What's it take to be a Messianic?

[aniello]

I'm not referring to reform/conservative only but most believing Jews who come to the Lord come from a reform, conservative or secular background. The Messianic synagogue's that I know that are affiliated with the likes of MJAA and UMJC are reform/conservative.

You asked how... I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood that had 3 synagogue's in the neighborhood. In the late '70's/ early '80's my Messianic synagogue opened it's doors in the same neighborhood. It's not necessarily a pro active being apart but the essence is Messianic synagogue's don't consider themselves apart from the community of Jews. Like I said it's no accident that Messianic congregation's are located in or close to already existing Jewish communities.

OK, I sort of understand your view better. But none of the traditional synagogues and shuls in our metro area consider any form of MJ-ism an acceptable part of our Jewish community.

I don't say this to be mean, it's just the way it is.

 

[mishkan]

Good way to put it, Marc. We are part of the Jewish community because we are part of the Jewish community. Whether everyone accepts our views or not is irrelevant.

Messianics often live in areas with high Jewish population. We shop at the kosher market and the Jewish bookstore. Some of us study with traditional rabbis. We keep the festivals with the rest of the Jewish community. We support Israel and the Jewish community with our money, our prayers, and our presence.

In short, we are engaged, plugged-in, active in all areas of Jewish communal life. Often moreso than our non-Messianic counterparts.

[bless and do not curse]

What the heck did you say, man???

 

[ChavaK]

You and Chava are certainly correct as far as what I have seen and been told in our metro area where we have Recon, Reform, Conservative, Chabad, and Modern Orthodox. Wife and I attend Conservative regularly, our M.O. when we can due to our age and distance.

I recently had a Reconstructionist rabbi as a patient. As far as his beliefs and
observances go, he seemed pretty close to Conservative. To be honest, I'm
not really sure what sets him apart as being "Reconstructionist".

 

[ChavaK]

Good way to put it, Marc. We are part of the Jewish community because we are part of the Jewish community.

Even those who are Gentiles, or congregations that are mostly Gentile?

What the heck did you say, man???

LOL, they seem to have overly strict filters here. A couple of times I've posted and gotten the censored version, even though what I posted was fine.

 

[ChavaK]

I'm not referring to reform/conservative only but most believing Jews who come to the Lord come from a reform, conservative or secular background.

Why do you think that is?.....verses any coming from Orthodoxy.

It's no accident that Messianic congregation's are located in or close to already existing Jewish communities.

Interesting....the Messianic congregations in our area are located far away
from the Jewish community. They tend to associate and meet in churches,
so perhaps that's why....not many churches around the Jewish area.
One small one that's over a mile away, and a big mega church that probably
isn't ideal for many people.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Why do you think that is?.....verses any coming from Orthodoxy.


Interesting....the Messianic congregations in our area are located far away
from the Jewish community. They tend to associate and meet in churches,
so perhaps that's why....not many churches around the Jewish area.
One small one that's over a mile away, and a big mega church that probably
isn't ideal for many people.

I said for the most part and in regards to the larger MJ organizations such as MJAA and UMJC.

 

[mishkan]

Even those who are Gentiles, or congregations that are mostly Gentile?

Many years ago, I read an article entitled, "Yes, But Is It Good for the Jews?" I think it was in "Moment" magazine. The article talked about the fact that this is a standard template that is often applied to all areas of life.

The way I see it, even Gentiles who live in and around the Jewish community are part of what makes the Jewish community thrive. Our money is as good as anybody else's. Our presence in a classroom helps keep the doors open. Gentiles learning about Jewish culture, tradition, and theology can only be a Good Thing.

You have to realize that, in my model, Gentile participants in a Messianic shul are not merely Christians who are "out to steal your Jewish soul" or "win another Jew to Jesus". We view ourselves as has been described here--"grafted in", a part of the Jewish world. Not replacing the Jews in Hashem's plan, but joining with.

LOL, they seem to have overly strict filters here. A couple of times I've posted and gotten the censored version, even though what I posted was fine.

Yeah, I figured that's what was going on. It does make me curious, though, about exactly what he said.

 

[xDenax]

Good way to put it, Marc. We are part of the Jewish community because we are part of the Jewish community. Whether everyone accepts our views or not is irrelevant.

Messianics often live in areas with high Jewish population. We shop at the kosher market and the Jewish bookstore. Some of us study with traditional rabbis. We keep the festivals with the rest of the Jewish community. We support Israel and the Jewish community with our money, our prayers, and our presence.

In short, we are engaged, plugged-in, active in all areas of Jewish communal life. Often moreso than our non-Messianic counterparts.

I guess I just don't see how living near Jews, shopping at a kosher market and celebrating festivals makes you literally a part of the community. Insisting you are a part of the community does not make it true. But then again, I don't meet MJ's around here. I know there is one congregation but it's at least 20 minutes from any other shuls. I did meet one lady who once refered to herself as Messianic. She was taking a class with me at the Conservative shul. I know she was also involved in other areas. But there is a difference in being involved in the community and being the community. Maybe you mean it the sense of being involved. However I do still wonder what shopping at a kosher store and celebrating festivals has to do with being involved with the Jewish community.

 

[xDenax]

You have to realize that, in my model, Gentile participants in a Messianic shul are not merely Christians who are "out to steal your Jewish soul" or "win another Jew to Jesus". We view ourselves as has been described here--"grafted in", a part of the Jewish world. Not replacing the Jews in Hashem's plan, but joining with.

We know how you view yourself. We just don't understand why. See the difference?

 

[mishkan]

We know how you view yourself. We just don't understand why. See the difference?

There isn't much explanation I can offer, other than, "We believe what the prophets said."

The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

And it shall come to pass in the last days, the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

And many people shall go and say, "Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths," for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

This passage, and others, describe a time when Israel shall serve as the planetary capitol, with Gentiles coming to learn Torah at the Temple in Jerusalem. All nations will be judged by the standard of Torah, and all disputes will be settled by decree of Hashem, not by warfare.

If one accepts this as the model for ultimate reality, what else is there for a Gentile to do, other than start practicing unity with the Jewish nation?

 

[visionary]

There isn't much explanation I can offer, other than, "We believe what the prophets said."


This passage, and others, describe a time when Israel shall serve as the planetary capitol, with Gentiles coming to learn Torah at the Temple in Jerusalem. All nations will be judged by the standard of Torah, and all disputes will be settled by decree of Hashem, not by warfare.

If one accepts this as the model for ultimate reality, what else is there for a Gentile to do, other than start practicing unity with the Jewish nation?

Yep and that will happen and is happening in part. The more into Messiah Yeshua, the more light the nation of Israel can reflect.

 

[NealOFA]

Another thread got derailed (big surprise!) and one of the underlying thoughts was what does it take to be a Messianic? What should one
do to differentiate it from Christianity?

In other words, what would most here consider the minimum one must
do to be considered Messianic?

If you are a follower of Yeshua who live according to Torah, I believe you are a Messianic!

 

[ChavaK]

If you are a follower of Yeshua who live according to Torah, I believe you are a Messianic!

What do you consider "living according to Torah"?

 

[visionary]

hopefully, he means according to Rabbi Yeshua's determination of how to view it.

 

[NealOFA]

According to the "arm of Adonai" (Isaiah 53:1) who came NOT to abolish ANYTHING commanded by His Father but to fulfill...