What's the difference?

Adammi · Aug 17, 2007

I read many things labeled a "prophetic word" here and I would simply call it an inspirational thought about God/scripture. Where do we draw the line between a prophetic word and an inspirational thought? Why do we throw around the phrase "prophetic word" like we do? No one has a problem with inspirational thoughts. If we didn't have to get all particular in calling things "prophetic words", then we wouldn't have polls and wikis and controversies.
Those who do not think that prophetic words should be allowed on the forum (like myself) most certainly do NOT want for inspirational thoughts to cease. I am simply tired of having to fancy things up by calling them fancy names. I've often heard that a true sign of a Prophet or Apostle is that they do not insist on being called such. If that it is true (which it may not be), then wouldn't it also be true that a prophetic word should not insist on being called such?

ARBITER01 · Aug 17, 2007

There is no such thing as a prophetic word.

Tamara224 · Aug 17, 2007

I agree with you Adammi.

I think one obvious and simple thing has been overlooked in a lot of these fights about what is or is not a prophetic word...

The actual definition of the word "prophecy."

Some have argued that it is defined by a certain passage of Scripture.

Unfortunately, though, the Bible isn't a dictionary. It doesn't define words for us. The authors assumed the readers already knew what the words meant - just as I am assuming that everyone reading this knows the definition of the words I am using.

The definition of the word prophecy (or propheteia - the Greek word found in the NT which we translate to prophecy), according to Biblical scholars, is:

a discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring the purposes of God, whether by reproving and admonishing the wicked, or comforting the afflicted, or revealing things hidden; esp. by foretelling future events
Used in the NT of the utterance of OT prophets
of the prediction of events relating to Christ's kingdom and its speedy triumph, together with the consolations and admonitions pertaining to it, the spirit of prophecy, the divine mind, to which the prophetic faculty is due
of the endowment and speech of the Christian teachers called prophets
the gifts and utterances of these prophets, esp. of the predictions of the works of which, set apart to teach the gospel, will accomplish for the kingdom of Christ

http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=4394

Heck, even the English definition of the English word as:

1. the foretelling or prediction of what is to come. 2.something that is declared by a prophet, esp. a divinely inspired prediction, instruction, or exhortation. 3.a divinely inspired utterance or revelation: oracular prophecies. 4.the action, function, or faculty of a prophet.

IMO, the only distinguishing feature of a prophecy is whether or not it inspired by God. It can be predictive, it might not be. It is for the purpose of exhorting, rebuking, correcting, edifying, etc (as Paul told us) but those things are not the definition of prophecy... they are the purpose of prophecy.

The definition is "a divinely inspired utterance." So, if God gave a person something to say, then it's a prophecy.

Any other "rules" for what does or does not make something prophetic, imo, is simply arbitrary man-made restrictions on what kind of thing God can or will say to people through a prophet.

And just because something is inspirational or edifies another... doesn't make it prophecy.

JMHO.

millerrod · Aug 17, 2007

sorry for the double post !!

millerrod · Aug 17, 2007

We have our own thoughts and we have the Holy Spirits words. If we speak words or write words that are not our own but are words from the Holy Spirit then i consider that prophetic because it sure isnt my words.
If a man or woman delivers words that carry truth and edify the heart and are not their own but the Holy Spirits i believe this is prophecy because it is God inspired words. Right or wrong that is my thoughts and i believe many others believe this as well from their interpertation of Gods word.
I personally find it a slap in the face to God if someonem delivers inspired words from God and chooses to not give the credit to God. they are Gods words why take credit for the words he has inspired you to deliver. Peace and Love Rod

ARBITER01 · Aug 17, 2007

The only definition of the gift of prophecy is located in 1 Corinthians 14:3,..

3 (ASV) But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men edification, and {1} exhortation, and consolation. {1) Or comfort}

If someone starts speaking currect information or futuristic things, they have left the gift of prophecy and stepped into another gift.

It is an inspirational gift, not a revelational gift. The gifts of revelation are the word of wisdom, the gift of knowledge, and the discerning of sprits.

Tamara224 · Aug 17, 2007

ARBITER01 said:
The only definition of the gift of prophecy is located in 1 Corinthians 14:3,..

