Athiest here. I just can't understand one thing about Christianty. I know that most Christians want to get to heaven, but, why? Whats the purpose in heaven? What do we do in heaven? Why go there! We spend eternity with no purpose there. Heaven sounds like a different form of hell to me.
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Whats the Christian Objection?
- Thread starter Clutchman
- Start date
pmarquette
Well-Known Member
there is a web page that has positive images www.lifeshaper.comand this has one image that says : except man's reach , exceeds his grasp, what is life for ?
Thomas Acquinas stated that the world ,universe, etc. is in motion who initiated it ? ; that there is complexity , who was the designer ? ; that there is purpose , who is the author ? ; that a plan , who is the architect ?
All " religions " speak of a spiritual and carnal element :
Hindu's speak of karma & reincarnation till you get it right ; Moslems , Jews , Christians of a heaven and hell / reward and punishment ; Budahists speak of denial of self & merging with the universe ..... secular humanism and new agers speak of the god of this world , and the authority of this life , side stepping the next life ....
What ever you decide , research is required , for the decision you make now may very well have eternal consequences .... the gospels say we work out our own salvation [ we choose to accept / reject Jesus' words = which will defend or prosecute us in the last days ] .
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Lyle
I am last minute stuff
Is the difference between life and death.. Hell you burn and suffer and die forever for your sins.. Heaven you live with life more abudent then any other we know. Heaven is so much more then even the human mind can grasp, and the best thing is that Christ is there. It's more then just merely exsisting day after day and playing harps and eating grapes... it's like this world, yet so much more.... Life will be as it is here, onyl without all the negatives....
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Athanasian Creed
Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Solus Christus !!!
John 14: 2,3 -
(Jesus said) "In My Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with Me that you also may be where I am"
1 Corinthians 2:9 -
"No eye has seen, nor ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love Him"
Revelation 21:3 - 5(a) -
And I (Apostle John) heard a loud voice from (God's) throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people and God Himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away" He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new !"
Lord Jesus, come quickly !!!!
Ray
(Jesus said) "In My Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with Me that you also may be where I am"
1 Corinthians 2:9 -
"No eye has seen, nor ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love Him"
Revelation 21:3 - 5(a) -
And I (Apostle John) heard a loud voice from (God's) throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people and God Himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away" He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new !"
Lord Jesus, come quickly !!!!
Ray
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Dear Friendly Atheist,
Thank you for your honest question. If you do not believe in Heaven, then you most certainly don't believe in hell, so that's a moot argument.
If more people here were honest, they would say thay have the same question, even though they consider themselves to be Christian.
Why go to heaven? Well, honestly, that's not the point. As a Christian, I do not hope in a place, I hope in a being. And this is no ordinary being. This being made me, gives me life and knows who I am.
However, this being is not static. He is deeper than any one or thing can ever imagine. Yes, I would admit that if being in Heaven were static, it would get dull. However, this is not the case.
Have you ever had a favorite food or beverage, like a milk shake, that you were disappointed at finishing and wished there was more? Well, this is what Heaven will be like. Only, there will be no bottom to the "milk shake" and we will never get filled. But that's not even the half of it. The "Milk shake" gets richer, creamier and just plain better the more we consume. This is how that being is. He is beyond knowing, and yet invites us to know Him anyway.
Now, this is what I believe. Of course you are most free to disagree. I have no proof beyond my own faith, much like your own atheism.
In passing, I question your own atheism, ever so gently. Why are you here, in this forum? I would think that a true atheist could care less for any thing dealing with mans spiritual condition. If I were an atheist, I would content myself with being an atheist. As a Christian, I do not frequent non-Christian message boards and ask probing questions about atheism. I am satisfied that what I believe is true and live my life accordingly. Just a thought.
I'm glad you stopped by. May you find your peace.
Peace.
Peter
Thank you for your honest question. If you do not believe in Heaven, then you most certainly don't believe in hell, so that's a moot argument.
If more people here were honest, they would say thay have the same question, even though they consider themselves to be Christian.
Why go to heaven? Well, honestly, that's not the point. As a Christian, I do not hope in a place, I hope in a being. And this is no ordinary being. This being made me, gives me life and knows who I am.
However, this being is not static. He is deeper than any one or thing can ever imagine. Yes, I would admit that if being in Heaven were static, it would get dull. However, this is not the case.
Have you ever had a favorite food or beverage, like a milk shake, that you were disappointed at finishing and wished there was more? Well, this is what Heaven will be like. Only, there will be no bottom to the "milk shake" and we will never get filled. But that's not even the half of it. The "Milk shake" gets richer, creamier and just plain better the more we consume. This is how that being is. He is beyond knowing, and yet invites us to know Him anyway.
Now, this is what I believe. Of course you are most free to disagree. I have no proof beyond my own faith, much like your own atheism.
