What's up with 3am?

[real tree]

Well, you are entitled to your opinion on this one. But it is only opinion.

The Bible does not say, 'when you see the number 3 consistently, take notice that God is speaking.'

I agree with you 100%, if it is not backed by Gods word, it is not fact. No where in the bible does it mention a watches of the night.

 

[real tree]

It is one of the watches of the night - a time for intercession. Jesus died at 3 p.m., and the trinity is "3" and "3" is certainly a significant number all through the Bible - 3 nights in the tomb for Jesus, 3 nights in the belly of the fish for Jonah, 3.5 years of the first half and second half of tribulation (total 7), 3 times Peter received a vision, 3 times he denied Christ, 3 times he reaffirmed his love for Christ, and the list goes on, so when you see the number 3 consistently, take notice that God is speaking.

Also, the USA will be 233 years old in a few days, which could be significant.

Your claims are not backed by Gods word.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

I agree with you 100%, if it is not backed by Gods word, it is not fact. No where in the bible does it mention a watches of the night.

Watches of the night

Matthew 14:25: And in the fourth watch of the night He came to them, walking on the sea.

Mark 6:48 Seeing them straining at the oars, for the wind was against them, at about the fourth watch of the night He came to them, walking on the sea; and He intended to pass by them.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

I agree with you 100%, if it is not backed by Gods word, it is not fact. No where in the bible does it mention a watches of the night.

Ps. 63:6: On my bed I remember you; I think of you through the watches of the night.

Ps. 119:148: My eyes anticipate the night watches, That I may meditate on Your word.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

I agree with you 100%, if it is not backed by Gods word, it is not fact. No where in the bible does it mention a watches of the night.

Lam. 2:19: “Arise, cry aloud in the night At the beginning of the night watches; Pour out your heart like water Before the presence of the Lord; Lift up your hands to Him For the life of your little ones Who are faint because of hunger At the head of every street.”

 

[Christsfreeservant]

I agree with you 100%, if it is not backed by Gods word, it is not fact. No where in the bible does it mention a watches of the night.

Exodus 14:24: During the last watch of the night the Lord looked down from the pillar of fire and cloud at the Egyptian army and threw it into confusion.

1 Samuel 11:11 The next day Saul separated his men into three divisions; during the last watch of the night they broke into the camp of the Ammonites and slaughtered them until the heat of the day. Those who survived were scattered, so that no two of them were left together.

Ps. 90:4: A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.

 

[real tree]

Exodus 14:24: During the last watch of the night the Lord looked down from the pillar of fire and cloud at the Egyptian army and threw it into confusion.

1 Samuel 11:11 The next day Saul separated his men into three divisions; during the last watch of the night they broke into the camp of the Ammonites and slaughtered them until the heat of the day. Those who survived were scattered, so that no two of them were left together.

Ps. 90:4: A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.

. You are using numerology just like the occult uses it. Looking for codes to determine an event is a form of divination. How you try to relate this to waking up at 3 am is nonsense.

 

[real tree]

Lam. 2:19: “Arise, cry aloud in the night At the beginning of the night watches; Pour out your heart like water Before the presence of the Lord; Lift up your hands to Him For the life of your little ones Who are faint because of hunger At the head of every street.”

Exodus 14:24: During the last watch of the night the Lord looked down from the pillar of fire and cloud at the Egyptian army and threw it into confusion.

1 Samuel 11:11 The next day Saul separated his men into three divisions; during the last watch of the night they broke into the camp of the Ammonites and slaughtered them until the heat of the day. Those who survived were scattered, so that no two of them were left together.

Ps. 90:4: A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.

Exodus 14:24: During the last watch of the night the Lord looked down from the pillar of fire and cloud at the Egyptian army and threw it into confusion.

1 Samuel 11:11 The next day Saul separated his men into three divisions; during the last watch of the night they broke into the camp of the Ammonites and slaughtered them until the heat of the day. Those who survived were scattered, so that no two of them were left together.

Ps. 90:4: A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.

No where in the bible does this teach us that this is related to someone waking up at 3 am or how old the earth is. The bible does not terach us to look up secret codes. Your claims are not biblical.

