What's The Matter?

[Skaloop]

What evidence do you cite that shows it is subjectively seen in life forms?

The fact that some people see design in life forms and some people don't. That makes it subjective. For instance, I don't see design. You do. Pretty much the description of subjective. There are some life forms that are objectively designed; show dogs, for example. Corn, bananas, apples; things that humans have had input on to develop into their current states. That can be design. But largely, no, lifeforms are not objectively designed.

(Also, I updated my previous reply, so please revisit it if you want)

 

[bhsmte]

The fact that some people see design in life forms and some people don't. That makes it subjective. For instance, I don't see design. You do. Pretty much the description of subjective. There are some life forms that are objectively designed; show dogs, for example. Corn, bananas, apples; things that humans have had input on to develop into their current states. That can be design. But largely, no, lifeforms are not objectively designed.

(Also, I updated my previous reply, so please revisit it if you want)

Correct, if design existed objectively, there would be an objective test to determine if it was present.

The fact no one can come up with one, is telling.

A physician can take a look at someone and state; you appear healthy. After running blood work (an objective test), they may determine the person actually has significant disease.

Do we then just stick with the appearance and state this person is healthy?

 

[Loudmouth]

How can something be subjective when it is objectively present in life forms?

You haven't shown that it is objective. That would require an objective method for measuring design, a unit of measure, and a statistical test to analyse the data for false positives. Where are these things?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Because design is not objectively present in life forms (or many other things). It's subjectively present in life forms (or many other things).

Is this a product of design?

Is this a product of design?

Is this designed:

Is this?

 

[Oncedeceived]

You haven't shown that it is objective. That would require an objective method for measuring design, a unit of measure, and a statistical test to analyse the data for false positives. Where are these things?

How do you determine the design that is apparent in life forms is an illusion if it is not present objectively in life forms?

 

[Loudmouth]

Is this designed

You are the one claiming they are designed. It is up to you to show us the scientific evidence.

 

[Loudmouth]

How do you determine the design that is apparent in life forms is an illusion if it is not present objectively in life forms?

Once again, you are shifting the burden of proof. It is up to you to provide positive evidence for design.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Once again, you are shifting the burden of proof. It is up to you to provide positive evidence for design.

I'll vouch for it (the flagellum motor). It's definitely designed.

 

[Oncedeceived]

The fact that some people see design in life forms and some people don't.

I think that comes from who has studied the features and functions of the organisms and understand the design similarities of those and human like designs. Can you quote one microbiologist or biologist that does not agree that these functions, structures, and features appear to be designed for a purpose?

That makes it subjective. For instance, I don't see design. You do. Pretty much the description of subjective. There are some life forms that are objectively designed; show dogs, for example. Corn, bananas, apples; things that humans have had input on to develop into their current states. That can be design. But largely, no, lifeforms are not objectively designed.

You don't see the similarity between molecular machines and human design...why not? What makes you feel the bacterial flagellum shows no design but we see something so similar design in the rotor system in a helicopter?

(Also, I updated my previous reply, so please revisit it if you want)

Responded.

 

[Loudmouth]

I'll vouch for it (the flagellum motor). It's definitely designed.

Vouching for something is not evidence. Where is the scientific evidence?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

How do you determine the design that is apparent in life forms is an illusion if it is not present objectively in life forms?

As evolution is not universally accepted is it not just another subjective belief?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Vouching for something is not evidence. Where is the scientific evidence?

That is a pretty elaborate contraption. That it was designed is obvious. No fancy scientific formula needed.

 

[Oncedeceived]

You haven't shown that it is objective. That would require an objective method for measuring design, a unit of measure, and a statistical test to analyse the data for false positives. Where are these things?

We have objective evidence that this exists in the Bacteria:

And objective evidence that this is designed:

Appearance of the design of the BF is nearly the same as the design we see in the human designed rotor system. That is objective evidence that the BF appears to be designed for a purpose as we can see the same design in the rotor system.

 

[Oncedeceived]

As evolution is not universally accepted is it not just another subjective belief?

In some cases I would totally think so.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Once again, you are shifting the burden of proof. It is up to you to provide positive evidence for design.

See my last post.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

There are some life forms that are objectively designed; show dogs, for example.

So you can take someone who has never seen a German shepherd or a wolf, and ask them which was designed and which evolved naturally, they would be able to make that distinction?

 

[Oncedeceived]

So you can take someone who has never seen a German shepherd or a wolf, and ask them which was designed and which evolved naturally, they would be able to make that distinction?

Good point.

 

[Oncedeceived]

I'll vouch for it (the flagellum motor). It's definitely designed.

 

[bhsmte]

So you can take someone who has never seen a German shepherd or a wolf, and ask them which was designed and which evolved naturally, they would be able to make that distinction?

How would you go about determining whether an animal you had never seen before, was designed or naturally evolved that way?

 

[Oncedeceived]

https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer#molecularmachines

More designs. Couldn't get the images to post but look at molecular machines.