In passing, I question your own atheism, ever so gently. Why are you here, in this forum? I would think that a true atheist could care less for any thing dealing with mans spiritual condition. If I were an atheist, I would content myself with being an atheist. As a Christian, I do not frequent non-Christian message boards and ask probing questions about atheism. I am satisfied that what I believe is true and live my life accordingly. Just a thought.
I'm glad you stopped by. May you find your peace.
Peace.
Peter
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Rafael
Only time enough for love
Use a little of the imagination God gave you as a child and get your mind out of the sticky mud of death and corruption that define this world. There is no dream or imagination of good that even come close to what heaven and being part of God's family will be like. Being trapped in a place of time and death with no escape like this world is bad, but there is a way out, and an unltimate victory over this dimension of death and the curse of death......But you have to grasp a hold of it and take it - otherwise you sink in the mirey clay of this world and are stuck to the evil imaginations that heaven would be boring or like hell.....Come on!? Who told you that? Ever see Star Trek or wonder about the things beyond this little planet? Well, God has taken the risk (not really a risk lol) to make men in His own image and create fellowship for Himself and be known to us as family. If you've had a chance to look around you lately with eyes that can see some of the beauty and order God put into the original creation, you will know that God has plenty of imagination to do great things and being part of His family will definately not be boring or like Hell. If you choose to keep such a mind towards God, then you will have what you choose.
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Still n Eternal ilshake. Well, everynow and then, I liek a different food type. Thats what I mean. And I do wonder whats out there. nd as for the absolutely no negative thing, even so, I still wouldn't want to o to heaven. I don't fear death. It can drop by anytime. A world without death is hell right there. We need death. And no one gave me this idea. I think I'm one of the few who have that idea.
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Heaven:
Joy is fulfilling the purpose for which you were created. No pain, no suffering, no shame, no temptation, no failure, no attacks from satan.
Everyone there will have some sort of job to do. We will praise the LORD!!!, everyone there will love us and we will love everyone there. Every need and want met. Great joy.
God loves you so very much. Tell Him exactly how you feel, even if your not sure He exists. Pour your heart out to Him.
Hope to see you there. I'll be looking for you in Heaven.
Joy is fulfilling the purpose for which you were created. No pain, no suffering, no shame, no temptation, no failure, no attacks from satan.
Everyone there will have some sort of job to do. We will praise the LORD!!!, everyone there will love us and we will love everyone there. Every need and want met. Great joy.
God loves you so very much. Tell Him exactly how you feel, even if your not sure He exists. Pour your heart out to Him.
Hope to see you there. I'll be looking for you in Heaven.
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TCapp
Senior Veteran
Most birds (in a bird cage) want freedom, but why? What's the purpose of being able to take flight into the woods, perch in the sunlight and feel the breeze in their feathers? Why go there! Why not stay in the bird cage, with the little water dish, and the little toy bells and birdseed? Being able to fly out in the sunny woods sounds like a different form of bird cage.
(I am not trying to make an ironclad analogy, but simply paint a word picture, here.)
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Clutchman said:
Hey Clutch...how ya doin'?
Yes, according to what you wrote here...heaven does sound like a drag.
Let me tell you what I believe about Heaven. Hopefully the more mainstreem Christians won't get on my case for it.
I believe that what some call Heaven is in fact our home. Where we start before birth and where we go after we die. I believe that the other side is a replica of where we are now...without the decay and the harsh negative climate of Earth...and the bugs.
I believe that there are wonderful differences there that make the thought of it somewhat idealic. Imagine if you will a place somewhat like this place...without the negativity, time, or other physical limitations. I don't believe that any of us go there to play the harp and sit on clouds all day.
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- Oct 23, 2003
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What's the difference between living in prison, and living at home? For some there is no difference, but then they've not understood their freedom, or lack thereof. Not only that, but prison should be a form of punishment. Now expand that beyond your ability to understand. I know it's not possibly, but it's infinitely greater degree of both punishment and freedom. Now for the presence of God, that is something I can't even imagine.Clutchman said:
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Quote:Athiest here. I just can't understand one thing about Christianty. I know that most Christians want to get to heaven, but, why? Whats the purpose in heaven? What do we do in heaven? Why go there! We spend eternity with no purpose there. Heaven sounds like a different form of hell to me.
Hi Clutchman,
Now, I'm going to be a little different, and I'm going to say gently to you, that you have assumed that my goal is "heaven". It isn't. My goal is to walk with Christ. If there was no Heaven, I would still choose to walk with Christ, because :
Matt 11:29 "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.
If I receive no reward when I die (heaven) then that is quite allright with me. I will still have lived a life of meaning.
God bless you, Clutchman!
Hi Clutchman,
Now, I'm going to be a little different, and I'm going to say gently to you, that you have assumed that my goal is "heaven". It isn't. My goal is to walk with Christ. If there was no Heaven, I would still choose to walk with Christ, because :
Matt 11:29 "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.