 

[real tree]

Watches of the night

Matthew 14:25: And in the fourth watch of the night He came to them, walking on the sea.

Mark 6:48 Seeing them straining at the oars, for the wind was against them, at about the fourth watch of the night He came to them, walking on the sea; and He intended to pass by them.

Okay I stand corrected on the watch of the night. However this has nothing to do with waking up at 3 am. Where in the bible does it teach us to look up codes hidden in the bible it does not. Your claims still are not biblical. This is numerology which should be avoided.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

. You are using numerology just like the occult uses it. Looking for codes to determine an event is a form of divination. How you try to relate this to waking up at 3 am is nonsense.

Okay I stand corrected on the watch of the night. However this has nothing to do with waking up at 3 am. Where in the bible does it teach us to look up codes hidden in the bible it does not. Your claims still are not biblical. This is numerology which should be avoided.

I was responding to your statement: "No where in the bible does it mention a watches of the night." Thank you for acknowledging that you were not correct in your statement. I gave you 8 scriptures where it speaks of watches of the night.

As far as your other issue is concerned, the post to which you are referring is very old. It was written in July of 2009, which is 8 years ago, and it was in a section on this forum titled "Dreams and Visions." Several years ago CF closed the "Dreams and Visions" forum, and it was read only for several years. Just recently it was reopened, now under the heading "Spiritual Gifts." So, give me time, which I don't have at the moment, to revisit this old post and to see what I wrote, and then to pray about it, and then I will respond to you. I think you may be confusing some of what I said with what others said, so let me have the time to research this and I will get back with you.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Thank you for your replies so far, I really appreciate it. The reason I ask is at slightly before 3am this morning I woke up and saw what seemed to be a black creature walking on all fours (it could also walk on two). It seemed to climb on the bed then on top of me then I couldn't breathe. i started to call out the name of Jesus and it was as if it was trying to close my mouth but I perservered and Spoke the name of Jesus and scripture over and over. I was ok after that (I wasn't scared because God told me ages ago not to fear any evil). But after then I heard almost a voice gentle, but firm, saying "take note of the time". I ignored the first time becuase I was tired and when I couldn't breathe the oxygen supply was limited to the brain so I had a bit of a headache, then I heard it again firm but gentle "take note of the time". It was 3am. I went to sleep, but first thing when I woke up I remembered, so thats why I ask. God Bless.

Now that's interesting because my pastor in the 1970s had much the same experience after a weekend of victory over the powers of darkness in his church. He went to bed and in the middle of the night woke up to see a dark, angry entity come right through his bedroom door and grasp him around his neck. His wife awoke and said she heard his "death rattle". She attacked the demon in the name of Jesus and the demon let him go and departed.

When he told me that story, I must say I slept with one eye open watching the door that night!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

There have been times in the early hours when I have woken up and when I couldn't get back to sleep immediately I have had some wonderful times of fellowship with the Lord. It seems that the quiet hours of the night where there are no distractions are good for getting close to the Lord in prayer.

I don't think that there is anything really significant about that time in the morning. I feel uneasy when the "spirit world" is mentioned, because the New Testament does not speak about such a thing. It seems that the concept comes more from pagan thinking than Christian doctrine. The Christian believer approaches God through faith in His written Word. We have the Holy Spirit living inside of us. We don't have to enter into some sort of "spirit world" because the scripture says that the kingdom of God is within us. God is not limited to times and places, because Jesus told the woman at the well in John 3, that believer will worship God in Spirit and in truth. Therefore, we can come into the presence of God by faith any time of the day or night.

We need to be very careful about believing in "spirit worlds" because the world that one might enter into may be a wrong spirit that might lead to deception and bondage to spirits that are not of God. It was the pagan Greeks who believed in a spirit world running in tandem with our physical world. But there is nowhere in the New Testament which states that there is a spirit world that a Christian believer can enter into.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Okay I stand corrected on the watch of the night. However this has nothing to do with waking up at 3 am. Where in the bible does it teach us to look up codes hidden in the bible it does not. Your claims still are not biblical. This is numerology which should be avoided.

Why did Jesus speak in parables? Why was symbolism used in scripture? Why is the book of Revelation filled with symbols? What is a symbol? Why did the writers of scripture use figurative language?

