What's up with all the haters? Part 1

[SavedByGrace3]

If you are not familiar with anything why pretend by commenting?
What good can come from ignorance?
Do you understand that we do not follow Benny Hinn for the majority of our People?
If we did would it be for you to Judge?

Here is the fruit of vanity:

Proverbs: 6. 16. These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17. A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18. An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19. A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

There is this also...

Proverbs 18:13King James Version (KJV)

13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I know for myself I have had to repent for this:
"and he that soweth discord among brethren."
Lord have mercy on me. I repent of this and ask any I have offended to forgive me.
I speak from the heart and humble before God and my Lord Jesus.

 

[Hieronymus]

Good stuff there. But not a word about any "gift of discernment" or "ministry of discernment" that would elevate the individual's discernment to the same level of a Holy Spirit enabled gift or Holy Spirit enabled ministry.

I never claimed such a thing.
But even though there is no Scripture that mentions literally 'a gift of discernment', which in hind sight was perhaps a confusing phrase i chose to use, it come with the Spirit of Truth that opens our eyes when God draws us to Him, or when our eyes are opened to the Truth.
I mean, the faith we have as a whole is a gift from God.
I'm sure you understand what i mean now.

 

[Hieronymus]

If you are not familiar with anything why pretend by commenting?

Who says i'm "not familiar with anything"?

What good can come from ignorance?

I think you could use a good look in the mirror to make sure it's not you who is hating.
And as i suggested earlier, have a look at why your fellow Christians have these doubts about Hinn and folks like him, in stead of taking offence.
It's not hard to understand why folks have doubts about those guys.
I'm not saying you have to agree, that's up to you.

 

[now faith]

You are that man,as well you make a point on grammar
I should have said if you are not familiar with the subject matter.
Here's a pat on the back,and your quote:

I'm not too familiar with the different flavours within WOF, but myexperience is that often WOF and "Kingdom NOW" Christians seemto lack some discernment and do not see the wolf under the sheep'sclothing of folks like Hinn (who basically sells feelings).

Why should I care what you think Hinn is selling?
Does what you are posting have any value at all ,for others reading this thread?
Does it glorify God?
I'm glad you rated my post as funny!
If not for your enjoyment ,no one would be amused

 

[hhodgson]

I'm not too familiar with the different flavours within WOF, but my experience is that often WOF and "Kingdom NOW" Christians seem to lack some discernment and do not see the wolf under the sheep's clothing of folks like Hinn (who basically sells feelings).

Quite the opposite... I commend you for using the word some in your quote that can be compared as a FEW. I am fully WoF but (do not) believe 100% in what SOME... within WOF teach. However, with that being said, I believe that many (not some) in "WOF and Kingdom Now" do have a clearer understanding of spiritual discernment. One of the things that must take place to understand discernment... Or, the other gifts of the Spirit is to move from the "childhood" milk of the Word into "sonship" or discipleship with the meat of the Word while operating in the spiritual gifts. This comes from being grounded in the Word of God and not through experiences.

I think that's why critics use Hinn as an unmistakable example of how bad things can be. It's probably not fair to many WOF-ers though.
my 2 cents

This highlighted part of this quote is very true and actually worth more than (2 cents).[/QUOTE]

 

[Hieronymus]

You are that man,as well you make a point on grammar
I should have said if you are not familiar with the subject matter.
Here's a pat on the back,and your quote:

I'm not too familiar with the different flavours within WOF, but myexperience is that often WOF and "Kingdom NOW" Christians seemto lack some discernment and do not see the wolf under the sheep'sclothing of folks like Hinn (who basically sells feelings).

Why should I care what you think Hinn is selling?

I don't know, you started this topic complaining about it.
It seemed you could use a little explanation or view from a different perspective.

Does what you are posting have any value at all ,for others reading this thread?

Not to you apparently. You're too busy taking offence.

Does it glorify God?

Did you start this topic to glorify God?

