What's wrong with Christian music?

[nadroj1985]

For the record, the Beatles were extremely talented. To deny that shows an ignorance of music. (I make this claim despite not really liking the Beatles)

I know quite a lot of music, including the Beatles. I have yet to see evidence that they are extremely talented. I like them somewhat; I like them for what I think they were--a nice little pop band who made pretty songs. They aren't half as experimental as everyone seems to think IMHO.

 

[blackwasp]

You need to get beyond the "I want to hold your hand" days and venture towards the later material.

 

[nadroj1985]

You need to get beyond the "I want to hold your hand" days and venture towards the later material.

I have actually

I own all of their so-called "classic" albums. Rubber Soul and Revolver are heavily overrated, the White Album is a complete mess (but contains "Happiness is a Warm Gun- my fave from the Beatles), and Sgt. Pepper is just average. Abbey Road is the best Beatles album I would say; "I Want You" and "Come Together" are pretty good songs, and the medley on the second side is interesting. However, none of the albums is really that creative. They're all fairly well-constructed pop albums, but nothing more.

 

[theFijian]

I recently had a thought as to why I find that christian music uninteresting to secular music. Apologies if someone else has already said all of this but i couldn't be bothered reading through the whole thread.

A lot of christian artists see their music as a calling and even intend their music to be used as worship music. At the centre of this is a desire to glorify God. Amen to that I say.

However with the secular musician (I am speaking in general terms here) is less bound by a sense of an 'ulterior motive' (for wont of a better term) for their music. Therefore the secular musician is more likely to explore adn experiment musically as the music is the end, rather than a means to an end.

If I can put it simply, and with less procrastination, the 'secular' musician is more likely to experiment with musical styles than a 'christian' musician because for the christian musician the music is more a medium for their message than it is for the secular musician. Your thoughts are much appreciated, as I may be talking complete dung.

cheers,
Andy

 

[nadroj1985]

I recently had a thought as to why I find that christian music uninteresting to secular music. Apologies if someone else has already said all of this but i couldn't be bothered reading through the whole thread.

A lot of christian artists see their music as a calling and even intend their music to be used as worship music. At the centre of this is a desire to glorify God. Amen to that I say.

However with the secular musician (I am speaking in general terms here) is less bound by a sense of an 'ulterior motive' (for wont of a better term) for their music. Therefore the secular musician is more likely to explore adn experiment musically as the music is the end, rather than a means to an end.

If I can put it simply, and with less procrastination, the 'secular' musician is more likely to experiment with musical styles than a 'christian' musician because for the christian musician the music is more a medium for their message than it is for the secular musician. Your thoughts are much appreciated, as I may be talking complete dung.

cheers,
Andy

Hahaha I don't think it's dung. Actually I think you make a great point, and no we hadn't mentioned this earlier. The words "ulterior motive" have some bad connotations lol, but I see exactly what you mean. This is why I think that quite a bit of "Christian" music seems to copy "secular" music in the actual style of the music. They are trying to appeal to as many people as possible, so they use the popular styles of music as a framework, and then add their message. Nothing wrong with that. For me, when I'm listening to music, I listen more to the music itself than the lyrics, so this leads to my lack of Christian music.

Great point

 

[Sleepy Jean]

I had an interesting conversation with my cousin on this topic the other day, and Christian music seems to be a relitively new type of music. All the sounds of the comtemporary "music I should be listening to" originated from the "evil classic rock" that my mother hates me listening to. It wouldn't have sounded the same as it does now if Led Zeppelin, Elvis, Jimmi Hendrix, the Beatles, ect, had never been.

 

[Godzman]

umm..because they don't write good songs. i can't stand to listen for more than about 3 seconds for any of those bands. is that ok with you?

you don't like Mercy Me, or Audio Adrenaline.

Third Day is my favorite.

 

[Dadmeister]

A lot of christian artists see their music as a calling and even intend their music to be used as worship music. At the centre of this is a desire to glorify God. Amen to that I say.

However with the secular musician (I am speaking in general terms here) is less bound by a sense of an 'ulterior motive' (for wont of a better term) for their music. Therefore the secular musician is more likely to explore adn experiment musically as the music is the end, rather than a means to an end.

If I can put it simply, and with less procrastination, the 'secular' musician is more likely to experiment with musical styles than a 'christian' musician because for the christian musician the music is more a medium for their message than it is for the secular musician. Your thoughts are much appreciated, as I may be talking complete dung.

Kudos to you TF this indeed is a huge factor - but I feel you are putting way to much weight on the musician rather than the Christian music "fan"... Just ask Doug Pinnick, Klayton Scott, Ben Moody, or Paul Hewson about the pressures of wearing your faith on your sleeve.

To this day I am amazed by Christians who listen to Secular music, attend professional sports games, go to R movies, and even go clubbing.... but when their beloved Christian band proclaims they do not want to be labelled a "Christian" band - it's How could they?? the sellouts!!!

Shame...

Maybe when we as Christians stop putting the pressure on Christian artists and entertainers to fit "our" expectations - they will be able to express themselves and be "interesting"...

Dadmeister

 

[theFijian]

Kudos to you TF this indeed is a huge factor - but I feel you are putting way to much weight on the musician rather than the Christian music "fan"... Just ask Doug Pinnick, Klayton Scott, Ben Moody, or Paul Hewson about the pressures of wearing your faith on your sleeve.

To this day I am amazed by Christians who listen to Secular music, attend professional sports games, go to R movies, and even go clubbing.... but when their beloved Christian band proclaims they do not want to be labelled a "Christian" band - it's How could they?? the sellouts!!!

Shame...

Maybe when we as Christians stop putting the pressure on Christian artists and entertainers to fit "our" expectations - they will be able to express themselves and be "interesting"...

