Whats the point in Life, why does God punish?

[Birthew]

God created the devil and hell

He created man who sins by nature

He punishes man for sin, that man cannot help

knowledge of god and jesus is essentially to being allowed into heaven

yet there is so much that prevents people from learning (other religions/culture/isolation)

No matter what religion is right, the majority of humans are not worshiping the correct God. (lets assume Christianity is the real one and you need to worship Jesus to be allowed into heaven.) I think 2billion people are christian in the world. So that leaves 4 billions people going into hell every 60-80 years.

God knew this would happen as he is infallible. Billions upon billions of souls suffering for eternity.

Whats was the point.

God set man up to suffer, plain and simple as if he created a way in which everyone could appreciate him and learn about him then nobody would be worshiping other things.

 

[xNIHILISTx]

God created the devil and hell

God created Lucifer the angel who turned against God.

He created man who sins by nature

God created man without sin but Eve betrayed God and now everyone is born into original sin.

He punishes man for sin, that man cannot help

Repent and your sins will be forgiven

knowledge of god and jesus is essentially to being allowed into heaven

This is up for debate.

No matter what religion is right, the majority of humans are not worshiping the correct God. (lets assume Christianity is the real one and you need to worship Jesus to be allowed into heaven.) I think 2billion people are christian in the world. So that leaves 4 billions people going into hell every 60-80 years.

It is their fault for not accepting the true gospel.

I don't really believe any of the stuff I just wrote. Just preparing you for some answers you may hear from Christians.

 

[GarrickBrewer]

The previous poster was right for the most part, i just want to reiterate:
God created the devil and hell
God created the Angel Lucifer, who rebeled against God with 1/3 of the angels and was thrown into hell
He created man who sins by nature
Man was created perfect, as we were created in God's image, however when eve and adam ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil we were corrupted and became capable of sin.
He punishes man for sin, that man cannot help
That is why he sent Jesus to die on the cross. John 3:16 : And God so loved the wworld that he gave his only begoten son, so that whoever beleives in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life" If you ambrace Jesus, you wont be punished.
knowledge of god and jesus is essentially to being allowed into heaven
Mere knowledge is not enough, you have to embrace jesus with all your heart mind and soul, thank him evry day for his sacrifice on the cross, he died so you wouldnt go to hell.


No matter what religion is right, the majority of humans are not worshiping the correct God. (lets assume Christianity is the real one and you need to worship Jesus to be allowed into heaven.) I think 2billion people are christian in the world. So that leaves 4 billions people going into hell every 60-80 years.
That is correct and that is why Christians place great emphasis on missionaries, and evangelaism, because we do not want to see those people go to hell, jesus told us to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every people of evry nation, because he died so EVRYONE could have a chance to go to heaven instead of hell.

 

[drich0150]

God created the devil and hell

Yes, but know The Devil is not the "god" of Hell. He is sent their with everyone else who doesn't want to be with God.

He created man who sins by nature

And what is sin? Sin is defined by the bible as anything not in the expressed will of God. So in other words sin is the ability to choose. God Plan for us or our own path.

He punishes man for sin, that man cannot help

He simply hold men accountable for the choices they have made.

knowledge of god and Jesus is essentially to being allowed into heaven

Not true. It takes more than simple knowledge or even a pledge of allegiance according to Christ's own words in Mt.7

yet there is so much that prevents people from learning (other religions/culture/isolation)

Again religion in of itself is not a saving Grace. There will be many who claim to be christian who will be lost to hell.

No matter what religion is right, the majority of humans are not worshiping the correct God. (lets assume Christianity is the real one and you need to worship Jesus to be allowed into heaven.) I think 2billion people are christian in the world. So that leaves 4 billions people going into hell every 60-80 years.

There is not "right religion." Man's efforts to earn his way into heaven has little to nothing to do with biblically defined righteousness. Christianity is indeed the purest and easiest way to find God, but it is also the easiest way to dilute God's gospel, and create or worship your own sense of righteousness. Just because someone wears the title of a "christian" doesn't make him one. God has more of a say as to who wears this honor than we do.