 

[real tree]

Why did Jesus speak in parables? Why was symbolism used in scripture? Why is the book of Revelation filled with symbols? What is a symbol? Why did the writers of scripture use figurative language?

Bible Numerics: Fact or Fiction?

One day at Calvary Baptist Church in New York City, a friend handed me a little booklet entitled, “Bible Numerics” written by Karl Sabiers. It supposedly “proved” the inspiration of the Bible by finding numeric codes in the Hebrew and Greek text of the Bible.

The author started out by stating that each Hebrew and Greek letter represented a number and that by counting the numeric value of letters we could find hidden meanings in the text that no English reader would ev

This made me a little uneasy because I was studying the cults and the occult under Walter Martin. He had taught me that the Bible is a plain book written by plain people for plain readers. It is not a mystical book written with encrypted esoteric messages which only a few enlightened people can understand. Any interpretation which does not come from a historical and grammatical exegesis is suspect. Thus whenever anyone claimed to find hidden meanings in the Bible, watch out! Sabiers’ claim that there were secret numeric codes in the Bible was immediately suspect in my mind.

I was also studying Hebrew under Rabbi Gold at the American Board of Mission To The Jews located on 72nd St. in New York City. My Hebrew teacher, Rabbi Gold, was a Polish orthodox Jew who had survived a Nazi concentration camp and emigrated to NYC. He had embraced Jesus as the Messiah due to the witness of the American Board of Mission to the Jews.

I asked him about the idea that each Hebrew letter represented a number because he had made us memorize the Hebrew words for numbers. If the letters represented numbers in the Hebrew language, why were there words for these numbers? He told me that it was a lie that Hebrew letters had numeric values. He went on to point out several more flaws in the idea of secret numeric codes in the Bible. With this understanding, I threw away Sabier’s booklet and did not give it any further thought.

Many years later, you can imagine my surprise to hear of a sect of. Jews who had developed an apologetic against Christianity by using “secret numeric codes” supposedly found in the Hebrew text of the Torah. Being curious by nature, I went to New York City and attended the Aish Hatorah Discovery Seminar held during the weekend of April 10, 1994. Rabbis Mechanic, Salomon, and Berger were the instructors.

Our textbook was a book entitled Discovery. When we got to page 87 of this book, the rabbi announced that he was going to refute Christianity by Bible Numerics. He took us to Deut. 29:16 in the Hebrew text (v. 17 in English Bibles).

Moreover, you have seen their abominations and their idols of wood, stone, silver, and gold, which they had with them.

He also quoted Deut. 4:28:

And there you will serve gods, the work of man's hands, wood and stone, which neither see nor hear nor eat nor smell.

The rabbi took the Hebrew word for “wood” and counted the letters backwards and forward 49 times in Deut. 4:28 and came up with the letters which he interpreted to mean “Yeshua,” i.e., Jesus. Thus Jesus was “the idol of wood!” He called this “the code of 49.”

He then used “the code of 50” in Deut. 29:16 and came up with some letters which he also interpreted as a reference to the cross on which Jesus died. He claimed that in both passages there was a secret numeric code, which warned the Jewish people that Jesus was an idol made of wood!

By this time you are probably thinking to yourself, “What in the world are you talking about? Secret numeric codes in the Bible? Jesus is an idol made of wood! You have to be kidding. Only a nut case would believe such nonsense.”

Before you throw this booklet away, you must understand that 100,000 people have attended the Discovery Seminar so far. Their influence in the Jewish community is growing and they are attempting to refute Christianity with Bible Numerics.

I must also point out that several articles have appeared in secular journals, which attempt to prove the inspiration of the Torah by secret numeric codes. Obviously, we will have to deal with this Jewish apologetic now or later. It is not going to go away by itself.

But the real shocker is that there are a few Christian leaders who have fallen for “Bible Numerics” hook, line, and sinker. . In the last year, several prominent Christian leaders have claimed to find secret numeric codes in the Bible. After reading their articles and books, it is obvious that they do not know what they are talking about. They evidently jumped at a “neat idea” to prove the Bible. But they should have looked before they leapt.

