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That is garbage stuff, and not Bible.
I understand that you agree with me in part but I don't understand what exactly you're saying that I said is not the doctrine of the word of God.Though some of what you write I agree with, this is not the doctrine of the Word of God.
It is Adam who is made in the image of God who was to come [Genesis 1:26 -28; Romans 5:14]: and made in the very bodily image indeed of God the Word, who is come in the same likeness of human being flesh that Adam was created in in the beginning -Romans 5:14.
It is the Adam spirit addressed as having been in Eden, and mocked in the Adam person king of Tyrus [the Hebrew says he is an Adam] and is guilty of the sin of the Adam father, in the same one Adam spirit, and who is a descendent of Nimrod, with whom God holds a controversy, still, in his descendents.
God has controversies to settle, and He will settle every one of them and no one will escape who does not repent of the sins of their fathers against God and of their own sins against God -that is Bible doctrine and is why we are all born dead in the one Adam spirit, and so, must be born again in the One Living Spirit of Christ to enter into Paradise above where our first father got cast down and out of at the fall..
Nimrod is the Adam who thought in his heart to ascend above the stars of heaven and set his throne above.
God still has controversy over that, and all controversies will be settled in the descendents of every rebel against God, beginning with the first controversy that got us cast down and out of Eden, from the Paradise of God above, when we were still just the seed in the loins of our first father who would all come forth in our pre-ordained season, boundaried by our pre-ordained days as it is written for us in the Book of Life.
God is mocking the Adam spirit in that passage, and the person in Adam who exalts himself to be "god" who will be brought down to Sheol as an Adam person, and "no god".
Lucifer is not Satan and the word is not a proper noun, in the passage...I understand that you agree with me in part but I don't understand what exactly you're saying that I said is not the doctrine of the word of God.
Just so that you understand what I said, or didn't say. I didn't say Lucifer was created with the image of God. Me saying he was created as the most beautiful is not the samething. Just look at Eze. chapter 28 and how he is discribed.
Ezekiel 28:12, Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, thus saith the Lord God; thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
I believe that this Lucifer and Satan are one and the same, so to do a whole lot of other people, along with the vast majority of biblical scholars. For you to say that it is not the doctrine of the word of God is your opinion but I hope you understand that your opinion is in the minority.Lucifer is not Satan and the word is not a proper noun, in the passage...
If you look closely, Ezekiel 28 starts out talking about the prince of Tyrus, not the king. Tyrus was not the mans name but the city in which the prince held authority, a name is never given.also, Tyrus is an Adam person, as the Hebrew language in that passage states, and Satan was never an Adam person.
The Isaiah 14 passages are prophetic, they talk about the down fall of this son of the morning when Jesus Christ comes back for the second time. Read the Book of Revelation, Satan is thrown in hell, into the pit, just like Isaiah has prophesied.Satan was never cast out of heaven as to having no more authority over the earth from the heavens; but binding and casting down of satanic strongholds over persons or nations or families is an ongoing doctrine of the Gospel, in that we take back in Christ -in His name and by His authority- what was granted to the satans, legally, by the curses over men, families, and nations, which sin brings.
Yes please, type it out, I want to read it.Two cents:
I like practical, real world examples ... and I believe I have seen an entity named "Lucifer". Based on my experiences with it, I believe this "Lucifer" is linked directly to Christianity, at least in the US. It was not one and the same as "Satan". My interaction with it was violent, and physical --- as in, in the physical world, not through a person, etc. It was like something out of a movie. There was also an "angel" involved ... a physical one. I even have a name for the angel.
I don't mind typing out a post, with the details, for scrutiny and examination, you can rip into it with scripture if you like, etc .. so that the reader could draw their own conclusions ... but I'd rather save the time and effort of a tl/dr if no one would care to hear it or read about it. So if anyone would like to hear the account, since it could be evidence on this topic, let me know and I'll type it out.
Interesting. In what setting have you mostly seen these demons name themselves "Lucifer" ? Also what I saw and experienced was not through a human being, but separate from one. Have you seen an autonomous entity manifest in some fashion and name itself Lucifer ?I have seen it happen many times that a demon speaking through a person being delivered [/B]will name itself "lucifer" -as well as many other names that apply to the type of oppression they are controlling the person with: like lust; anger; mental; fear; hate; murder; witchcraft; depression; suicide and so on and so forth...