God knew this would happen as he is infallible. Billions upon billions of souls suffering for eternity.

Indeed.

Whats was the point.

Choice. He did not want anyone to be in heaven that did not want to be with Him.

God set man up to suffer, plain and simple as if he created a way in which everyone could appreciate him and learn about him then nobody would be worshiping other things.

Yes... So? If you and your wife had a child what would be the reason? In the end whatever your reason, it can be trivialized just as easily as you have trivialized creation, given the proper perspectives.

 

[elopez]

God created the devil and hell

God created the angel Lucifer who rebelled and thus became what we call the 'devil.' Hell was created for that rebellious angel who fell and those other angels who rebelled with him.

He created man who sins by nature

I disagree. God created man originally innocent, which means that man was without sin. Adam and Eve were ignorant of sin in the experiential sense. We sin by nature, yes, but God did not create us in the same fashion as He did with A&E.

He punishes man for sin, that man cannot help

Sin is essentially moral evil. What moral evil is man not able to help himself from engaging in? I understand that some people are mentally ill and are genuinely not aware of their actions, but that's not the case for everybody.

Some people murder simply because they want to or for some reason.

knowledge of god and jesus is essentially to being allowed into heaven

It depends on how you are defining "knowledge." Even then I don't think knowledge is all it takes, as actually following Jesus is essential as well.

yet there is so much that prevents people from learning (other religions/culture/isolation)

This is true in some cases, but for the most part those of varying religions have indispensable ways to obtain knowledge of other religions and cultures.

No matter what religion is right, the majority of humans are not worshiping the correct God. (lets assume Christianity is the real one and you need to worship Jesus to be allowed into heaven.) I think 2billion people are christian in the world. So that leaves 4 billions people going into hell every 60-80 years.

I would say that there are religious falsehoods concerning the nature of God and as such those people are more than likely worshiping the wrong Deity (assuming they worship). I believe this is the case within Christendom itself, as well.

God knew this would happen as he is infallible. Billions upon billions of souls suffering for eternity.

What's your point? God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ezekiel 18:23).

Whats was the point.

God set man up to suffer, plain and simple as if he created a way in which everyone could appreciate him and learn about him then nobody would be worshiping other things.

Well, I always thought you could make your own point, live within your own private fortress and rule as you please. That leaves minimal room for our active role in society and the human race all together, though. I believe the point is to help our fellow man.

God could have set up the world in such a way that His existence is known to all, yet I highly doubt that would negate some of humanity from worshiping other things. My point is that even if God did reveal His existence in an empirical manner to everyone on earth or in one location or whatever, not everyone would then continue to believe in God's existence. Take an example from the birther issue.

 

[GabrielMyAngel]

If someone rejects the gospel for what ever personal reason, they are rejecting him. If they have never had access to it, be it no missionaries, were stillborn, aborted, etc. then it's another matter, and it requires some deeper dialog upon, as to how he decides. I'll put it in short form without going off on tangents. He's able to look outside of the time line, he's able to analyze the what if's in the process, and even a life cut short, he's able to fill in the gaps and pieces as to where their choice will tend to go. Example being, I have a pet that bites everybody, it's been trained later on in life and no longer bites anymore, I have as a human being, the understanding, that if this animal that bites now, will not bite later, if it's exposed to this training, not to put it down, or keep it caged up for it's life. God's is far beyond this, but at least you get an idea as to why, and that not all of these people that have never had a chance to be directly exposed to the gospel, are going to hell. It's written that even the savages will, through their own heart, come to know Christ, and be saved, in a sense, without any external exposure to the gospels or any Christian influence.

