what's the difference in Pentecostals not WoF

[Debbi]

What is the difference in Pentecostal churches? Don't talk about Word of Faith churches, that was discussed on other posts. I go to a Church of God (Cleveland, TN) church. What is the difference in it and United Pentecostals, Assemblies of God, Signs Following (serpent handlers), Jesus Only and other pentecostals. There are alot of things that people agree or disagree with in these too. Any comments?

 

[victoryword]

What is the difference in Pentecostal churches? Don't talk about Word of Faith churches, that was discussed on other posts. I go to a Church of God (Cleveland, TN) church. What is the difference in it and United Pentecostals, Assemblies of God, Signs Following (serpent handlers), Jesus Only and other pentecostals. There are alot of things that people agree or disagree with in these too. Any comments?

Debbie

I'll attempt to take a shot at this.

From what I see from the writings of classic Pentecostals such as Mrs. C. Nuzum, Lillian B. Yeomans, the sermons of Smith Wigglesworth and other early Faith-Cure, Holiness, and Pentecostal pioneers is that most of the WoF preachers believe in the CLASSICAL Pentecostal message. Many denominations such as the Assemblies of God and some others have attempted to make themselves more acceptable to the Evangelical community in the past several decades and therefore they do not emphasize certain classic Pentecostal teachings as strongly as their predecessors.

For example, the AoG has an official position paper on "positive confession" in which they dispute the with the Word-Faith teaching on the subject. Yet, if one were to read older holiness and classic Pentecostal literature they would see that this position paper is much opposed to their beginnings.

Those in the early Four Square church taught on things like propsperity and God's willingness to heal. These days so many Pentecostals shy away from it and others are attempting to intellectualize it. For the most part it seems to be in their statement of faith and it is an official belief but they rarely teach it in their pulpits and people usually have no faith for it.

Some Faith Teachers do take some of these things to dangerous extremes and I do not agree with the extremes. Hagin was much more balanced in his teaching than most. But then, Hagin was a classic Pentecostal influenced by Wigglesworth, Yeomans, and Nuzum. Nevertheless, I'll still take a Creflo Dollar, a Kenneth Copeland, and a Jerry Savelle any day over some of the dead religious beliefs I find in most churches.

In conclusion, I have found that there are many people in Pentecostal denominations who accept the Word-Faith teachings and teachers.

 

[Bayhawks83]

United Pentecostals, jesus only, and your church - church of God in christ, are not considered christian acording to this forum because they dont believe in the trinity.

 

[victoryword]

United Pentecostals, jesus only, and your church - church of God in christ, are not considered christian acording to this forum because they dont believe in the trinity.

Church of God in Christ is trinitarian. You must have them confused with another denomination.

 

[Bayhawks83]

i meant Church of God

 

[TheScottsMen]

I think you ment the older World Wide Church of God which was under Herbert Armstrong, and they did not hold the trinity doctrine but after the Old Armstrong died and the son (Garner ted Armstrong) was kicked out they accepted it.

 

[Debbi]

Hey, I go to the Church of God (Cleveland, Tennessee) and they definitely believe in the Trinity. But I know people who are Jesus only and they accepted Jesus as their saviour and beleive they are christians. I used to go to an Assembly of God church that very much was into the prosperity teachings. The pastor got too controlling and I got broke ribs in a deliverance service and later left that church. At one time A/G didn't believe grace was enough when someone asked God to forgive them, they had to do works too. The C/G has a different belief about grace. but they were worse about dress codes too. UPC still has the strict dress code thing and they baptize in Jesus' name. I live in an area that there are churches that handle snakes, but I never been to one, we just got joked at when peo-ple thought that all country pentecostal churches handle snakes and drink stricknine.

 

[RevKidd]

Hey, I go to the Church of God (Cleveland, Tennessee) and they definitely believe in the Trinity. But I know people who are Jesus only and they accepted Jesus as their saviour and beleive they are christians. I used to go to an Assembly of God church that very much was into the prosperity teachings. The pastor got too controlling and I got broke ribs in a deliverance service and later left that church. At one time A/G didn't believe grace was enough when someone asked God to forgive them, they had to do works too. The C/G has a different belief about grace. but they were worse about dress codes too. UPC still has the strict dress code thing and they baptize in Jesus' name. I live in an area that there are churches that handle snakes, but I never been to one, we just got joked at when peo-ple thought that all country pentecostal churches handle snakes and drink stricknine.

Hi Debbie,

I am a fellow Church of God (Cleveland TN) member as well.

Having been brought up in the UPCI I can give you a little synopsis of what they believe. The biggest difference is in their plan of salvation which is a 3 step process.

In order to be saved first you must repent for the remission of your sins.

Second, you have to be baptized in the name of "JESUS" only. Father, Son and Holy Spirit, don't count.