I would agree with this, for the most part.There are demons that will use any name that means to strike fear or superstition in the humans they are tormenting.
They "take on names" that are not their own given names from the time they were born as nephillim, but based on the character they are oppressing the demonized persons with.
If a person believes that Lucifer is a proper name -which it is not, in the Word- and they fear the devil's influence over them, or the devil is trying to make them fear; then the demons or the satan trying to rule by fear will lie and use a name like "Lucifer".
Okay then Ill try to include important details, and I can include even more if necessary, because I dont mind it being scrutinized. Ill include the hard facts, but also some of the debatable I could be wrong on the meaning stuff as well, to give the full context:Yes please, type it out, I want to read it.
If you have read my last post though you will see that I don't really believe that "Lucifer" was ever his name. The word was added to the text much much latter after Isaiah was written. But wow, yeah, I'm very interested in hearing your story.
No, and none would, because I would not believe them.I'm assuming you were somewhat responding to my own post, and that you weren't really interested in hearing my own account ...
Interesting. In what setting have you mostly seen these demons name themselves "Lucifer" ? Also what I saw and experienced was not through a human being, but separate from one. Have you seen an autonomous entity manifest in some fashion and name itself Lucifer ?
I would agree with this, for the most part.
I believe that this Lucifer and Satan are one and the same, so to do a whole lot of other people, along with the vast majority of biblical scholars. For you to say that it is not the doctrine of the word of God is your opinion but I hope you understand that your opinion is in the minority.
The word "Lucifer" was added to the text much latter on, the original author of Isaiah did not write Lucifer in the passage, in fact the word is of Latin origin, not Hebrew in which was the language that the Book of Isaiah was written. You trying to debate about the word Lucifer is a red herring, a moot point, it means nothing, the author didn't write it.
Isaiah 14:12, How art thou fallen from heaven, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
If you look closely, Ezekiel 28 starts out talking about the prince of Tyrus, not the king. Tyrus was not the mans name but the city in which the prince held authority, a name is never given.
In Ezekiel 28:11 the author changes things up and starts talking about the king of Tyrus, a non-person. In the following verses what the author says about this being cannot be said about any human person. In verse 13 the author discribes the being as having been in the Garden of Eden, every precious stone was his covering, and all these stones were prepared for him the very day he was created.
In verse 14 the author calls him the anointed cherub that covers, and that he was upon the mountain of God and walked in the midst of the stones of fire, a direct discription of the place where the throne of God sits in heaven. He was a cherub, that means an angel, not a man, not an Adam person. The list goes on, none of these things can possibly be discribing a human being no matter how much one wants to say it is.
The Isaiah 14 passages are prophetic, they talk about the down fall of this son of the morning when Jesus Christ comes back for the second time. Read the Book of Revelation, Satan is thrown in hell, into the pit, just like Isaiah has prophesied.
In Ezekiel 28 you have the author first talking about a real earthly prince, he then switches it up to talk about the power behind the prince's thrown and prophesy against him. So to in Isaiah 14, the author first starts talking about a real earthly king but then switches it up to prophesy against the power behind the thrown. Satan is the power behind the thrown and will meet his end just like the two earthly rulers have.
Yep, I believe you.(cont from previous post, ran out of text)
..
Anyway there is my witness account … hope what I typed made sense, as I’m multitasking at the moment …
This is one of the most convoluted understandings of Ezekiel I have heard. Adam wasn't in heaven until Jesus defeated death on the cross. Adam never walked among the stones of fire or upon the mountain of God before he sined. Adam nor any King of Tyrus was ever called the anointed cherub that covers. Adam was a human being and so was a king of Tyrus no matter how long ago he lived. They were not created covered with diamonds, topaz, sardius, jasper, and sapphires. This cherub that covers shined brightly. Twice in these passages this being is called the cherub that covers. If you don't want to simply read what is written instead of making up stories about what is written I see no reason to talk about this anymore. Thanks for the discussion none the less, it was interesting.If you actually check out other passages in Ezekiel, you will see that God mocks men whose ancestors did blaspheme God and rebelled against Him, and God has a controversy with their descendants until each of those controversies are settled -one way or another.