In the light of these things, we will examine the system of Biblical interpretation, which is called Bible Numerics or Theomatics.

PART ONE

THE HISTORY OF NUMBERS

In order to understand Bible Numerics we must begin with the history of numbers. Why? We are so familiar with using 1, 2, 3, 4, 25, 100, 1,000, etc., that it will be a surprise to most people to learn that for most of human history such numbers did not exist. If you would have said or written 1, 2, 3, or given simple mathematical equations such as 1+ 1= 2 to the authors of the Bible, they would not have had the slightest idea of what those numbers meant.

Today we refer to these numbers as “Arabic numbers.” This is clearly a mistake in that such numbers as 1, 2, 3, etc. are not part of the Arabic language. While the use of these numbers in Western culture can be traced back to Arab merchants, they did not invent them per se. For example, the number 0 came from India. The plain truth is that Arabs found different numbers being used in different cultures as they traveled around Asia and the Middle East.

These numbers were introduced in Europe in the twelfth century. But it took centuries before they came into common use.

The earliest written records reveal that ancient Middle Eastern cultures such as the Assyrians did not know of numbers. They actually had no concept of abstract numbers. They never discussed numbers in and of themselves in an abstract sense. For example, there was no word for “million” or “billion” in any of the ancient languages.

Any “counting” done in ancient cultures was always done in terms of concrete notations. These notations were based on the idea of a one on one correspondence. For example, they would use a stone to represent a sheep. When they wanted to know how many sheep they had, they pulled out their leather bag and looked to see if there was a correspondence between the stones and the sheep. They would also sometimes cut notches on a wooden staff to correspond to the amount of sheep.

The Babylonians took a pointed stick and made impressions in a tablet of wet clay to represent how many objects they wished to record. The Egyptians used hieroglyphics of animals and other objects to represent amounts. For example, the amount of “one hundred thousand” was represented by the picture of a bird.

Most ancient cultures used their ten fingers to correspond to objects. This is the ultimate basis of our own “base ten” system. But some cultures did not use a base 10 system. For example, the Sumerians used 60 as their base amount.

Since Moses was the first biblical author, it is interesting to note that while he was well

educated in the Egyptian method of keeping track of objects, he never used it in the Pentateuch. Neither did he use the Assyrian, Hittite, or Babylonian systems in the Torah.

The Jews in Moses’ day had words to correspond to the amount of things. These words were treated like any other Hebrew word.


one =. ehed.


two = senayim.


three = salos.


four = arabaa.


five = hames


six = ses.


seven = seba.


eight = smoneh.


nine = tesa.


ten = eser.


hundred = meah.


thousand = eleph.


ten thousand = rebabah


When we write a check today, on the second line we write out the amount in words instead of Arabic numbers. While the Ancient Hebrews had words to correspond to things, they did not have any numbers. For example, in the Genesis account of Creation, Moses gives us a record of what God did on “day one,” “day two,” “day three,” etc.

When Moses wanted to record large amounts, he would write it out word for word. For example, while we would write 930 in Arabic numbers, Moses would write “nine hundred and thirty” (Gen. 5:5). The Hebrew word which represented the highest amount recorded in the Old Testament was ten thousand. That is as high as the Hebrew language went.

What about such numbers as “million” or “billion”? Did these ancient cultures have the concept of such large numbers? No. They could only conceive of an amount that was sitting in front of them. They had no concept of such abstract concepts as million, billion, trillion or zillion.

The concept of “million” was actually invented by an Italian banker 600 years ago when he ran out of words to represent the amount of money in his bank. The concept of a “billion” was invented by a French banker in 1500. Such words as trillion and zillion are also of recent origin. They represent modern advances in abstract mathematics.

Did the biblical authors ever run out of words to express the amount of things? Yes. When Joseph tried to keep track of how much he had stored up during the seven good years, Gen. 41:49 says that he eventually ran out of words to express it. The Egyptians even had a hieroglyphic of a man throwing up his hands in despair to represent an amount for which they did not have a word.

Did the biblical authors ever use the letters of the Hebrew alphabet to represent numbers? No. They used words for amounts, not numbers.