If I receive no reward when I die (heaven) then that is quite allright with me. I will still have lived a life of meaning.
God bless you, Clutchman!
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SolomonVII
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- Sep 4, 2003
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Very well said, Peter. And I am also a little perplexed about why so many non-believers can spend so many hours passionately arguing about something that they don't believe in. For example, I have absolutely no belief in UFO's. I also would get quickly bored of going onto a UFO discussion board and discussing my non-belief in UFO's.Peter said:
In terms of religion, I have to say, if I had not married a Catholic and became again interested in Christianity through listening to the priest's wermons at church, I just can't imagine spending any time posting here. I think I would be seeking out people with interest similar to my own and discussing those beliefs rather than seeking out people that I disagree with. In fact, when I encountered Christians who were a little too fervent in their beliefs before I started believing again, I usually tried to excuse myself from the discussion at the first opportunity.
Personally, I am always much more interested in finding out what it is that I believe, and what is worthwhile to believe in, than in futiley arguing about what I don't believe in.
There is a world full of strange and exotics ideas surrounding us, and most find expression with just a few clicks of the mouse. If one is absolutely certain that Christianity is not what interest you, why ask a Christian for answers?
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But what about the people we love on earth that will not make it to heaven? I am talking about my son, daughter, mother or father that I was not able to convinced to adore Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour? Am I gonna suffer the lost of my family eventhough I am in heaven?
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Rafael
Only time enough for love
Too bad you didn't like my post to Clutchman, our atheist friend, and felt a need to berate it. You know, not everybody responds to syrupy sweet, either, but an honest report of the world's condition and what it is like to be stuck in the mindset of the world's sin and death. Didn't God call such a condition mirey clay and a horrible pit in scripture? It takes all kinds and all ways with a pure heart; without animosity towards any. There was no animosity in my post towards Clutchman, but fervent hope and good will. I'm sorry you made the worst of my words and could not see the good intent in them. The advice I would give would be same as I would hear myself. I get the feeling by your remark that you think yours to be better while I see no need to compete for attention before the world with such ungracious attitude.Peter said:
Psalms 40:2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.
Philippians 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
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Eleana
Jesus is the true vine...
Clutchman...have you been in love before? I believe you will feel very attached to the one you love. You will wish to stick with her...follow her...spend time together with her. Whenever you are with her, you hope that the time will stop at that moment. You feel eternity.
That is how I feel when I had accepted Jesus. I long to go heaven...to meet Him face to face, to bow down to Him, to talk to Him everyday, to be with my Creator every moment....It's really hard to explain in words...That's is my purpose to go heaven. Even when we get into heaven, that purpose will be in our life everyday... praising our Lord with the angels.
That is how I feel when I had accepted Jesus. I long to go heaven...to meet Him face to face, to bow down to Him, to talk to Him everyday, to be with my Creator every moment....It's really hard to explain in words...That's is my purpose to go heaven. Even when we get into heaven, that purpose will be in our life everyday... praising our Lord with the angels.
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Let's forget all about heaven for a minute
Jesus said, "and the kingdom of heaven is with you now!"
The christian objective shouldn't be to "get to heaven"
it should be to start living. TODAY, NOW, while we're here. Once you become christian and start to truely live, you actually FEEL alive - you can find joy in the oddest of places, you can get through tough events much easier, because you have comfort and hope.
Have you ever felt desenceitized? Just ... "blah". Didn't feel much, didn't care much, were just going through the motions?
Or how about when something horrible happened? Like you were dead already. Like there was no hope, that life *IS* hell?
I know I have, and some. Carelessness, Hopelessness, Sencelessness, Wearyness... Our real objective, is to over come these things TODAY, right NOW - and help everybody else who is essentially "dieing" inside- or are already dead inside, be raised up from their death, and become living in christ (this is what baptism signifies). Christ came not only for hope of eternity, but for hope of today, and that in my mind, is the MOST important christian objective, nevermind how wonderfull heaven is.
Jesus said, "and the kingdom of heaven is with you now!"
The christian objective shouldn't be to "get to heaven"
it should be to start living. TODAY, NOW, while we're here. Once you become christian and start to truely live, you actually FEEL alive - you can find joy in the oddest of places, you can get through tough events much easier, because you have comfort and hope.
Have you ever felt desenceitized? Just ... "blah". Didn't feel much, didn't care much, were just going through the motions?
Or how about when something horrible happened? Like you were dead already. Like there was no hope, that life *IS* hell?
I know I have, and some. Carelessness, Hopelessness, Sencelessness, Wearyness... Our real objective, is to over come these things TODAY, right NOW - and help everybody else who is essentially "dieing" inside- or are already dead inside, be raised up from their death, and become living in christ (this is what baptism signifies). Christ came not only for hope of eternity, but for hope of today, and that in my mind, is the MOST important christian objective, nevermind how wonderfull heaven is.
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