The mocking of the king of Tyrus is a mocking of the one Adam spirit which each Adam person is born in; and Adam, the first father of our human being race, was in Eden, and we in his loins were there and were cast down and out in him. Only Adam was was cast down and out of Eden, in the third heaven.
Psalm 82 also states the same. It was Adam, the one prince who was cast down, when he died in spirit as a son of God.
Read that one using the Hebrew concordance
Nimrod is the ancestor of the King of Tyrus, a descendant of Nimrod, directly, who sought to exalt his throne above the throne of God in the Bab-el rebellion. The English is very wanting there, for the king is an Adam, not a satan, nor a former holy angel.
(cont from previous post, ran out of text)
Im almost done I want to provide a bit more context here
So over the next *year*, I prayed daily about this entity, the family who I believed was being influenced by it, etc and the family that lived there didnt believe what I had to say about them being influenced by such a thing. They believed my story, and my account, and even the revelations I believed I received concerning its identity and such but because they were such strong believers, they did not want to accept that they could be influenced. There came a day when one of the family members actually decided to give what I was saying a shot, and try to fight with me and within about 48 hours, they changed their mind, as they experienced car accidents, sickness, and other calamities I wont go into here (too many to list) and they ran the other direction, hoping that ignoring it would take care of the problem. To make a long story short, over the next year, I noticed that whenever I directly tried to oppose it in various ways, it was as though I was infringing upon its territory and specific types of traumatic things would happen I could make a laundry list of horrors. I had to be careful to not take issue with the people involved (who arguably did not want to face what was happening for what it was after they did that one time), but focus on the spiritual powers. One of the conclusions I finally had what I believed a revelation on, was that in some manner, this Lucifer was present because of Law. Some aspect of Law that was being adhered to, and followed by the family of believers (I presume), was being followed or submitted to, which sort of stripped them of authority they thought they had
Ill stop there I could go on, but Ill summarize.
* I saw the light, had the physical reaction, and watched as calamity unfolded when I challenged whatever it was.
* Those events were in conjunction with seeing a man named Mike who, I believed was perhaps Michael the angel. The time I had seen this man before, he was able to vanish along with a host of physical objects in a matter of seconds, and I was not alone when I saw this, I was with another person. The second time I saw him, he vanished yet again by himself.
* Through vision and revelation (if you choose to believe me and credit it accordingly), I believe what I saw was either the casting down and arrival of, or form, of an angel of light type of being named Lucifer, who influenced a strong family of believers who were stripped of some aspect of authority because they were submitting to some Law. I do not know what the name Lucifer would mean in this context specifically, as I am generally of the same camp as yeshuasavedme when it comes to the names that demons take on. However, I may argue this was not a demon, but something else.
When I put all those pieces together Im not saying anything about the timing of the passage in Revelation, or precisely what it entails I am only drawing a parallel to my own experience, when Micael and his angels fight against the dragon and his angels, and those angels are cast to the earth. When the Lord saw Satan cast out, it was like lightening from heaven. When Michael and his angels are fighting the dragon and his angels, what does it look like when they get thrown down ? Does it look like what I saw, and one of the reasons I saw Michael, was because he and his angels had cast this Lucifer down at some point ? And I still have questions as to the *nature* of what arrived/cast down/manifested and why did I get the name Lucifer concerning it ? Is there a specific law that the son of the morning in the scriptures is linked to, etc ?
Anyway there is my witness account hope what I typed made sense, as Im multitasking at the moment
No, and none would, because I would not believe them.
We have watched SCOAN -Emmanuel tv live broadcasts in instances where demons manifest and have called themsaelves "lucifer".
Psalm 18:44, 45 is fulfilled there all the time, in that the "ben nekar -sons of the aliens [fallen watchers]- manifest, and fear, and come out of their strongholds because of the Anointing of Christ on the men of God, there.
verse 45 is literally that the sons of the aliens [demons] become foolish, tremble and shake with fear, and come out of their strongholds.
