What's wrong with Christian music?

[ps139]

Theres no more sense in saying a particular genre of music sucks, you probably don't know that genre at all. Who's to say the genre of music you listen to is good? There are millions of people that think your music sucks. all i'm saying is....if you truly appreciate MUSIC, you will in turn appreciate all genres for what they are and who they appeal to. YOU don't need to be a negative critic.

Very true! If you truly appreciate music, you can find talent and excellence in almost every genre. Maybe one day I will be able to sit through a country music song and find the genius that might reside within .

I've gone through a lot of different phases where I only listened to rap, or electronica, or trance, or classic rock, or jambands, or 50s rock....I've come to discover than in each group there is a lot of garbage but there are also quite a few diamonds in the rough. I am even beginning to like some 80s songs!!

 

[edenvegan]

the Chrisian record industry doesn't go after cutting edge.
they only sign artists who sound like popular secular artists that have already made it.
the christian record companies don't ever take chances and sign bands that have their own agenda. even bands like 12 stones... i bought their cd and was dissapointed... i've heard it all before a million times.
i don't think that all christian artists suck, but i think that the record companies that sign them are afraid of finding artists who make unique art.

Okay, so where does one go to find out about "underground Christian music?" Isn't there an alternative Christian music magazine out? And in regards to companies that avoid signing unique artists, what about Gotee brothers? I thought they sign unique groups, like Sonicflood. And there's another group called Superchic[k]. Inpop records signed them, (but I don't know if they're a Christian record company.) And lastly, I have a cd of a Christian band who sound a little gothic, industrial, and electronic all together: deitiphobia. They were signed by N*SOUL records, and I know that they specialize in unique sounds. Ever heard of them?

 

[blackwasp]

Sigh, the same old debate over and over again. I apologize ahead of time for being redundant because I chose not to read through the posts.

First off, in the OP, there should have been a distinction between some of the bands. Bands like Chevelle and Switchfoot (among others) are on secular labels, play for a secular audience, and therefore are secular bands, regardless of whether the members of the group are christian or not. The problem with christian music is that it refuses to push the envelope. You will never, I repeat never, see a christian band start a rock revolution (think Beatles, Sabbath, Metallica, Guns n Roses, Alice in Chains, Green Day (though I despise pop-punk)). Christian labels are not searching for bands that want to try something new and innovative. So who foots the blame? Well the bands can't be the only ones to blame. Think of the typical person who listens to christian music. (Of course this is a generalization) Most people who are big on many CCM bands have very "genred" tastes (i.e. give me my punk and nothing else). When this is what the labels see the demand is for in the Christian market, they sweep up bands that are without talent and bands that enjoy riding another band's formula to success. If you really get down to it, how is Reliant K signed??? If there wasn't a christian market, would they have the talent and songwriting ability to compete against secular bands? I believe not.

Also, think about your CCM bands. They can pretty much be classified into four categories: bubblegum pop, poser rock, superposer rock (death metal and the such), or crappy electronic influenced music. I think when you get down to the meat of the matter, you will realize that you cannot play "rock and roll" and sing about loving Jesus. In the same fashion, you cannot rap about being humble. Without bragging, rap isn't really rap. Without attitude, raw emotion, and connection with the audience, rock isn't rock. This is the reason why "God Metal" is a joke and always will be.

The CCM industry probably will never change. They make their money and satisfy the tone deaf audience they address.

As long as CCM pumps out the artists they do, this christian will weep for his brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[fortyfourbreaks]

blackwasp, WHO said that Christian music had to push the envelope? Who said it has to change?? and who's thinking it will change? its so obvious that it won't change, no need to tell us that, or at least me. So then, you must be saying these things to wake up all these supposed 'tone-deaf' CCM listeners who don't know music. right? I wouldn't know what your motives are, but My Honest Opinion is, what kinda benefit is there in hating on CCM? Dude, most people aren't hardcore music listeners, alot of them are more casual, alot of people don't have access or the means to certain types of music. There is such a wide range and genre of music appealing to all different types of people, I'm sure thats obviousl to you. CCM is one genre that appeals to certain people. You sound like the type of person who thinks the only good music, is the type you listen to. Hey I used to be like that, maybe i still am, but im workin on it. But man, i've since noticed there is beauty in ALL music, yea especially CCM. It has to be GOOD or else no one would listen to it. Why do you think there is gangsta hip-hop, and trance music and so forth. People like it, because it sounds good, and put simply MUSIC JUST PLAIN SOUNDS GOOD, no matter what your listening too. It moves, it motivates, it captivates and invigorates. Whether your listening to krautrock or reggae, indie rock, or jungle, jazz or bluegrass. Or metal or emocore or post-rock. or IDM or trip-hop, dude it's just amazing the amount of good music. Whichever one or ones you listen to, much props to you!

btw, CCM is awesome, im an old-school ccm lover myself, pfr, point of grace, geoff more and the distance.[/SIZE][/SIZE]

 

[blackwasp]

I'm sorry, but some genres of music are simply not good. You can't get over that. On top of that, CCM isn't a genre, it is a subculture. It steals music produced by the secular market, cheapens it, writes cookie-cutter "christian" lyrics that couldn't offend anyone, and then markets it to people who are afraid of the "evils" of secular music.