The thing is, I've looked into the eyes of those of different faiths, and saw a spark in their eyes, knowing they really wanted to know Christ, and perhaps, they were just getting ready to, but could not due to the harsh influences in their lives, which prevented it. So, even those that "practice" outside faiths, having in private made dialog with God along their intentions could also be saved even though they haven't technically left their current faiths. His grace is that big, is all I'm saying.

My own personal experience, I was baptized with the Holy Spirit, many years before I was baptized with water from the institutional church. There were no people to perform that task, no ceremony, not even knowledge that it was possible, but clearly it happened. Same difference in this regard.

The Devil is indeed, not God, but he desired to not only control God, he wanted to be above God. What does the nature of man do, ... he wants God on his terms "control", he wants to be above God "justification of ones actions", it's me myself and I that matter before God.

We aren't compatable with God, if this is what we embrace, it's like trying to push together opposing magnetic fields, they will always repel each other. The result, separate corners.

Hell, itself and eternal punishment is his justice in action. Someone harms you, or your loved ones and get's away unpunished, you are going to have an issue with the justice of that one aren't you? They nature of man, we tend to forget the past sufferings and we move on. That person that was harmed, or killed, they don't get to move on, they have to live with that, or their loss of life, so justice itself was not served after-all was it? In Hell, it doesn't end, justice is always being served, all the time, for eternity. There is no, finally got past it and get to recover time, there is no get to move on past that and go about ones business, leaving all of that completely behind unabated. If it was the latter, then it would no longer be justice any more would it.

Bottom line, he was serious when he said vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord, you really, really don't know how terrible it ultimately is., sometimes seen on this world, always seen on the next and it's for eternity there...

 

[Ave Maria]

God would not be a just God if He did not discipline His children and punish those who die in a state of mortal sin with Hell.

 

[Soothfish]

The previous poster was right for the most part, i just want to reiterate:
God created the devil and hell
God created the Angel Lucifer, who rebeled against God with 1/3 of the angels and was thrown into hell
He created man who sins by nature
Man was created perfect, as we were created in God's image, however when eve and adam ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil we were corrupted and became capable of sin.
He punishes man for sin, that man cannot help
That is why he sent Jesus to die on the cross. John 3:16 : And God so loved the wworld that he gave his only begoten son, so that whoever beleives in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life" If you ambrace Jesus, you wont be punished.
knowledge of god and jesus is essentially to being allowed into heaven
Mere knowledge is not enough, you have to embrace jesus with all your heart mind and soul, thank him evry day for his sacrifice on the cross, he died so you wouldnt go to hell.


No matter what religion is right, the majority of humans are not worshiping the correct God. (lets assume Christianity is the real one and you need to worship Jesus to be allowed into heaven.) I think 2billion people are christian in the world. So that leaves 4 billions people going into hell every 60-80 years.
That is correct and that is why Christians place great emphasis on missionaries, and evangelaism, because we do not want to see those people go to hell, jesus told us to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every people of evry nation, because he died so EVRYONE could have a chance to go to heaven instead of hell.

I think that the single most evil thing anyone can ever do is conceive a human life. There is a such a high probability that the person will end up in hell. If they don't exist in the first place then it wouldn't matter if that's one less person going to heaven. That person wouldn't care anyway. However, an existing person has a strong chance of going to hell if he/she is a "spiritual fool".

I read a story a while back of an 8 year old girl who was raised by atheists, was bullied in school, and hanged herself to death. According to all scripture she will be burning in hell forever.

I refuse to hate God because he is the only way out of total nihilism. However, I am not grateful for anything. This reality is a nightmare. A horrible sick joke played on us all. How are so many of us supposed to get right with Christ when even scripture acknowledges the random horrors of this world? When we can never be certain that we or anyone else has the necessary relationship with Christ needed to get into heaven?

As you can well expect, I am totally crippled by a lasting grief and untreatable depression. Anyone who realizes that they are part of a gigantic mistake is in the same state.