If this is so, was it possible for them to write numeric codes in the Bible using the letters of the Hebrew alphabet for numbers? No. They could not do so because they did not know of numbers. The first documented time the Jews used letters to represent numbers was on some Maccabean coins minted around 200 BC.

Did the authors of the New Testament ever use the letters of the Greek alphabet to represent numbers? No. Was it even possible for them to place hidden numeric codes in their writings? No.

The New Testament followed the Old Testament in using words instead of numbers: one = eis, two = duo, three = treis, etc. Even in Rev. 13:18 the “mark of the beast” is written out in the Greek words, “six hundred sixty-six.”

The historical facts are clear that it was simply not possible for Moses, the prophets or the apostles to use numeric codes in their writings. There is no simply archeological or literary evidence that the pre-exilic Jews ever used the letters of the Hebrew alphabet to represent numbers.

Did Jesus or the apostles ever use numeric codes to interpret the Old Testament? No. Did the early Church Fathers use numeric codes in their interpretation of the Bible? No. Did Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin, the Puritans, the Pilgrims, or the great evangelical preachers of the past used numeric codes to interpret the Bible? No.

We must conclude that the use of secret numeric codes to interpret the Bible did not come from historic Christian hermeneutics. We will have to look elsewhere to find its origin.

The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia has an excellent article on this subject written by our good friend, Dr. William White. His statement concerning the attempt to find numeric codes in the Bible bears repeating.

Unfortunately the frequent use of notions of symbolism applied to the Biblical numbers have resulted in little less than soothsaying... Most of these types of exegetical systems have been based upon the assumption that the later Jewish system of replacing each number 1-9, 1-10, with the sequential letters of the Heb. alphabet was practiced throughout the Biblical period. Thus, any term in the MT can be deciphered into a code of numbers. For example, the consonantal text of Genesis 1:1 begins with br’syt which is deciphered in terms of numerals as b = 2, r = 200, ‘ = 1, s = 300, y = 10 and t = 400, thus the first word of Genesis equals to the total of these numbers or 913 which is then interpreted mystically. This sort of magical nonsense arose during the Hel age and was applied to many other ancient writings under the term “germatria,” a corruption from Semiticized “geomatria.” Such gnostic exegesis contradicts the clear Biblical principle stated in 2 Peter 1:20, “that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation.” (Vol. 4:460)

Dr. White has sounded a strong warning to all those who believe in secret numeric codes in the Bible. They are swimming in the dangerous waters of a gnostic hermeneutic which has already spawned far too many cults.

source
Faith Defenders - Bible Numerics: Fact or Fiction?

 

[Darkhorse]

Hello everyone, just a quick question: Is there anything significant in the spirit world about the time 3am? thank you

I find the time between 4am - 5am to be the most spiritually "active".

My mom was a nurse, and frequently worked shifts through the night. She confirmed this time interval as being important.

Without going into detail, she and all her kids have a degree of "spiritual awareness" that many people don't...

 

[Christsfreeservant]

@real tree - Well, I can see why you feel the way you do. I have no knowledge of anything you shared here. I am a simple woman called of God to teach the Bible, which is what I do every day - look in the devotions section and you will see me sharing what the Lord Jesus teaches me from my time with him in his Word each day.

Yet, there is much symbolism in scripture, and there are patterns in numbers, and some of that does mean something. God is very methodical. Look at his instructions for how to build the temple. And, he does use numbers as symbols, sometimes, as well as words. Yet, this is not something we go searching for, but it is something we will see just as we read the Word. Patterns in numbers is just something that naturally jumps out at me. And so maybe I see them when other people don't, but if you read the Bible through, i.e. book by book and chapter by chapter and verse by verse over and over again you see repetitions and you see patterns. At least, I do.

But the stuff you have studied and are talking about is way over my head and way out of my league. Daily I just pray for understanding of God's Word and ask the Holy Spirit to teach me. And, when I come across passages of scripture with symbols, I pray for understanding. I don't understand them all.

Anyway, I read this article yesterday, I think, and I think it expresses it quite well. This is NOT an endorsement of this site nor is it an agreement with everything said, but I do believe the author here made some very good points. What is the biblical significance of the number seven/7?