If someone starts speaking currect information or futuristic things, they have left the gift of prophecy and stepped into another gift.

It is an inspirational gift, not a revelational gift. The gifts of revelation are the word of wisdom, the gift of knowledge, and the discerning of sprits.

We all know your opinion on this by now Dave. But, IMO, you're wrong, very wrong.

The Bible never tells us that prophecy is NOT predictive. It calls people prophets who predicted the future.

And, 1 Corinthians 14:3 doesn't define prophecy... It explains the purpose of prophecy in the body of Christ... That is not a definition. [Maybe you should look up the word "define"...]

IMO, words of wisdom, knowledge and discerning are all under the umbrella of "prophecy". Because prophecy simply means "inspired by God" - all of those things being inspired by God, they are like subsets under the 'prophecy' section.

The Bible does not say that a person cannot prophesy and give a word of wisdom at the same time. So, there's no "leaving" one gift to go to another.

And the Bible doesn't contradict me on that. The Bible doesn't go anywhere near giving it such a lengthy explanation. It merely mentions these things.

IMHO, you're making and trying to enforce rules where God didn't and that's always a dangerous thing.

ARBITER01 · Aug 17, 2007

Tamara224 said:
We all know your opinion on this by now Dave. But, IMO, you're wrong, very wrong.

The Bible never tells us that prophecy is NOT predictive. It calls people prophets who predicted the future.

And, 1 Corinthians 14:3 doesn't define prophecy... It explains the purpose of prophecy in the body of Christ... That is not a definition. [Maybe you should look up the word "define"...]

IMO, words of wisdom, knowledge and discerning are all under the umbrella of "prophecy". Because prophecy simply means "inspired by God" - all of those things being inspired by God, they are like subsets under the 'prophecy' section.

The Bible does not say that a person cannot prophesy and give a word of wisdom at the same time. So, there's no "leaving" one gift to go to another.

And the Bible doesn't contradict me on that. The Bible doesn't go anywhere near giving it such a lengthy explanation. It merely mentions these things.

IMHO, you're making and trying to enforce rules where God didn't and that's always a dangerous thing.

The bible is clear on it, and you need to start disciplining yourself to adhere to it and The Holy Spirit instead of wanting a grey area to explore with GOD's gifts.

There are certain guidelines established by The Holy Spirit for these gifts, and every single one of us must be careful we are not giving glory to ourselves instead of GOD.

With wide encompassing definitions like you promote, that are completely unscriptural, is it any wonder that we had people barking and clucking in church's?

Tamara224 · Aug 17, 2007

ARBITER01 said:
The bible is clear on it, and you need to start disciplining yourself to adhere to it and The Holy Spirit instead of wanting a grey area to explore with GOD's gifts.

The Bible doesn't say what you say it says. You are wrong. This has nothing to do with you having more discipline than me or me wanting gray areas.

I know you want to believe you can't be wrong about anything, Dave, but that's just not the case. Right now, your arrogance is making you unteachable.

There are certain guidelines established by The Holy Spirit for these gifts, and every single one of us must be careful we are not giving glory to ourselves instead of GOD.

Yes, you should be very careful. God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.

The "guidelines" that you claim are in the Bible, aren't actually there. You are, imo, reading into the text something that is not there.

With wide encompassing definitions like you promote, that are completely unscriptural, is it any wonder that we had people barking and clucking in church's?

Whatever Dave. Your lack of logic astounds me.

I didn't give it a "wide encompassing definition" I gave it the true definition. You really should buy yourself a dictionary, or go to www.dictionary.com and look up the word "definition".

You constantly claim others are being "unscriptural" yet when they post Scripture, you ignore it. Plus you've unilaterally (and unscripturally) ruled out any mention of prophecy in the OT to determine what the Bible teaches about prophecy. I'm sorry, but you're never going to come to the right conclusion if you arbitrarily rule out more than half of God's full counsel.

You have yet to establish - from Scripture - that the OT definitions no longer apply in the NT.

The NT says that ALL Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. Yet you have made the OT Scriptures obsolete for no good reason.

This may be news to you, Dave, but "because I said so" is not good enough reason for us to believe you are correct.

