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What's wrong with evolution?

AV1611VET

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like YECism, the rapture and tribulation are the providence of just a fraction of the greater Christian community. Once again the inability of some people to separate their own interpretation of the Scriptures from the text itself and seemingly to believe that all Christians believe that the text teaches their specific group's interpretation.

There are 7 dispensations [of time] --- each one ending in judgement:
  • Innocence --- expulsion from the Garden of Eden
  • Conscience --- the Flood
  • Human Government --- the Tower of Babel
  • Promise --- the Egyptian Captivity
  • Law --- the Crucifixion
  • Grace --- the Tribulation
  • Kingdom --- the Great White Throne Judgement
 
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AV1611VET

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Revelation doesnt specifically mention the rapture, does it?

No --- it's implied in the fact that the Church, which is predominant throughout the first three chapters, is not once mentioned in Chapters 6-19, which is the Tribulation proper.

Notice how Chapter 4 starts ---

[bible]Revelation 4:1[/bible]

Some take the "come up hither" as the "shout" mentioned in 1 Thessalonians.

[bible]1 Thessalonians 4:16[/bible]
 
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rmwilliamsll

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There are 7 dispensations [of time] --- each one ending in judgement:
  • Innocence --- expulsion from the Garden of Eden
  • Conscience --- the Flood
  • Human Government --- the Tower of Babel
  • Promise --- the Egyptian Captivity
  • Law --- the Crucifixion
  • Grace --- the Tribulation
  • Kingdom --- the Great White Throne Judgement

it bears repeating.

what you write is:

in the system of your particular community.
in your interpretation of the Scriptures.
as far as your meaning of the Bible goes.
the the words of your specific interpretive group.
in your church or denomination.
in your own mind.

your interpretation is not:
the text itself.
the universal or uniform interpretation of the visible church either now or through history.
equivalent to God's interpretation.
binding on anyone else who calls themselves Christian.

it is simply the expression of a group of similiar believing people as to how the Bible ought to be interpreted, one member of which seems constitutionally unable to understand that interpretation is not the text itself, that one's particular community is not coterminous with all Christians. That extracting meaning from a text is a function of being human, is done within the boundaries of a specific interpretive community, and is subject to competing interpretations by other groups.

as for my interpretive community, what is quoted above is simply nonsense. There is a single covenant with Christ which is reflected in a series of covenantal renewals such as with Adam, with Noah, with Abram, with Moses.

but the big point remains.
interpretation=/=the text itself.
 
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AV1611VET

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Or can you not see that happening a decribed?

Yes --- I've heard of the tigrons and ligers --- but these animals are, I believe from the same "kind" as mentioned in Genesis 1.

I don't believe that nature is "smart" enough to genetically correct what it is that's not allowing these animals to become a new genera.

IOW, that'll never happen.
 
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rmwilliamsll

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That is correct, but let me reiterate, I am not a YEC.

You believe that the earth was created 6000 years ago by God, and that evolution didn't happen. That makes you a YEC by my definition.

i had replied with:
if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, treating it as a duck is a logical and wise thing to do.

and decided not to post it then.
but you said it much better. thanks.
 
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AV1611VET

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minor point... wolves are Canis Lupus, with a number of SUBspecies (thats a third name in the binomial nomenclature, e.g. the Timber Wolf, is Canis lupus lycaon) Canis Latrans is the coyote... hes different.

LOL --- something told me you knew more than I thought you did --- thanks for the correction.
 
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AV1611VET

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You believe that the earth was created 6000 years ago by God, and that evolution didn't happen. That makes you a YEC by my definition.

Until I buy your dictionary, I'll stick with the conventional definition.
 
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EnemyPartyII

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LOL --- something told me you knew more than I thought you did --- thanks for the correction.

I own a Siberian Huskie... Canis lupus familiaris but its in the rules that you have to pretend they are wolves, or they sulk.
 
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AV1611VET

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but the big point remains.
interpretation=/=the text itself.

Fine --- you prefer Covenant Theology, I prefer Dispensational Theology --- we're both basically saying the same thing.

But when you tell me ---

rmwilliamsll said:
.. the rapture and tribulation are the providence of just a fraction of the greater Christian community.

--- I'm going to respond with how the Rapture and Tribulation fit in with the grand scheme of things.
 
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Elduran

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Until I buy your dictionary, I'll stick with the conventional definition.
Young Earth Creationism according to wikipedia

Unless you have anything that defines young earth creationism contrary to that, you fit the definition exactly. Let's examine the opening paragraph as it currently stands:

Young Earth creationism is a religious doctrine

Check

which teaches that the Earth and life on Earth were created by a direct action of God relatively recently (about 6,000 to 10,000 years ago).

Check

It is generally held by those Christians and Jews who believe that the ancient Hebrew text of Genesis is a literal account of historical events, that evidence for a strictly factual interpretation of the text is present in the world today, and that scientific evidence does not support Darwinian evolution or geological uniformitarianism.

Check.


Which bit of the definition didn't you agree with?
 
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Elduran

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That is correct, but let me reiterate, I am not a YEC.



i had replied with:
if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, treating it as a duck is a logical and wise thing to do.

and decided not to post it then.
but you said it much better. thanks.
No worries, your response would have been funnier ;)
 
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theFijian

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*lol* just saw "If it disagrees with the King James Bible - it's wrong."

Wonder what the original Hebrew authors would make of that.

In the Christians only Origins Theology forum AV1611VET astonished us all by claiming that the King James bible was more important than the original Hebrew, thus making a heretic of himself.
 
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rmwilliamsll

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Fine --- you prefer Covenant Theology, I prefer Dispensational Theology --- we're both basically saying the same thing.*


like you prefer YECism and i prefer TE?
however are these things merely preferences, to be chosen like you choose what color shirt to wear this morning? or are things of this level of importance something that ought to rely on evidence, consistency, completeness, simplicity and consilience, and historical precedence?

how do you judge between competing truth claims?
are there a set of criteria that ought to be used, like those few i listed above?
is there a domain of knowledge that is publically accessible that can form the basis for intersubjectivity and the continuous checking of ideas between people of very disparate cultures and beliefs?

that is the fundamental issue, not just of this thread, but of all the discussions on the board. is there a way to judge the evidence and the theories derived from them?

what is wrong with evolution?
as a scientific theory, very little and as an extension in the realm of metaphysics and an element of a world view, several things. But the scientific theory of TofE doesn't make these metaphysical claims, people do.

*btw, just for the record, dispensationalist and covenantal theology are not saying the same thing. on a bad day i think dispensationalism is a dangerous heresy as bad or worse than JEDP higher criticism; on a good day i can almost imagine that dispensationalism is abberant but inside the boundaries of the visible church. today's a bad day *grin*
 
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AV1611VET

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Which bit of the definition didn't you agree with?

None --- but now you check this:

Wikipedia: Young Earth Creation said:
The defining characteristic of this belief is that the Earth is "young", on the order of 6,000 to 10,000 years old, rather than the age of 4.5 billion years estimated by a variety of scientific methods including radiometric dating.

Do you still think I'm YEC?
 
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AV1611VET

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In the Christians only Origins Theology forum AV1611VET astonished us all by claiming that the King James bible was more important than the original Hebrew, thus making a heretic of himself.

Nope --- sure didn't --- or you would have posted it. I happen to remember what I said --- do you?
 
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