 

[GabrielMyAngel]

I think that the single most evil thing anyone can ever do is conceive a human life. There is a such a high probability that the person will end up in hell. If they don't exist in the first place then it wouldn't matter if that's one less person going to heaven. That person wouldn't care anyway. However, an existing person has a strong chance of going to hell if he/she is a "spiritual fool".

I read a story a while back of an 8 year old girl who was raised by atheists, was bullied in school, and hanged herself to death. According to all scripture she will be burning in hell forever.

I refuse to hate God because he is the only way out of total nihilism. However, I am not grateful for anything. This reality is a nightmare. A horrible sick joke played on us all. How are so many of us supposed to get right with Christ when even scripture acknowledges the random horrors of this world? When we can never be certain that we or anyone else has the necessary relationship with Christ needed to get into heaven?

As you can well expect, I am totally crippled by a lasting grief and untreatable depression. Anyone who realizes that they are part of a gigantic mistake is in the same state.

To start out, I know the dark pit of depression well, and I also know there is a process to escape it. It's a process, no amount of words can be explained to you to fix it, it also requires you to participate within it. So, yes, I understand the chemical structures you are facing, in tact, and how they are reaking havvoc on your ability to think most logically.

Life is only a brief whisper compared to eternity, and it's not about "us", individually, it's us collectively, and indeed, our own personal relationship with God is unique, to each and every one of us, it's also real and something we choose out of our own free will. That is what makes it genuine. Doing so out of fear of reprisal is coerced Love, and that is not genuine. You also are putting yourself at risk for opening up and offering that love, and it places you in a vulnerable spot. I know God loves you, and he has your best interest in mind, in all things. He tells us we are not residents of this world, and thank him for that, for we know all to well how cold and empty it is.

All we have is the moment, so make the best of it, if it's suffering, then offer it up to him polarizing your prayers in the process. Also know, I stand on the other side of that pit you are in, and there is absolutely no going back, and friend, it was not some occasional, light weight, down in the dumps blues, it was quite severe and it lasted for many, many years. There is a way out, and perhaps this is the one glimmer of hope and tidbit of advice that you need. We'll discuss more on these matters if you want, but I'd prefer it not be on a public forum.

 

[Soothfish]

To start out, I know the dark pit of depression well, and I also know there is a process to escape it. It's a process, no amount of words can be explained to you to fix it, it also requires you to participate within it. So, yes, I understand the chemical structures you are facing, in tact, and how they are reaking havvoc on your ability to think most logically.

Life is only a brief whisper compared to eternity, and it's not about "us", individually, it's us collectively, and indeed, our own personal relationship with God is unique, to each and every one of us, it's also real and something we choose out of our own free will. That is what makes it genuine. Doing so out of fear of reprisal is coerced Love, and that is not genuine. You also are putting yourself at risk for opening up and offering that love, and it places you in a vulnerable spot. I know God loves you, and he has your best interest in mind, in all things. He tells us we are not residents of this world, and thank him for that, for we know all to well how cold and empty it is.

All we have is the moment, so make the best of it, if it's suffering, then offer it up to him polarizing your prayers in the process. Also know, I stand on the other side of that pit you are in, and there is absolutely no going back, and friend, it was not some occasional, light weight, down in the dumps blues, it was quite severe and it lasted for many, many years. There is a way out, and perhaps this is the one glimmer of hope and tidbit of advice that you need. We'll discuss more on these matters if you want, but I'd prefer it not be on a public forum.

A private message is fine. No offense, but I don't expect anything to change. It's hard for me to even imagine the kind of miracle that would change my worldview. It doesn't exist even in my wildest dreams. While awake I see absolutely nothing but a random, chaotic, and desolate universe.

 

[GabrielMyAngel]

A private message is fine. No offense, but I don't expect anything to change. It's hard for me to even imagine the kind of miracle that would change my worldview. It doesn't exist even in my wildest dreams. While awake I see absolutely nothing but a random, chaotic, and desolate universe.