Dadmeister

Some interesting points but I personally couldn't give two hoots about what christian artists do. However some of them make a big deal of their christianity to play to the christian market for the sake of sales, but then when they want some musical credibility from the secular market they play down their christianity. They can't have it both ways I'm afraid!

cheers,
Andy

 

[brettnolan]

Been away for a few days, interesting where the conversation has gone.

Just to catch up a little...wasp, I never said the Beatles were not talented (except for maybe, you know who). I think the accomplishments of the other three speak to their talents. Unfortunately, I can't remember how we got on this issue(probably had something to do with complex musical structures or something), but the early Beatles stuff was fairly simple...and that's all I meant by that.

Fijian, I think you have made the best point so far. I think this site has more than its share of music afficionados. I guess I thought that there would be more average listeners than there seem to be. As a casual listener myself, even though there are times when I listen with more of an analytical ear, I am still not convinced that Christian music sucks.

 

[nadroj1985]

Been away for a few days, interesting where the conversation has gone.

Just to catch up a little...wasp, I never said the Beatles were not talented (except for maybe, you know who). I think the accomplishments of the other three speak to their talents. Unfortunately, I can't remember how we got on this issue(probably had something to do with complex musical structures or something), but the early Beatles stuff was fairly simple...and that's all I meant by that.

Fijian, I think you have made the best point so far. I think this site has more than its share of music afficionados. I guess I thought that there would be more average listeners than there seem to be. As a casual listener myself, even though there are times when I listen with more of an analytical ear, I am still not convinced that Christian music sucks.

Good post, Brett, and good to see you back

Oh, and maybe we should start a thread discussing the merits of the Beatles. I'd like to see why so many think they were great.

 

[blackwasp]

Good post, Brett, and good to see you back

Oh, and maybe we should start a thread discussing the merits of the Beatles. I'd like to see why so many think they were great.

I'm game.

 

[blackwasp]

Been away for a few days, interesting where the conversation has gone.

Just to catch up a little...wasp, I never said the Beatles were not talented (except for maybe, you know who). I think the accomplishments of the other three speak to their talents. Unfortunately, I can't remember how we got on this issue(probably had something to do with complex musical structures or something), but the early Beatles stuff was fairly simple...and that's all I meant by that.

Fijian, I think you have made the best point so far. I think this site has more than its share of music afficionados. I guess I thought that there would be more average listeners than there seem to be. As a casual listener myself, even though there are times when I listen with more of an analytical ear, I am still not convinced that Christian music sucks.

Great post! I agree that the early material was fairly simple, but the catchy melodies and instrumentation was still pretty groundbreaking at the time.

 

[blackwasp]

I recently had a thought as to why I find that christian music uninteresting to secular music. Apologies if someone else has already said all of this but i couldn't be bothered reading through the whole thread.

A lot of christian artists see their music as a calling and even intend their music to be used as worship music. At the centre of this is a desire to glorify God. Amen to that I say.

However with the secular musician (I am speaking in general terms here) is less bound by a sense of an 'ulterior motive' (for wont of a better term) for their music. Therefore the secular musician is more likely to explore adn experiment musically as the music is the end, rather than a means to an end.

If I can put it simply, and with less procrastination, the 'secular' musician is more likely to experiment with musical styles than a 'christian' musician because for the christian musician the music is more a medium for their message than it is for the secular musician. Your thoughts are much appreciated, as I may be talking complete dung.

cheers,
Andy

Very good point, Andy. I think that there is a distinction between Christian praise music and christian entertainment music (Grits v. Chris Tomlin). I think that it is great that there are songwriters like Chris Tomlin, but I wish they would tackle weightier doctrine then they do. As far as christian entertainment goes...well, I think those musicians should have to compete in the secular market without a "christian label" to protect them.

 

[miamiatw051]

i just read the whole forum and here is wat i have to say....
new christian bands are sound alikes to secular and its a good thing..i like blink 182's sound but the lyrics are horrible..relient k is awesome..my favorite band

cornerstone is a christina rock music festival and all those bands are at least decent..just b.c. a band with a little less money to work with(like a christian band) doesn mean they arent bad.

 

[blackwasp]

"Sadie Hawkins dance, in my khaki pants, do you like my sweater?"

-yup, they are deep.

 

[blackwasp]

Reliant K is one of the reasons CCM is scoffed at in such severity.

 

[brettnolan]

"Sadie Hawkins dance, in my khaki pants, do you like my sweater?"

-yup, they are deep.

Don't make me go find retarded Blink 182 Lyrics.

Some songs are just for fun...so what?

 

[blackwasp]

I'm not supporting Blink, but what is the point of being on a christian label if you are just going to write "fun songs"? If Reliant K's writing is that similar to Blink's, why isn't K successful among nonchristians?

 

[brettnolan]

I agree with your other post...I don't play RK for my non-Christian friends because when I first heard it, I immediately thought of Blink182. But I have acquired a taste for the clean Blink. Blink, BTW, has quite a few meaningful tunes, but they have to load everything with ^%#*!.

My point is that both have some songs that are just plain stupid and other songs that have some sort of message. The message from either band isn't immediately clear because of the writing style. I have no idea what that style is called, but you know what I mean...it sort of sounds disjointed and incoherent, but if you take the time to really listen, you realize there's more to it. For instance, in RK's "chapstick..." the entire message is basically the last four lines of the song:

can i relate to you the way you relate to me
can you help me out with my chemistry
i don't want to be precieved the way i am
i just want to be percieved the way i am

Blink182 does similar things with their songs. Most of it can be just garbage...kind of like the thoughts that run through your head throughout the day...then at the end of the song(day) the deeper meanings become more apparent.