What's wrong with blasphemy?

Status
Not open for further replies.

uberd00b

The Emperor has no clothes.
Oct 14, 2006
5,642
244
46
Newcastle, UK
✟22,308.00
Faith
Taoist
Marital Status
Single
Apparently I'm unable to post in the other thread of the same name, as only one non-Christian poster is allowed to post in it (that single poster being the OP) so I will start this thread on the topic in order to ponder blasphemy.

Does any believer consider that accepting blasphemy as possible diminishes God to a human (and often sub-human or childlike) level?
 

synger

Confessional Liturgical Lutheran
Supporter
Sep 12, 2006
14,537
1,565
59
✟44,856.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you asking if I think that the use of blasphemy itself reduces God? Or if I think that accepting the possibility of blasphemy reduces God? It's the "accepting blasphemy as possible" phrase that I'm not clear on, perhaps because it IS possible... blasphemy happens whether we like it or not. Can you clarify?
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,664
51,417
Guam
✟4,896,395.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Ya --- I'm at a loss too.

Does blaspheming New Jersey diminish New Jersey to the status of "county"?

Would the opposite work? If I complimented Pluto, would that raise Pluto to the status of "planet"?
 
Upvote 0

uberd00b

The Emperor has no clothes.
Oct 14, 2006
5,642
244
46
Newcastle, UK
✟22,308.00
Faith
Taoist
Marital Status
Single
Sorry I'll clarify. It's my opinion that it is simply not possible to blaspheme a God as they are (almost) by definition far superior to us. Blasphemy seems to mean saying or doing something about God that God finds offensive. But this seems as ludicrous as a human being being offended by the actions of ants.

So to insist that it is possible to offend God seems to lower God down from "God-level" to "human-level" (which ironically could be, and possibly has been, considered blasphemous). If a human being can take something with good grace then it seems certain to me that God can do likewise without disolving into some sort of offended tantrum.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,664
51,417
Guam
✟4,896,395.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Sorry I'll clarify. It's my opinion that it is simply not possible to blaspheme a God as they are (almost) by definition far superior to us. Blasphemy seems to mean saying or doing something about God that God finds offensive. But this seems as ludicrous as a human being being offended by the actions of ants.

So to insist that it is possible to offend God seems to lower God down from "God-level" to "human-level" (which ironically could be, and possibly has been, considered blasphemous). If a human being can take something with good grace then it seems certain to me that God can do likewise without disolving into some sort of offended tantrum.
Try that with your boss. Go reduce him to the level of [what you do]; or, better yet, let others know that you:

  1. Don't think he exists.
  2. His memos are forgeries.
  3. He's a figment of your co-workers' imagination.
  4. Wear an icon on your shirt that says, in effect, "I don't believe in bosses" - (if you need one, it's the letter A with a circle around it).
Be sure and mean it.
 
Upvote 0

synger

Confessional Liturgical Lutheran
Supporter
Sep 12, 2006
14,537
1,565
59
✟44,856.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Oh, in that I agree with you, uberdood. Nothing we do or say can diminish God himself. He is, and was, and will always be. He's beyond our silly little boxes and words and descriptions and frameworks. He's a big God. He can take whatever we throw at him. *smiles*

However, words DO have impact on people. And when a group of people highly respect something in their community -- whether it is God, or a concept like "freedom" or a symbol like a flag, or an institution like a particular football game -- they will be angry if someone speaks or acts against it disrespectfully.

When a synagogue or mosque is attacked and damaged, it is not just an attack against the building. Buildings can be rebuilt. It is an attack against what that building stands for to the people who worship there.

When someone comes into a strong-rivalry football game and sits in the home section but shouts encouragement to the visitors, it is not just an attack against the home team, but also an affront to the home fans who are trying to support their team with solidarity and community.

Most countries have removed the blasphemy laws from their books, or just don't use them anymore. Blasphemy is more of a social issue than a civil/criminal one nowadays. But that doesn't make it any less offensive to those who believe. It's not just God that they are attacking. God can take it. They are also attacking dearly-held and strongly-respected beliefs by a community of faith.

In countries where blasphemy is indeed still on the books as a criminal offense, that community of faith makes it very clear that blasphemous words and actions are not acceptable even in the marketplace of ideas.
 
Upvote 0

uberd00b

The Emperor has no clothes.
Oct 14, 2006
5,642
244
46
Newcastle, UK
✟22,308.00
Faith
Taoist
Marital Status
Single
Try that with your boss. Go reduce him to the level of [what you do]; or, better yet, let others know that you:

  1. Don't think he exists.
  2. His memos are forgeries.
  3. He's a figment of your co-workers' imagination.
  4. Wear an icon on your shirt that says, in effect, "I don't believe in bosses" - (if you need one, it's the letter A with a circle around it).
Be sure and mean it.
He'd laugh. Is my boss God's boss too? If not how can he act in the "bigger" fashion?
 
Upvote 0

uberd00b

The Emperor has no clothes.
Oct 14, 2006
5,642
244
46
Newcastle, UK
✟22,308.00
Faith
Taoist
Marital Status
Single
Oh, in that I agree with you, uberdood. Nothing we do or say can diminish God himself. He is, and was, and will always be. He's beyond our silly little boxes and words and descriptions and frameworks. He's a big God. He can take whatever we throw at him. *smiles*
I think we're in agreement. :)
 
Upvote 0

ebia

Senior Contributor
Jul 6, 2004
41,711
2,142
A very long way away. Sometimes even further.
✟54,775.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
Apparently I'm unable to post in the other thread of the same name, as only one non-Christian poster is allowed to post in it (that single poster being the OP) so I will start this thread on the topic in order to ponder blasphemy.