 

[brettnolan]

First off, in the OP, there should have been a distinction between some of the bands. Bands like Chevelle and Switchfoot (among others) are on secular labels, play for a secular audience, and therefore are secular bands, regardless of whether the members of the group are christian or not.

Switchfoot's first 3 albums were on Christian labels, as was Chevelle's first. Neither fact matters however, if you listen to their music it has (at least in the case of Switchfoot) on obvious Christian message. Frankly, I'm surprised, though, it took someone this long to bring that up. Plumb, Orrico & 12 Stones could also be argued considered secular by your definition.

The problem with christian music is that it refuses to push the envelope. You will never, I repeat never, see a christian band start a rock revolution (think Beatles, Sabbath, Metallica, Guns n Roses, Alice in Chains, Green Day (though I despise pop-punk)).

I don't think this point can be refuted, at least without the "never." I'm very surprised by the number of people on this web site who claim that they are only interested in music if it's ORIGINAL. That is obviously not the norm as I will point out later.

Christian labels are not searching for bands that want to try something new and innovative.

Probably true, but most secular labels are guilty of this as well. Otherwise how do you explain Nsync, Backstreet Boys, 98degrees and you can make this string in every genre. The goal of Christian music is to provide and alternative to the mainstream. The risk of going into unchartered territory is great enough for the BIG record lables, how do you think the public would take it with a Christian message?

So who foots the blame? Well the bands can't be the only ones to blame. Think of the typical person who listens to christian music. (Of course this is a generalization) Most people who are big on many CCM bands have very "genred" tastes (i.e. give me my punk and nothing else).

I would say that the opposite is true. Most CCM listeners have a wider variety of tastes AND don't care if it "sounds like" someone else as long as its another alternative.

When this is what the labels see the demand is for in the Christian market, they sweep up bands that are without talent and bands that enjoy riding another band's formula to success. If you really get down to it, how is Reliant K signed??? If there wasn't a christian market, would they have the talent and songwriting ability to compete against secular bands? I believe not.

Good point, only with respect to Relient K, however.

Also, think about your CCM bands. They can pretty much be classified into four categories: bubblegum pop, poser rock, superposer rock (death metal and the such), or crappy electronic influenced music. I think when you get down to the meat of the matter, you will realize that you cannot play "rock and roll" and sing about loving Jesus.

That just doesn't make sense. You can play rock and roll and sing about loving "Gloria" or "Sweet Child of Mine" or anyone else, why couldn't you do it with God.

In the same fashion, you cannot rap about being humble. Without bragging, rap isn't really rap.

Maybe

Without attitude, raw emotion, and connection with the audience, rock isn't rock. This is the reason why "God Metal" is a joke and always will be.

Why can't you have any of these in Christian music?

The CCM industry probably will never change. They make their money and satisfy the tone deaf audience they address.

As long as CCM pumps out the artists they do, this christian will weep for his brothers and sisters in Christ.

Unnecessary attack.

It steals music produced by the secular market,

imitating is not stealing (ask your typical "sampling" artist)

cheapens it,

false

writes cookie-cutter "christian" lyrics that couldn't offend anyone,

false - this shows that you haven't listened to any lately

and then markets it to people who are afraid of the "evils" of secular music.

your opinion, and even if fact, so what?

 

[blackwasp]

Compare Switchfoot's work on christian labels compared with "the Beautiful Letdown". Would anyone really want to listen to their early stuff? Same thing with Chevelle. Their first album consisted of little more than tune-downed guitars and repetitive songs.

By the way, I do give props to the Elms. I think if they pursued a secular audience their songs would only get better.

 

[blackwasp]

I believe I read somewhere that 12 Stones denied Christ.

Was it not long ago that Evanescence was "christian"?

 

[inchristaloneilive]

christian music is great- ever heard of Noel Robinson and Nu image. they are gr8, i also like some delirious songs.

 

[RTM]

Christian music is a crock. I'm sick of hearing lyrics that sound like a five year old wrote them - a popular song for my school's chapel services has an oh-so-inspired section that goes "I'll read my Bible and pray/I'll follow You all day/All day now/All day/All day now" - and I'm sick of everything being so 'safe' and untalented. There's rarely new themes, there's rarely any solid theology, there's rarely any reality ... it's sickening.