As for me, I will take the full counsel of God on this subject and presume that when Paul talked of prophecy, he referred to the same thing that happened in the OT. (Because he never said otherwise).

ARBITER01 · Aug 17, 2007

Hey, you can join the great crowd of renegades who wish to hear what they want to hear, if you desire, but there is a discipline and following The Lord and doing HIS will, and not our own.

The definition I presented is concise and completely scriptural. If people want to be confused on here, they can give heed to your liberal grey-area definition. Let them seek The Holy Spirit over it and follow accordingly.

Tamara224 · Aug 17, 2007

ARBITER01 said:
Hey, you can join the great crowd of renegades who wish to hear what they want to hear, if you desire, but there is a discipline and following The Lord and doing HIS will, and not our own.

Then be disciplined and offer Biblical support for your claims.

Study to show yourself approved...a workman correctly dividing the word of truth.

The definition I presented is concise and completely scriptural. If people want to be confused on here, they can give heed to your liberal grey-area definition. Let them seek The Holy Spirit over it and follow accordingly.

Just because you say "it is Scriptural" doesn't mean it is.

I'm calling you out on this, Dave. If you can't back it up, then you should shut it up.

You've claimed numerous times that the OT model isn't our model. I want Scriptural proof for that claim. I think there are a lot of other people on this board who would like to see you start practicing what you're preaching.

Back it up with Scripture, or shut up. Denigrating your brothers and sisters and these constant arrogant claims of superior spirituality are, frankly, disgusting. You've been called on them over and over again in the past few days.

The mouths of more than two or three witnesses are testifying against you for your arrogance, condescension and spiritual pride.

God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.

Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.

JEBrady · Aug 17, 2007

Adammi said:
I read many things labeled a "prophetic word" here and I would simply call it an inspirational thought about God/scripture. Where do we draw the line between a prophetic word and an inspirational thought? Why do we throw around the phrase "prophetic word" like we do? No one has a problem with inspirational thoughts. If we didn't have to get all particular in calling things "prophetic words", then we wouldn't have polls and wikis and controversies.
Those who do not think that prophetic words should be allowed on the forum (like myself) most certainly do NOT want for inspirational thoughts to cease. I am simply tired of having to fancy things up by calling them fancy names. I've often heard that a true sign of a Prophet or Apostle is that they do not insist on being called such. If that it is true (which it may not be), then wouldn't it also be true that a prophetic word should not insist on being called such?

I agree completely. Glad to know of others who see it this way.

ARBITER01 · Aug 17, 2007

Tamara224 said:
Then be disciplined and offer Biblical support for your claims.

Study to show yourself approved...a workman correctly dividing the word of truth.

Just because you say "it is Scriptural" doesn't mean it is.

I'm calling you out on this, Dave. If you can't back it up, then you should shut it up.

You've claimed numerous times that the OT model isn't our model. I want Scriptural proof for that claim. I think there are a lot of other people on this board who would like to see you start practicing what you're preaching.

Back it up with Scripture, or shut up. Denigrating your brothers and sisters and these constant arrogant claims of superior spirituality are, frankly, disgusting. You've been called on them over and over again in the past few days.

The mouths of more than two or three witnesses are testifying against you for your arrogance, condescension and spiritual pride.

God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.

Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.

Ok, let's do it. Take a look at this passage here,..

18 (ASV) for thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: this hast thou said truly.

What gift is in operation?

Tamara224 · Aug 17, 2007

ARBITER01 said:
Ok, let's do it. Take a look at this passage here,..

What gift is in operation?

Dave... Read more slowly. I didn't ask for you to quiz me on something. I'm asking you to provide proof from Scripture for your claims.

I'll repost:

Tamara224 said:
You've claimed numerous times that the OT model isn't our model. I want Scriptural proof for that claim.

Try to keep up.

ARBITER01 · Aug 17, 2007

Tamara224 said:
Dave... Read more slowly. I didn't ask for you to quiz me on something. I'm asking you to provide proof from Scripture for your claims.

I'll repost:

Try to keep up.

Provide a quote from me and the context.

And you haven't answered my question yet.

Tamara224 · Aug 17, 2007

ARBITER01 said:
Provide a quote from me and the context.