Thanks for reading all of that ... I don't like to inflict tl/dr posts on people, so thanksYep, I believe you.
But I believe the name used was to let you know it was an evil spirit that many associate with being "lucifer", and so that was a way to let you understand that the evil spirit was a satan.
The Bible has many coined words for events that happen, like Sodomy, Babble, and others. Even the name "Am -Rapha- El in Genesis 14 was a coined name for Nimrod, because "in him they fell" -the people at the tower. It means "the people", "to fall", and "mighty one".
So through a myth of a fallen angel, the word lucifer is coined for satan.
But the satans are all evil spirits in heaven. They have not fallen, yet, and they were created to do what they do, and they serve God in doing it; because they tempt, try, and test the sons of Adam and the holy Watchers, and those who believe their lies and do them end up being cast aways int eh Lake of Fire and food, then, for the satans forever, whose food and drink is to torment and afflict those who became subject to them.
My Dad had that evil light appear to him when he rejected Jesus as LORD, and it led him into eastern religions, and Dad went insane.
He told me about it when I asked him why he rejected Jesus as LORD. He had been in many battles in WW2 and had friends lose heads, arms, legs... while walking beside him, and he lost/rejected what faith he had and sought another way -as he told me; and "a light appeared by his bed and showed him another way", which included astro-projection and re-incarnation and divination.
Job's friend -so called- had a satan =an evil spirit from heaven- appear by his bed at night and accuse Job.
Thanks for reading it ! Again, I know it was long.Thanks for your witness. The reason why I wanted to read it is because I work with a fellow who has also seen and has had interaction with demons and also with angels of God. The stories are very different as he was living in Detroit and preaching on the streets and came up against alot of spiritual warfare simply because he was doing the Lords work, the enemy didn't like that too much.
I actually read the first few posts of the thread, and then skipped to the end ... I will go back and read what you said on the matters because I don't know what you mean that "I can believe what I want" yet lol ... again, if you see where I've said that I believe something that is off or wrong to you, lemme know ... thus far, I respect both you and yeshuasavedme posts that I read in the forum, etcAs for the Satan Lucifer discussion here, you and yeshuasavedme can believe what you want. I stated what I believe about it and feel I said enough. God bless you both!
Title says it all JACK.
Did Jesus reveal himself to these people?
Did Jesus reveal the truth to these people concerning this matter?
The same people you mentioned are those who would place liturgy above scripture and church dogmas above scripture.
So to whom are you witnessing to and about who?
You should be witnessing about Jesus and what he has revealed to you and not what men have opined to you and others.
These two you mentioned are men and fallible might I add because they lean not on the cornerstone as the refuge but upon church leadership and their fallible dogmas.
Where is your bias friend?
Has Jesus revealed himself to you and shown you his truth.
I as a witness can say he has revealed himself to me and he has shown me his truth and he has shown me also where he had smitten Satan and who Satan is and when he has been released to decieve the world for the last and final time.
Do you have Jesus in your heart or do you have the opinion of those who say they have Jesus.
The relationship must be with the living God and not your church, your fellow men or church hierarchy. If you don't have a one to one relationship with Christ and rely outwardly into the world for truth, then you will not find the truth of The Lord.
Satan is a real person and those that use play on words in Hebrew to make scripture say things that it doesn't are the enemies of Christ,
The book of Isaiah chapter 14 is written in a way throughout the whole chapter that is describing lucifer as a real and tangible person who amongst the ranks of the angels wanted to be equal to the Angel of The Lord, the Living Word Christ Jesus.
Satan is described as a real character pertaining to a real and tangible person who started the great controversy that manifested into the two sides of good and evil.
Read the whole chapter 14 of Isaiah before you go beating your chest for these two fallible men.
Okay I went back and re-read your thoughts on the matter ... you believe Satan and the being described in Isaiah 14:12, and the King of Tyrus in Ezekiel 28 etc, are the same.As for the Satan Lucifer discussion here, you and yeshuasavedme can believe what you want. I stated what I believe about it and feel I said enough. God bless you both!
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