You need to get you some Steve Taylor and Larry Norman, son!

There is nothing "wrong" with Christian music, in the Biblical sense of the word; the debate ultimately comes down to personal preference. You can debate endlessly over personal preference without coming to a decisive conclusion.

As for why I don't like modern Christian music, it's a matter of personal taste. I like classic rock, and they don't make it anymore. This affords me the use of such phrases as "they don't make it like they used to!" and variations on the "When I was a kid..." theme. I do enjoy classic Christian rock though.

 

[fortyfourbreaks]

for the hip-hop thing, what kind of hip-hop are you listening too??????? The many awesome hip-hop groups that I have known have postive tunes, evoking a whole range of emotions, hip-hop isn't just bragging with attitude. your comments tell me you havent fully listen to the whole range of hip-hop genre. There are hip-hop tunes that'll make you cry. ( a little overexaggated, but you know what I mean).

NAME a genre that is SIMPLY NOT good please. I want to know what you are talking about. Please tell me you've at least listen to the genres that you dislike somewhat extensively.

I see no open-mindedness in you. You think people who listen to CCM music are some mindless drones listening to bad music. You'll even weep for them b/c of the type of music they are listening too untill they change music tastes. Yet you seem the most close-minded person of all. Does everyone have to listen to the music you like before we all start knowing what GOOD music is?

I don't mean to pick on you but theres countless amounts of people like you who think they know music, musical snobs if you will. Hey, i admit I am one too. I just dislike it when, people think they are listening to the best music in the world and take their energy and time to criticize other genres or subcultures on how much they suck and how much they lack innovation or how much they steal.

lates

 

[nadroj1985]

for the hip-hop thing, what kind of hip-hop are you listening too??????? The many awesome hip-hop groups that I have known have postive tunes, evoking a whole range of emotions, hip-hop isn't just bragging with attitude. your comments tell me you havent fully listen to the whole range of hip-hop genre. There are hip-hop tunes that'll make you cry. ( a little overexaggated, but you know what I mean).

NAME a genre that is SIMPLY NOT good please. I want to know what you are talking about. Please tell me you've at least listen to the genres that you dislike somewhat extensively.

I see no open-mindedness in you. You think people who listen to CCM music are some mindless drones listening to bad music. You'll even weep for them b/c of the type of music they are listening too untill they change music tastes. Yet you seem the most close-minded person of all. Does everyone have to listen to the music you like before we all start knowing what GOOD music is?

I don't mean to pick on you but theres countless amounts of people like you who think they know music, musical snobs if you will. Hey, i admit I am one too. I just dislike it when, people think they are listening to the best music in the world and take their energy and time to criticize other genres or subcultures on how much they suck and how much they lack innovation or how much they steal.

lates

Just wanted to cut in and say you rock

Good post my man.

 

[blackwasp]

for the hip-hop thing, what kind of hip-hop are you listening too??????? The many awesome hip-hop groups that I have known have postive tunes, evoking a whole range of emotions, hip-hop isn't just bragging with attitude. your comments tell me you havent fully listen to the whole range of hip-hop genre. There are hip-hop tunes that'll make you cry. ( a little overexaggated, but you know what I mean).

NAME a genre that is SIMPLY NOT good please. I want to know what you are talking about. Please tell me you've at least listen to the genres that you dislike somewhat extensively.

I see no open-mindedness in you. You think people who listen to CCM music are some mindless drones listening to bad music. You'll even weep for them b/c of the type of music they are listening too untill they change music tastes. Yet you seem the most close-minded person of all. Does everyone have to listen to the music you like before we all start knowing what GOOD music is?

I don't mean to pick on you but theres countless amounts of people like you who think they know music, musical snobs if you will. Hey, i admit I am one too. I just dislike it when, people think they are listening to the best music in the world and take their energy and time to criticize other genres or subcultures on how much they suck and how much they lack innovation or how much they steal.

lates

I said rap was about boasting. I'm assuming by "hip-hop" you are including R&B and the softer material. If that is how you took it, I apologize, however I think that that is a subdivision of pop. Rap is about boasting. John Rueben (sp.?) is not real rap.

Oh man, where do I start on bad genres??? Genres in general are bad. If you think of the good genres (classic rock, seattle grunge, etc.) versus the very bad genres (80s pop, modern country, pop-punk, death metal, etc.) you will notice that there is a very big difference. Think about classic rock. How many unbelievable bands recorded albums between 1963 and 1975? What was the key to their success? Talent, innovation, and creative direction. Most of the bands didn't sound overly-similar. Now think of modern country music. Play the same seven notes on slide guitar over an acoustic picking through a standard progression in G, add soft drums, an occasional violin, predictable melodies, and goofy lyrics. Pop-punk isn't any better. I'm not attacking CCM. I'm attacking bad music in general. CCM just puts out far, far worse music than the secular market.