Third, they believe that you have to speak in tongues in order to be saved.

You don't have to do all these steps in this exact order, but they believe that this is what you have to do to be saved. No questions asked. So yes, your friends doctrine teaches that, Methodist, Presbyterian, Luthern, Baptist and even yourself and the church of God, AOG are not saved. If they tell you different then they are not UPCI, have changed their doctrine, or they are not telling you the truth.

I don't know why they are so hung up on the term "trinity". They believe in God (father), they believe in Jesus Christ the Son and that He is God, they also believe in the Holy Spirit/Ghost. Trinity, is just a term to describe God and how he has manifested himself. UPCI teaches that we believe in 3 God's. Why I don't know. I have tried to explain this a million times to people that I love dearly and they continue to be stubborn about it.

God Bless

 

[Twig]

I too go to A Church Of God ( our home church being in Cleveland tennessee ). Actually this is my second one. I was saved in a Church of God while trying to undestand what someone was saying while speaking in tongues. (a friend had taken me down front to talk to her about it) It was an amazing gift given to me. I had prayed the sinners prayer many time but never felt savedin my heart. As soon as I went through the prayer in church being led by the woman who was speaking in tongues. I learen that night that when saying that I would forgive everyone I had to include myself which was something that I had never been able to do. I was abused as a child and held myself accountable for every abuse that came after me because I could not stop it when it was happening to me.
The first church was layed back and everyone was told that you could lay hands on people and heal them if you were saved. I was also told that I could speak in tongues if I wanted to. I tried to do this but soon found out that at least for me this was not true. When I tried to do it on my own just sounded like gibberish with no meaning, forced and fake. However I was Blessed by The Holy Spirit one evening and I just started speaking in tongues automatically.
I'm very sorry, I think I got way off the subject. I not only believe in the Trinity; I "know" it's true.
God - The Father
God - The Son
God - The Holy Spirit.
The Father loved me so much that He sent His son Jesus (Himself in human form) to die on the cross to wash away my sins so that I can have eternal live with Him. the Holy Spirit (Himself in Spirit) now resides inside of me guiding and teaching me. I am a child of God and a continual work in progress. I give God all the power, glory, love and respect. Albeit I fall way short most of the time. I know that God looks deeper than the outside shell he looks into our hearts and loves me warts and all.
Go with Grace, Twig

 

[MarcusDaSharkus]

The UPCI believes that the doctrine of the Oneness of God in the same manner as do the Jews. Since the apostolic church and as a result every other christian church is founded upon what the Old Testament says any contradiction to that is false. As a member of the UPC, I don't judge whether or not someone is saved. That's not my call, I just try to live my life and tell others according to what God has shown me. So if someone in the UPC says that Methodists, or the AoG or some other group is not saved they're wrong in doing so. The reverse is also true. Salvation is an individual thing, not a church affiliation thing. Example: those that believed what Peter the Apostle preached and were saved, weren't saved because of what Peter taught. They were saved because what Peter taught was truth.

A couple notes: Col 3:17...whatsoever ye do in word or in deed, do all in the name of Jesus.

I don't know a christian who prays in the name of the father, son and Holy ghost. So according to Col 3:17 everything you do should be done in the name of Jesus. Let's not get carried away here people. I don't mean that you should wash your car in the name of Jesus. But clearly there is some importance placed on this. John 3 tells us that no man shall see heaven unless he is born of water and spirit, right? So baptism is not just a extra step. This is bible...ya know the infallible word of God, complete, unerring, profitable for reproof, doctrine, correction etc. So if you're to be baptized and you're to do all things in the name of Jesus, does that exclude baptism? In my mind, a definitive no.

How bout Acts 4:12? That's pretty plain to me. Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is none name, under heaven, given among men, whereby we must be saved.

I realize these aren't complete dissertations, but I hope it will cause people to take a fresh look. I take one often...because one thing that bothers me about the last days church...all of us.. is that we tend be somewhat pharaseeical in our approach. I'm right, you're wrong kind of thing. I lose nothing if you don't believe the Mighty God in Christ message if it is the truth. I lose everything if I don't believe the Trinity and it is truth. The converse is true for Trinitarians. Take another look, ask God to direct you. That's pretty benign, no agenda there. The pure in heart, the pure in heart.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I think you ment the older World Wide Church of God which was under Herbert Armstrong, and they did not hold the trinity doctrine but after the Old Armstrong died and the son (Garner ted Armstrong) was kicked out they accepted it.

Quite so. My wife was born and raised Church of God. She attended Northwest Bible College in ND back in the 70s... which was a COG college. They most definately believe in the trinity.