And you haven't answered my question yet.

Oh for crying out loud, Dave. You're being impossible on purpose because you've know you can't provide the proof for your claims.

Fine, if you don't believe that the OT isn't our model, then just say so and I won't claim you said that. And I'll move forward to providing evidence of prophecy from the OT.

But you do believe that we can't look to the OT for a definition of "prophecy" don't you?

And I won't answer your question until you've answered mine. I'm not going to take a quiz from you where you lambast me when I answer with a different answer than the one you want.

You will either show yourself approved, or you won't.

You are making claims, you support them.

ARBITER01 · Aug 17, 2007

Tamara224 said:
Oh for crying out loud, Dave. You're being impossible on purpose because you've know you can't provide the proof for your claims.

Fine, if you don't believe that the OT isn't our model, then just say so and I won't claim you said that. And I'll move forward to providing evidence of prophecy from the OT.

But you do believe that we can't look to the OT for a definition of "prophecy" don't you?

And I won't answer your question until you've answered mine. I'm not going to take a quiz from you where you lambast me when I answer with a different answer than the one you want.

You will either show yourself approved, or you won't.

You are making claims, you support them.

Is there a definition of the gift of prophecy in the OT? If so provide it here for us, I haven't found it.

The only definition of the gift of prophecy is listed in our NT over in 1 Cor 14:3,..

3 (ASV) But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men edification, and {1} exhortation, and consolation. {1) Or comfort}

JEBrady · Aug 17, 2007

ARBITER01 said:
The bible is clear on it, and you need to start disciplining yourself to adhere to it and The Holy Spirit instead of wanting a grey area to explore with GOD's gifts.

There are certain guidelines established by The Holy Spirit for these gifts, and every single one of us must be careful we are not giving glory to ourselves instead of GOD.

With wide encompassing definitions like you promote, that are completely unscriptural, is it any wonder that we had people barking and clucking in church's?

Now you've got me curious. What do you think the nature of the prophesying was referred to in these scriptures from Paul to Timothy? Was it limited to edification, exhortation and comfort or was there something more involved in it?

14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare; 19 Holding faith, and a good conscience;

Also, does not the scripture say that one can be taught by prophecy as well:

31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

And might not even judgment come by way of prophecy, conviction, and secrets be revealed, as it says here:

24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
The Holy Bible : King James Version. 1995 . Logos Research Systems, Inc.: Oak Harbor, WA

And the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, is it not called prophecy, and yet is entirely predictive and not limited to edification, exhortation and comfort:

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

And John, when the angel gave him the little book, do you think this NT prophet would be by any stretch speaking edification, exhortation or comfort from the little book he ate in this scripture, from which he would be prophesying?

10 And I took the little book out of the angels hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. 11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

The Holy Bible : King James Version. 1995 . Logos Research Systems, Inc.: Oak Harbor, WA

Tamara224 · Aug 17, 2007

ARBITER01 said:
Is there a definition of the gift of prophecy in the OT? If so provide it here for us, I haven't found it.

The only definition of the gift of prophecy is listed in our NT over in 1 Cor 14:3,..

Nice dance. But I'm not budging. Answer the question.

Let me make it easier for you:

Admit or Deny: "I believe that the OT model of prophecy is no longer in effect for NT believers."

One word answer: either "admit" or "deny".

Your answer will determine whether I provide anything from the OT or not. I'm not going to waste my time if all you're going to do is say "well, that's the OT, it doesn't count."

And, once again, 1 Corinthians 14 doesn't "define" anything. I'll make that easier for you too...follow this link to the definition of "define": http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=define&db=*

mourningdove~ · Aug 17, 2007

millerrod said:
We have our own thoughts and we have the Holy Spirits words. If we speak words or write words that are not our own but are words from the Holy Spirit then i consider that prophetic because it sure isnt my words.

This is my belief also.

There are some who have the gift of prophecy -foreknowledge of things to come, often world events, etc. - that speak prophetic words.

But one does not have to have the gift of prophecy (foreknowledge of things to come) to speak 'prophetic words' ... words inspired by the Holy Spirit.

What's the difference?

A Nicene Christian not in CF's Xians Only Club

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