 

[blackwasp]

CCM is just that predictable. No innovation. No direction. No progress.

 

[nadroj1985]

I said rap was about boasting. I'm assuming by "hip-hop" you are including R&B and the softer material. If that is how you took it, I apologize, however I think that that is a subdivision of pop. Rap is about boasting. John Rueben (sp.?) is not real rap.

Oh man, where do I start on bad genres??? Genres in general are bad. If you think of the good genres (classic rock, seattle grunge, etc.) versus the very bad genres (80s pop, modern country, pop-punk, death metal, etc.) you will notice that there is a very big difference. Think about classic rock. How many unbelievable bands recorded albums between 1963 and 1975? What was the key to their success? Talent, innovation, and creative direction. Most of the bands didn't sound overly-similar. Now think of modern country music. Play the same seven notes on slide guitar over an acoustic picking through a standard progression in G, add soft drums, an occasional violin, predictable melodies, and goofy lyrics. Pop-punk isn't any better. I'm not attacking CCM. I'm attacking bad music in general. CCM just puts out far, far worse music than the secular market.

You can't attack "bad music in general." There is no such thing. There might be music that you don't like, and that's all well and good. But the fact is that there are other people in the world, and some of them like the genres you have incorrectly labelled "bad." This is the essence of a music snob, someone who thinks his/her music tastes are better than someone else's. Music is completely a matter of taste. You can debate it all you want, but when you come down to it, music is good so long as someone likes it. That's the only requirement.

 

[Sleepy Jean]

Christian music does all sound the same to me. Its all newly recorded and that's enough for me to change the radio station. I prefer to listen to classic rock and classic country, and have all my life. Its just a matter of opinion. I have nothing against the lyrics in Christian music, and I have written some myself. I just don't care for their artists.

 

[blackwasp]

You can't attack "bad music in general." There is no such thing. There might be music that you don't like, and that's all well and good. But the fact is that there are other people in the world, and some of them like the genres you have incorrectly labelled "bad." This is the essence of a music snob, someone who thinks his/her music tastes are better than someone else's. Music is completely a matter of taste. You can debate it all you want, but when you come down to it, music is good so long as someone likes it. That's the only requirement.

Sure I can attack bad music in general! I don't really like the Beatles, but I do recognize that they were the best group of all time. Good music is good music, whether you want to admit it or not!

Read the lyrics to "She Hates Me" by Puddle of Mudd, then read the lyrics to "Stairway to Heaven". Which one is better written? Am I conceited for saying that Led Zeppelin is a better band? If you don't want to accept that, does that make me a snob?

I don't see how you can think that music is just about personal taste. Why is there ever a "Battle of the Bands"? Do the judges pick the band that they personally enjoy the most? Perhaps there is something more to music. Perhaps music is art. If you like the way that Jim Davis draws Garfield more than you like Picasso's work, does that make Jim Davis a better artist? I think a music snob is anyone who equates garbage with beauty. Saying that music is no more than "someone's personal taste" is arrogant. If this makes me a music snob, so be it.

 

[nadroj1985]

Sure I can attack bad music in general! I don't really like the Beatles, but I do recognize that they were the best group of all time. Good music is good music, whether you want to admit it or not!

Read the lyrics to "She Hates Me" by Puddle of Mudd, then read the lyrics to "Stairway to Heaven". Which one is better written? Am I conceited for saying that Led Zeppelin is a better band? If you don't want to accept that, does that make me a snob?

I don't see how you can think that music is just about personal taste. Why is there ever a "Battle of the Bands"? Do the judges pick the band that they personally enjoy the most? Perhaps there is something more to music. Perhaps music is art. If you like the way that Jim Davis draws Garfield more than you like Picasso's work, does that make Jim Davis a better artist? I think a music snob is anyone who equates garbage with beauty. Saying that music is no more than "someone's personal taste" is arrogant. If this makes me a music snob, so be it.

OK, let me put it this way. What makes "Stairway to Heaven" better than "She Hates Me?"

 

[nadroj1985]

Oh and I'll let that Beatles thing alone, we could argue that in another thread maybe......best group of all time? Please.

 

[brettnolan]

You could say that about a lot of bands signed to a smaller label early in their careers. Can't think of an example at the moment. Good to know that you actually listen to it enough to know who the Elms are (i can't say that I'm very familiar with them).

BTW - I would like to know where you found that 12 Stones denied Christ, not saying that it's not true, but I'd like to see it. I know that Evanescence decided after they made it big that they didn't want to be viewed as a Christian band anymore. Sad that your principles can be so easily "lost." Although, I'm a little curious as to whether that had anything to do with Ben (Moody?) leaving/being fired from the band.