 

[lorilou]

I'm a UPC member (former Southern Baptist). We do believe repentance, baptism in Jesus’ name, and the baptism of the Holy Ghost are all essential to salvation. We are Oneness and do not accept the Trinity doctrine, but having come out of a Trinitarian church into Oneness, there are so many misunderstandings from both parties. When I converted, I discovered that Oneness was exactly what I'd always believed when I called myself Trinitarian. We do believe that there are three characteristics of God (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) represented in the body of Jesus Christ. Call it "Jesus only" but "For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" -Colossians 2:9. The scriptures used to support the Trinity are the same ones we use to support Oneness. A lot of Trinitarians think Oneness denies the existence of 3 beings in the Godhead and a lot of Oneness think Trinitarians believe in 3 seperate God's. The reason we reject the Trinity is because it originated from the Catholic church whom we have no part of, (we baptism in Jesus name only) and it has created so much confusion over time. Ask 10 Trinitarians, all from seperate denominations what their definition of the Trinity is...ask them to explain it and I guarantee it will be different. I’ve witnessed that in this very forum! Example...My idea of it was always 3 seperate manifestations of one God and when we get to heaven we would see one God...on one throne. My father (Southern Baptist Trinitarian) believes in 3 seperate persons, all equally God and three thrones in heaven. To object..."And immediately I was in the spirit (John); and behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne." -Revelation 4:2 Just trying to shed a little insight. By doing our homework, hopefully Trinitarians and Oneness can learn more about each other before stereotyping, ya know?

I won’t go into the baptism of the Holy Ghost b/c most all charismatics believe strongly that one should receive it, so I’ll try to explain our baptism beliefs.

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved..." Mark 16:15

"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God" John 3:5

"...and He COMMANDED them to be baptized..." Acts 10:48

"...arise, and be baptized, and WASH AWAY THY SINS..." Acts 22:16

"Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the Name of Jesus Christ (for church membership? No--) FOR THE REMISSION (forgiveness) OF SINS..." Acts 2:38

We must confess with our mouth and ask for forgiveness in repentance, but we must also have our sins remitted in a watery grave of baptism with the power of His name applied!
Trinity formula is Matt. 28:19 "...in the NAME of the Father/Son/Holy Ghost". This isn't a typo...Jesus is the NAME! He was giving his disciples an instruction which they obeyed in every scripture in Acts where they baptized...they used the name of Jesus! You'll never see them in Acts saying "I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost." And historically, the early church always baptized in the name of Jesus until the development of the Trinity by the Roman Catholic church at the council of Nicea. (Canney Encyclopedia and Dictionary of the Bible by James Hastings)
I don't know your denomination but ask any Catholic in a position of authority...they think we are their wayward children. One reason? Because they think all Protestants are Trinitarian and use their Trinitarian baptismal formula. The UPC and other Oneness Apostolics can stand and declare that we are not simply watered down Catholics...we have no part of their doctrine! I'm not trying to slam the Catholics, but it rubs me the wrong way to have another denomination tell me I am basically their unsaved child that has strayed from Mother.
Jesus wasn’t causing confusion in Matt. 28:19, He was proving His deity as the "Name" of these three titles. You see His disciples baptizing in "Jesus name" exclusively in Acts and we don't believe they were in "error". Some will say they'll take the words of Jesus over those of Peter but why take one over the other?They compliment each other. Jesus said to baptize in "the name of..." and they did as they were told. Besides, He gave Peter the keys to the kingdom, so why would Peter's words not be valid? All have a formula! Most denom. all baptize to show the person is a believer but ALSO to join a church. My dad was a Methodist who converted to Baptist and he had to be re-baptized to join the Baptist church. The UPC baptizes for the remission of sins as the Bible teaches, not for denominational membership.

God alone is the judge of mankind and he can save anyone he chooses! (Thief on the cross...etc.) But it is up to us to search the scriptures and OBEY them!
The UPC doesn’t "play God" with someone else's salvation but we can follow the Bible as closely as possible. As the old saying goes "to whom much is given...much is required". I have access to the Bible, and have studied it...He requires more of me than the starving Ethiopian who's never heard of Him. The perfect and sinless Jesus was baptized...this ought to prove something there w/out quoting the first scripture. Why are there thousands of Christian denominations? Because we all disagree on exactly what is right or on how to be saved. The UPC has its doctrines on these issues just like everyone else.
But we are all taught about the power in Jesus' name. We do everything else in His name...pray, cast out devils, lay hands on the sick, etc. so it would only seem logical that we would also baptize in His name. Not to mention the scripture references in Acts. Also, I. Cor. 1:12-15--it says "was Paul divided, was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?" The speaker was making the point that Jesus was the one who did all this and who's name they were baptized in.

