think about it, with those churches' budgets.

So, I still play those artists' songs almost exclusively, but if one of their songs that departs from biblical truth comes up on rotation, I'll count myself out and the church can find another bass player for the day. What I won't do is throw an entire worship band (or an entire genre) into the toilet because 5-10% of its catalog is defective. We can pick and choose, and leave the rest.

The stuff on Christian radio is typically pop-influenced. In my seven years of playing in worship bands, I've played at most a half dozen, and typically as openers. Examples: Hillsong Young & Free's "Alive" and "Wake." Worship music is a whole 'nother discipline, at least in most cases.

Matisyahu8898 said:

I hear it too often these days, but no one has taken their time to respond with a legit argument. Why is modern Christian music so bad? Of course there are plenty of bad songs that misrepresent the gospel, and Jesus, and Christianity as a whole, but don't throw out the baby with the bath water! One of the things I hear the most is that it's all too repetitive. But it's certainly less repetitive than most secular pop music today. And that doesn't apply to all songs. It's not even a very common trait.

To be clear, I really don't like Christian radio. At least the radio station where I live (Joy FM 99.1 in St. Louis, MO). It basically plays nothing but tobymac and Mandisa with only a few songs worth your time. I feel like I could rant for awhile on why the radio stations are bad, so I think I'll post another thread about that.

But I'm talking about all Christian songs written in the past 100 years. If you only sing out of a hymn book, there's nothing wrong with that in itself, but you're seriously missing out! Can someone please explain to me why it's so bad? And please give examples.

Here are some excerpts from some of my favorite songs. These lyrics are God glorifying, and accurately represent the Gospel:

Glorious Day by Passion "I needed rescue, my sin was heavy / But chains break at the weight of Your glory"

God of Calvary by Chris Tomlin "By His wounds I am set free / By His blood I've been redeemed"

My Victory by Crowder "Oh a cross meant to kill is my victory"

Great Are You, Lord by All Sons & Daughters "It's Your breath in our lungs / So we pour out our praise to You only"

God, You're So Good by Passion "I am saved in Jesus's name"

Christ Is Risen by Phil Wickham "And all throughout eternity our song will be the same / "Hallelujah Christ is risen from the grave" "

And I could go on. Even Reckless Love has had some scrutiny, but the only lyric that people don't like is describing God's love as reckless, which by any definition just isn't true. But it's still true that God's love seems reckless from our point of view. I mean it's quite incredible that Jesus would actually suffer to the point of death for us. That seems so reckless!

Anyways, if you could provide some insight on why only ancient hymns should be sung in church or elsewhere, I'd appreciate it.

Matt

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I like your picks. I'm a big Crowder fan, and I'm from the generation that grew up on only old hymns.

WolfGate said:

Psalms is a book of songs. Greek psalmoi means "instrumental music".

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Do you have a reference to support this? If the word psalmoi (ψαλμοι) being the plural of the word psalmos (ψαλμος) means instrumental music, then how do we translate Luke 20:42? Traditionally it is just translated:

David himself declares in the Book of Psalms: “ ‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand

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Would you instead translate it as:

David himself declares in the Book of Instrumental Music: “ ‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand

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I am not sure if this actually works does it? The BDAG greek dictionary of the New Testament (the one scholars use) suggests that it Psalmoi would mean "Songs of praise".

renniks said:

I like your picks. I'm a big Crowder fan, and I'm from the generation that grew up on only old hymns.

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Me too. I just wish his management would quit trying to shove him into genres (and high vocal ranges) that aren't part of his DNA. IMO he's at his best when he's doing things like this:

I like both hymns and modern christian music.
Currently learning the keyboard now.
Will like to play some christian music, whether hymn or modern.

I don't like the old style of Christian music mainly because its harder to sing as a group. Individually its easier, but together? I prefer what they call Christian Contemporary Music or CCM.

Matisyahu8898 said:

First off, I LOVE It Is Well With My Soul!! That's one of my favorite songs, and the words are amazing! But I get what you're saying about them being written in a different spirit, but I'd say it's the minority that are like that. At least for the songs I listen to. I'll quote Glorious Day by Passion again, because I think it's a great example:

"I was breathing but not alive
All my failures I tried to hide
It was my tomb 'til I met You
You called my name and I ran out of that grave
Out of the darkness into Your glorious day"...
"The old made new
Jesus, when I met You"

Notice how the words speak of presently living in righteousness with God. The past was awful, but now Jesus has made things new.