I'll bounce you a PM, share what I have, and if you apply it, I expect you to help someone out in the same spot you are at some day, ok? I've helped many people out of their depression, but it's a two way street, you are going to have to take some action yourself and have a little faith that the Lord is the one in the lead, not me, not you.

 

[Birthew]

God knew this would happen as he is infallible. Billions upon billions of souls suffering for eternity.
​

Indeed.

Why?

 

[GarrickBrewer]

Why?

Dont blame God, blame the serpent for tricking eve, and blame adam for loving eve more than he loved God. Ever since that day man has made its own choices that lead to suffering and pain and death. God created us in a place were we could live forever in peace with no sickness and only love and joy, and we chose to leave it. It s not Gods fault for our suffering, but our own.

 

[GabrielMyAngel]

It's the cup half full, or half empty scenereo. Life is precious, all of it, and a single chance to add to his kingdom, is better then none. There will be many lost in the process, but many gained as well.

 

[Birthew]

Dont blame God, blame the serpent for tricking eve, and blame adam for loving eve more than he loved God. Ever since that day man has made its own choices that lead to suffering and pain and death. God created us in a place were we could live forever in peace with no sickness and only love and joy, and we chose to leave it. It s not Gods fault for our suffering, but our own.

I didn't choose it.

If God knew all this suffering was going to happen why go through with it, or create us this way.

 

[GA777]

Pain is a necessary way in justice.And hell isnt what most people think it to be.

 

[Birthew]

Pain is a necessary way in justice.And hell isnt what most people think it to be.

What is it? And why must we suffer because of someone else's decision

 

[GA777]

Hell has different levels.It can be an eternal life without god, and not necessarily in a lake of fire for example. But in both, no joy would be there and you'll be filled with sadness for lots of time.Those who deserve the lake of fire will go there, probably demons only. And there's a death in the eternal life too.
And the more someone sins, the more the penalty gets tough.

My information is mostly from the bible, and a little is brought from some valid appearances and vision which have already happened (Fustina).

 

[Soothfish]

Dont blame God, blame the serpent for tricking eve, and blame adam for loving eve more than he loved God. Ever since that day man has made its own choices that lead to suffering and pain and death. God created us in a place were we could live forever in peace with no sickness and only love and joy, and we chose to leave it. It s not Gods fault for our suffering, but our own.

Could it be that God actually does make mistakes? People don't just magically turn away or deny God. Even "free will" has to have some sort of cause. There are physiological factors as well. A person with low intellectual ability in certain creative areas is also far less likely to be interested in spiritual things. Many are not even capable of understanding the concept of worship...or even love.

So wouldn't it be safe to say that God actually hates most of humanity and that Christ only died to save the small minority who were capable of appreciating and understanding the things of God? I'm not attacking God but that's how it seems to me.

 

[GA777]

Could it be that God actually does make mistakes? People don't just magically turn away or deny God. Even "free will" has to have some sort of cause. There are physiological factors as well. A person with low intellectual ability in certain creative areas is also far less likely to be interested in spiritual things. Many are not even capable of understanding the concept of worship...or even love.

So wouldn't it be safe to say that God actually hates most of humanity and that Christ only died to save the small minority who were capable of appreciating and understanding the things of God? I'm not attacking God but that's how it seems to me.

God does no mistakes.He's omni
People turn away or deny God because of their own selfishness and pride and because most of all,they lack "love".
And everyone will be judged according to what he was given here on earth.If he was given a lot, he must return with a lot.If he was given a little, he must return with a little at least. So dont worry about disabilities.

God loves everyone here more than you can imagine, Christ died for all of us, but the problem is that "WE" arent returning his favour for his great sacrifice. There's nothing more he can do, he shed his blood for sinners who deserve nothing in order for them to be saved and have an eternal life. And it's not about someone's capability but about will. It is 100% humans mistake. And there's not only a small saved minority, but a lot more than that.God's mercy is great.And it requires a little to get saved.But the more you do, the better someone's state would be in heaven.