 

[Hieronymus]

Quite the opposite... I commend you for using the word some in your quote that can be compared as a FEW.

'Some discernment' is what seems to be missing.
Frankly i suspect it's because people can be blinded by their hunger for signs, wonders and a 'religous power trip'.

I am fully WoF but (do not) believe 100% in what SOME... within WOF teach. However, with that being said, I believe that many (not some) in "WOF and Kingdom Now" do have a clearer understanding of spiritual discernment. One of the things that must take place to understand discernment... Or, the other gifts of the Spirit is to move from the "childhood" milk of the Word into "sonship" or discipleship with the meat of the Word while operating in the spiritual gifts. This comes from being grounded in the Word of God and not through experiences.

Agreed.

This highlighted part of this quote is very true and actually worth more than (2 cents).

Good.​

 

[hhodgson]

Maybe you should read about the many warnings for deception a little more. Or perhaps have a look at why many fellow Christians think Hinn is probably not a Christian or at least where the problems lie.

Hieronymus... The many "fellow Christians" that think Hinn is probably not a Christian are overwhelmingly Word of Faith critics. As Didaskalos said... "Hinn is not a wolf. He does not deny Christ." He apparently is not Word/Faith either. So he's neither wolf or Wof. We must be careful here. Only God sees the heart.

Many of these critics "cross the line" in their pre-judgmentalism and don't seem to see this deception... Nor, the consequences of their actions. Again, in every case, only God sees the heart.

As far as deception, The way to recognize "deception" is NOT to analyze all the false claims (as critics do), but rather to become so familiar with what is genuine that a counterfeit will be easily recognizable. Anyone who is truly grounded in the Word of God will not be deceived.

Or learn how discernment is a gift of God. The eagerness for some sort of religious power trip, sings and wonders often pushes discernment out the window, is how it comes across to me often.

Please take note: Jesus forewarns us in Matthew 24, that false prophets will show great signs and wonders in order to deceive. therefore, when carefully read, the passage states that signs and wonders can be used as tools for deception. In Matthew 12, Jesus warns against seeking after signs and wonders. Indeed, He says that if you do seek after them, you are committing spiritual adultery.

We here, as Word/Faith do not seek signs and wonders... Nor, do we need to... for they (signs and wonders) are following us... and, to those who dares to believe.... regardless of their affiliation.

 

[hhodgson]

(Duplicate)

 

[Hieronymus]

Hieronymus... The many "fellow Christians" that think Hinn is probably not a Christian are overwhelmingly Word of Faith critics.

The question is: WHY would they think that?
What are the reasons for these doubts?
And that's why i suggest people look into it.
You'll find quite a bit of false teachings and rotten fruit there.

As Didaskalos said... "Hinn is not a wolf. He does not deny Christ." He apparently is not Word/Faith either. So he's neither wolf or Wof. We must be careful here. Only God sees the heart.

Of course he doesn't deny Christ, otherwise he wouldn't make money off of the sheep.
Same goes for a guys like Hagin and Copeland.

Many of these critics "cross the line" in their pre-judgmentalism

Could be, but what if it's POST-judgementalism?
What if they try to warn people to not be fooled?
Should they remain silent because people take offense?

 

[hhodgson]

The question is: WHY would they think that? What are the reasons for these doubts? And that's why i suggest people look into it. You'll find quite a bit of false teachings and rotten fruit there.

These critics (the ones who ARE Christian believers) are operating in their own unbelief, and they are unwisely walking in the area of opening the door for Satan to steal, kill, and destroy them as they sit by and judge others. I would suggest that all of us take a good look in the mirror. It works both ways!

Of course he Hinn) doesn't deny Christ, otherwise he wouldn't make money off of the sheep. Same goes for guys like Hagin and Copeland. Could be, but what if it's POST-judgmentalism?

Nice chatting with you Hieronymus... but your comment on Hagin and Copeland went over the line which put you in violation of the rules of this forum. Teaching and debating is not permissible by non-members... Nor, making derogatory comments about our Word/Faith founder and Copeland as highlighted above in your quote.