Does any believer consider that accepting blasphemy as possible diminishes God to a human (and often sub-human or childlike) level?
Blasphemy damages our relationship with God.

As a teacher, when a student says something inapproprate to me I address it not because I'm hurt by it but because that student's relationship with me is damaged by it, and if it's not addressed that student is in danger of forming habits that will damage or limit his or her other relationships. Learning to be appropriately respectful is necessary for the person being respectful at least as much as for the person being respected.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

RedTulipMom

Legend
Apr 18, 2004
93,537
5,940
54
illinois
✟137,834.00
Faith
Nazarene
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Its about respect. God is a Holy God. He deserves respect.

Our parents deserve respect. Is it ok for children to call names to their parents and be disrespectful to them? Why would it be ok to disrespect the God of the Universe? Why would blasphemy be ok with God?
 
Upvote 0

synger

Confessional Liturgical Lutheran
Supporter
Sep 12, 2006
14,537
1,565
59
✟44,856.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I don't think anyone's suggesting that blasphemy is okay, especially to those who believe.

As for those who do not believe and so blaspheme with seeming impunity, knowing it is upsetting to those who do believe... I think they are disrespectful and rude, and I think their actions/words speak volumes about their character. If they don't realize how people of faith might hear their words, that's one thing. But if they do and they say then anyway, then I have little regard for their manners.

I think of them with the same disdain I would to someone who purposely chooses a pork dinner to eat in front of a Muslim, all the while gushing about how tasty it is and how she should try some "just this once". Or someone who sports a "Darwin Fish" on their car to show how clever they are to bastardize a basic symbol of a religion to make a political point about one small non-essential portion of that religion's beliefs.

Socially, blasphemy is rude. Religiously, it could be dangerous. In some countries, it could cost more than just dirty looks.

But does it actually affect God? No. It affects how we relate to God, as someone so clearly said above.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,664
51,417
Guam
✟4,896,395.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I don't think anyone's suggesting that blasphemy is okay, especially to those who believe.

As for those who do not believe and so blaspheme with seeming impunity, knowing it is upsetting to those who do believe... I think they are disrespectful and rude, and I think their actions/words speak volumes about their character. If they don't realize how people of faith might hear their words, that's one thing. But if they do and they say then anyway, then I have little regard for their manners.

I think of them with the same disdain I would to someone who purposely chooses a pork dinner to eat in front of a Muslim, all the while gushing about how tasty it is and how she should try some "just this once". Or someone who sports a "Darwin Fish" on their car to show how clever they are to bastardize a basic symbol of a religion to make a political point about one small non-essential portion of that religion's beliefs.

Socially, blasphemy is rude. Religiously, it could be dangerous. In some countries, it could cost more than just dirty looks.

But does it actually affect God? No. It affects how we relate to God, as someone so clearly said above.
When I came here over two years ago, I was shocked by what I read. I almost left, but then I remembered something Jesus said:
Matthew 12:31a said:
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men:
--- and I was [somewhat] satisfied with that; but then, just recently, someone referred to Jesus in a way that was just absolutely profane. I thought about leaving again, but then they closed down General Apologetics.

Some might get away with blaspheming Jesus, but none will get away with blaspheming the Holy Ghost. As the rest of that verse reads:
Matthew 12:31b said:
...but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
 
Upvote 0

uberd00b

The Emperor has no clothes.
Oct 14, 2006
5,642
244
46
Newcastle, UK
✟22,308.00
Faith
Taoist
Marital Status
Single
Its about respect. God is a Holy God. He deserves respect.

Our parents deserve respect. Is it ok for children to call names to their parents and be disrespectful to them? Why would it be ok to disrespect the God of the Universe? Why would blasphemy be ok with God?
Both you and Ebia mention respect. But many humans would shrug off a lack of respect. Why would God be incapable of doing the same? Or in fact doing better?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

uberd00b

The Emperor has no clothes.
Oct 14, 2006
5,642
244
46
Newcastle, UK
✟22,308.00
Faith
Taoist
Marital Status
Single
When I came here over two years ago, I was shocked by what I read. I almost left, but then I remembered something Jesus said:--- and I was [somewhat] satisfied with that; but then, just recently, someone referred to Jesus in a way that was just absolutely profane. I thought about leaving again, but then they closed down General Apologetics.

Some might get away with blaspheming Jesus, but none will get away with blaspheming the Holy Ghost. As the rest of that verse reads:
It does appear that blasphemy is solely to do with the individual believers sense of personal offence. "I'm offended at what you say about my beliefs, and so I'll say that my God is too." Then the believer gets to indulge in a nice little revenge fantasy about what their God is going to do to the person that insulted their beliefs. It's kind of sad really.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,664
51,417
Guam
✟4,896,395.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
It does appear that blasphemy is solely to do with the individual believers sense of personal offence. "I'm offended at what you say about my beliefs, and so I'll say that my God is too." Then the believer gets to indulge in a nice little revenge fantasy about what their God is going to do to the person that insulted their beliefs. It's kind of sad really.
But according to Taoism, blasphemy is needed to offset compliments --- is it not?
 
Upvote 0

ebia

Senior Contributor
Jul 6, 2004
41,711
2,142
A very long way away. Sometimes even further.
✟54,775.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
Both you and Ebia mention respect. But many humans would shrug off a lack of respect. Why would God be incapable of doing the same? Or in fact doing better?
Because lack of respect is a barrier to proper relationship. As a teacher I address student's lack of respect not because it bothers me, but because it's a barrier to the proper relationship between teacher and student. Shrugging it off is not (always) in the best interests of the person being disrespectful.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.