More examples include:

I am redeemed, You set me free
So I'll shake off these heavy chains
Wipe away every stain, now I'm not who I used to be
I am redeemed
Redeemed by Big Daddy Weave

This is amazing grace
This is unfailing love
That You would take my place
That You would bear my cross
You laid down Your life
That I would be set free
Jesus, I sing for
All that You've done for me
This is Amazing Grace by Phil Wickham

And if our God if for us
Then who could ever stop us?
And if our God is with us
Then what could stand against?
Our God by Chris Tomlin

My heart beating, my soul breathing
I found my life when I laid it down
Upward falling, spirit soaring
I touch the sky when my knees hit the ground
Touch The Sky by Hillsong UNITED

Chains fall, fear bow, here, now
Jesus, you change everything
Lives healed, hope found, here, now
Jesus, you change everything
Holy Ground by Passion

These songs talk about the present glory revealed through Jesus, and that we are currently in light of what He has done for us.

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I love all these songs.

Is that any worse than 86 verses, in archaic language using outdated words and without even the mercy of a chorus to break up the monotony?
Just saying

Slothman said:

Is that any worse than 86 verses, in archaic language using outdated words and without even the mercy of a chorus to break up the monotony?
Just saying

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Offensive description aside, yes. Demonstrably so. The Psalms are timeless, and the practice of praying them every day goes back to the early centuries of Christianity. The same cannot be said of some catchy melody written by some guy in an effort to Christianize pop music. To quote the great philosopher of our time, Hank Hill, can't you see you're not making Christianity better -- you're only making rock'n'roll worse?

Matisyahu8898 said:

There's nothing wrong with liking that music. I'm just wondering what people have against the new stuff. Is there any reason you don't listen to new music? Or do you like it okay?

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It doesn't seem like church music, for one thing. The ones in the hymnal (not every last one of them, it's true; and it matters which hymnal, of course) are soul-stirring IMO. And they say a lot.

Most of what I think passes for contemporary Christian music seems to me like elevator music, and the messages or themes are so rudimentary that it's almost embarrassing. I'm not a devotee of Gregorian Chant or music that's similar, which doesn't mean I hate it either, but there are some wonderful hymns that were written in the past several hundred years that deserve better than to be pushed aside in favor of some of the songs I have heard lately.

To the above poster,
I disagree that CCM is elevator music. Ever heard jazz? That's elevator music to me....

Slothman said:

Is that any worse than 86 verses, in archaic language using outdated words and without even the mercy of a chorus to break up the monotony?
Just saying

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Well, yes, actually it is. Thank you for asking.

Firstly I mean no personal attack below to my siblings in Christ but I am strongly disagreeing with their opinions and manner of their delivery i.e. 'I say so therefore it is so'.

dzheremi said:

Accurate description aside, yes. Demonstrably so. The Psalms are timeless, and the practice of praying them every day goes back to the early centuries of Christianity. The same cannot be said of some catchy melody written by some guy in an effort to Christianize pop music. To quote the great philosopher of our time, Hank Hill, can't you see you're not making Christianity better -- you're only making rock'n'roll worse?

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I've fixed the above for you. You are obviously easily offended?
Firstly, I agree that the Psalms are timeless, as is all of the word of God, however that doesn't mean that all we can do with music is to repeat them to a centuries old tune and refuse to entertain (sorry dirty word) anything new or different. Why are some of you people so determined to remain in the early centuries of Christianity yet complain when churches fail and young people are conspicuous by their absence? It's that stubborn clinging to the past, values that represents why a lot of people do not come to or stay in church. It puts people off, not because of the message or the word of God but because of the fusty, dusty, outdated, archaic approach to worship that sends out the message that Christianity is boring and restricting rather than the exciting and freeing experience that God intended.
What's wrong with adding some spice providing the dish itself remains nutritional? We don't all like the same thing.
I also love some of the old hymns and they can be very powerful but there are also some right stinkers that are painful and challenging to get through.
Secondly what is wrong with using modern music be it pop/rock or whatever to reach a different age group or type of person? Should they all be forced to like what you like then or deemed foolish or insincere in their faith if they don't?
You can sit back, fold your arms and make a visual statement of your disapproval but the fact remains that boring churches are empty churches.
I know there are some shallow and crass modern songs out there just as there are some rubbish hymns also but we are perfectly capable of choosing which ones we sing in church aren't we? Sentimental attachment to the past values is pointless, remember that same past involved persecution to death, slavery and small children working in mills or being sent up chimneys, not to mention the US being a British colony so I suspect you are not unhappy with progress altogether!
One day people will wax lyrical about the good old days when the classics such as HillSong, Rend Collective or Michael W Smith were sung in our churches....'them were the days'. It's all relative but I agree about poor lyrics although I'd argue that can be the case with any age or style of musical worship.
Lastly, Hank Hill is fictional.

seeking.IAM said:

Well, yes, actually I think it is. Thank you for asking.

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I also fixed the above for you.
You saying it does not make it the case my friend, just an opinion and I refer you to my above comments.....