My personal opinion as to why we (UPC/Holiness) receive so much slander is b/c we look different than everyone else. When people look totally different it’s like they’re sometimes this target. It’s fine w/me that I look different b/c wherever I go, most people KNOW before I say a word, exactly what I am. I’m not saying that this is the only thing that should prove a Christian…of course we must be more “holy” on the inside. If I wear skirts to the floor and have hair to my ankles and I’m a bitter, judgemental, self-righteous, unloving person, the way I dress is all in vain.
Sorry this was so long!

 

[J.A.I]

I am Pentecostal and we believe in the Trinity as well.

 

[Jim B]

United Pentecostals, jesus only, and your church - church of God in christ, are not considered christian acording to this forum because they dont believe in the trinity.

Church of God in Christ believers do not believe in the doctrine of the Trintiy?

Are you sure?

If so, this is news to me since they claim to be Trintiarian (see http://www.cogic.org/believe.htm).

\o/

 

[pentecostal girl]

What is the difference in Pentecostal churches? Don't talk about Word of Faith churches, that was discussed on other posts. I go to a Church of God (Cleveland, TN) church. What is the difference in it and United Pentecostals, Assemblies of God, Signs Following (serpent handlers), Jesus Only and other pentecostals. There are alot of things that people agree or disagree with in these too. Any comments?

If you don't mind me asking what church do you go to? I used to live in Cleveland TN and I went to North Cleveland Church of God. I 'm sure you have heard of it, it's huge.

 

[pentecostal girl]

Debbie,
In order to answer your question, I need to know what type of Pentecostals are you talking about. There are many different branches of Pent. CoG is a Pentecostal, AoG is Pentecostal, UPC is Pentecostal, etc. What specific type of church are you talking about? Many Blessings

 

[crystalpc]

What is the difference in Pentecostal churches? Don't talk about Word of Faith churches, that was discussed on other posts. I go to a Church of God (Cleveland, TN) church. What is the difference in it and United Pentecostals, Assemblies of God, Signs Following (serpent handlers), Jesus Only and other pentecostals. There are alot of things that people agree or disagree with in these too. Any comments?

Ok, I was saved in a Church of God (Cleveland assembly) I currently go to an Assembly of God wof. The only difference I see is the growth of the church. We use to think that the Assembly of God's were worldly. We had stricter dress codes etc.

 

[Marissa]

The reason we reject the Trinity is because it originated from the Catholic church whom we have no part of, (we baptism in Jesus name only) and it has created so much confusion over time.

I don't know your denomination but ask any Catholic in a position of authority...they think we are their wayward children. One reason? Because they think all Protestants are Trinitarian and use their Trinitarian baptismal formula. The UPC and other Oneness Apostolics can stand and declare that we are not simply watered down Catholics...we have no part of their doctrine! I'm not trying to slam the Catholics, but it rubs me the wrong way to have another denomination tell me I am basically their unsaved child that has strayed from Mother. [/quote]

What about truth? I'm uncommitted on oneness/trinity, but I certainly won't choose oneness simply because of what the Catolic church will think of me. I care what God thinks of me, not the Pope.

 

[lorilou]

What about truth? I'm uncommitted on oneness/trinity, but I certainly won't choose oneness simply because of what the Catolic church will think of me. I care what God thinks of me, not the Pope.

I shouldn't have listed that reason first. Certainly it's not the most important issue. God's opinion is what matters. My point was that Catholics truly believe that all trinitarian churches are just their lost children and in the end we will hopefully all come back to the "truth". Oneness churches can say that they're set apart, that was all I was saying. The point is, that particular church decided to create a man-made name for the Godhead to better explain it. But instead of explaining it better, it has just caused confusion b/c everyone claims to know what the "real" trinity is and they all swear by the nicene creed but in reality it's very vague. When the UPC formed it decided not to accept it b/c of the "God in three PERSONS" issue. This is the main reason we don't follow the trinity. We believe God reveals Himself in three forms--of course He does, but we DO NOT believe that there are 3 in heaven. I think this is the main debate.

...there are three that bear record in heaven,the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and THESE THREE ARE ONE." I John 5:7

Yet people will label us a cult because we denounce the sacred trinity and people on this forum have told me I'm not truly a Christian, etc. when in REALITY, there are millions of trinitarians who actually believe more like oneness but have never even examined it. (I'm an example--ex-Baptist trinitarian who actually believed like oneness all along) I've seen trinitarians debate in this forum and some of the things written were exactly what oneness believes! catch that? they were "debating" things in the trinity. it means something different to everyone! this would be our 2nd reason for not following it. i'm not condemning trinitarians yet they don't seem to have a problem doing it to me in CF.

 

[LynneClomina]

who was Jesus praying to in this verse? Himself?

John 17:1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should F92 give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. .........

Jesus can't be the Father in the flesh. Jesus and the Father are obviously separate somehow.