"Please understand that visitors, guests, and non-members may not teach, or debate here, nor teach/debate against the beliefs of WOF, nor against the leaders/teachers of this group. In the event you wish to challenge and/or debate, then you need to go to the appropriate forum where you may do so, or open a formal debate with someone who you wish to debate a specific issue."

If anyone feels that I have used this thread to end up in debate with a non-member, I do apologize to this forum as it was not my intention.

Hieronymus, Sorry we have to end this now... which should have been implemented earlier. This is my last response. And until... rules are changed, Or modified... there still forum rules. Please have a blessed day.

 

[Hieronymus]

These critics (the ones who ARE Christian believers) are operating in their own unbelief, and they are unwisely walking in the area of opening the door for Satan to steal, kill, and destroy them as they sit by and judge others. I would suggest that all of us take a good look in the mirror. It works both ways!

But that's ad hominem argumentation.

Nice chatting with you Hieronymus... but your comment on Hagin and Copeland went over the line which put you in violation of the rules of this forum. Teaching and debating is not permissible by non-members... Nor, making derogatory comments about our Word/Faith founder and Copeland as highlighted above in your quote.

I didn't realize that.
I didn't know someone other that Jesus or the New Testament was a / the founder of this denomination.

"Please understand that visitors, guests, and non-members may not teach, or debate here, nor teach/debate against the beliefs of WOF, nor against the leaders/teachers of this group. In the event you wish to challenge and/or debate, then you need to go to the appropriate forum where you may do so, or open a formal debate with someone who you wish to debate a specific issue."

Okay, i understand.
Again, i didn't know those guys are considered foundational or leaders.
Sorry.

If anyone feels that I have used this thread to end up in debate with a non-member, I do apologize to this forum as it was not my intention.

Me too.
Had i known what i have learned now, i wouldn't have posted.

Hieronymus, Sorry we have to end this now... which should have been implemented earlier. This is my last response. And until... rules are changed, Or modified... there still forum rules. Please have a blessed day.

You have a blessed day too.

 

[hhodgson]

But that's ad hominem argumentation.I didn't realize that.
I didn't know someone other that Jesus or the New Testament was a / the founder of this denomination.Okay, i understand.
Again, i didn't know those guys are considered foundational or leaders.
Sorry.
Me too.
Had i known what i have learned now, i wouldn't have posted.You have a blessed day too.

Thanks man for understanding. We have a very good Statement of Faith (SOF), but our Statement of Purpose (SOP) as it stands now is inappropriate and needs to be modified by Senior Members of this forum as it should be... as it has been done. Both of our SOF/SOP is stickied at the top of or main forum page for review.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Some of you have been here long enough to remember the creation of the "Charismatic Non Word of Faith" Forum. That is correct. There was a forum that was specifically dedicated to denouncing WoF. I referred to it (and still do) as the "a safe place to attack and insult WoFers." WoFers were not even allowed to defend themselves. They could say just about anything... lies, half truthes, jokes, whatever... and it was totally legal in there. Even mention you individually. You could not respond. Very strange place!
It was and still is the only forum at CF specifically dedicated to attacking other believers. It finally shut down, or rather simple faded away. In the closing months of it's existance there was only 3 or 4 posts made. Unfortunately my sounding out against such hate... and yes there was a lot of hate in there... got me in no small amount of trouble. But you have to stand up against stuff like this. Virtually all of the organizers have moved on. A lot of good WoF people were so hurt that they also moved on and found more loving grounds to be planted and grow. You older folks may remember how active the Charismatic/SF forum used to be just prior to the creation of th CNWOF forum. It pretty much died out and has never really recovered.
If that forum were still alive.. I would refer to it as the ANTIFA of CF. Never could convince them about the difference between being identified with a thing, and being identified as being against a thing. Kind of like the difference between a theist and an atheist.
So, ya...what's up with all the haters???
Nothing new under the sun folks.