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What's going on?

Babymine

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What is happening in the Church these days? There are so many schisms, so many divisions- young versus old, traditional versus non tranditional, Christian versus, Christ Follower.
It's unbelievable, and not just in these forums, it's seeping heavily into all of the SDA churches, and it's so disappointing. We are ALL playing right into the devil's hands, getting hung up on minutae, stopping us dead in our tracks. Clouding what is most important which is God, and heaven. (we all do still believe in those two things dont we?)
When did EGW become more important than God? Why must I be anti-Christian? Why can't I be Pro God?
Way back in the day when this forum just opened up, I asked a question- why are there so many differences in the church? How can two people believe in things that stand in complete opposite to one another, and call themselves the same thing? I didnt post in here again until, I had the opportunity to witness about SDAism and had no idea what to say.
And today I still wouldnt know what to say, because I do not know what my church believes in. Only what I believe in, and that seems to be what is tearing all of us apart. Each believes his own thing.
What to do?
 

Babymine

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Umm. :confused: They are the same thing..

Hey Dathen, Im with you. I am a Christian who is a Christ Follower, so you would think, well (I would and I do think)that they are the same thing. But these days, it is not what is being touted. Take a look at this:


Did you see the ANTI CHRISTIAN logo at the end of that "commercial"? Do you know that there are some SDA churches playing this commercial during the time after sabbath school and right before divine worship. Do you know that more, and more people will buy into this? That the divisions will grow and grow and grow. By admission of the people who create this film (who are not SDA, BTW)- the films are created to cause "tension" and be thought provoking. Is that how unity goes? Poking fun and being smug?
It's like there is a whirlwind bulldozer smashing the church. It's so upsetting.
 
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jabechler

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To all, good morning and happy Sabbath. It is a shame and I would even say a sin what is happening to the church today and it started a long time ago. As Seventh Day adventists we have been given a message for the end time and the Writings of Ellen White are part of that message. They were and still are a gift of God to lead us back to the bible and to give us understanding. I do believe we are in the shaking and both the scripture and spirit of prophecy tell us this would happen near the end of time. The divisions we see started when Mrs white was alive and will continue till Jesus comes. I have have learned we must be faithful to God till the end and that we must stand for truth though the heavens fall. I t is getting incresingly difficult to be fead in the local churchs but if we contiune in prayer and study we will show ourselves approved of God. We must learn by the spirit to discerne which battles to fight and when to let our example stand in the presence of others that the character of Christ will be a witness to others. Remember that we cannot convert others only the spirit of God can do that. We can plant the seed of truth and let God prevail in there heart. Its a shame that this forum cannot have a spirit of unity but but human nature wont allow that and that is why we see the problems that exist because many " christians" still have the old nature and not surrendered to the nature of Christ. Let us pray for our church knowing that Christ is at the door and will be coming soon.
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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Hey Dathen, Im with you. I am a Christian who is a Christ Follower, so you would think, well (I would and I do think)that they are the same thing. But these days, it is not what is being touted. Take a look at this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8263755300086117041&pr=goog-sl

Did you see the ANTI CHRISTIAN logo at the end of that "commercial"? Do you know that there are some SDA churches playing this commercial during the time after sabbath school and right before divine worship. Do you know that more, and more people will buy into this? That the divisions will grow and grow and grow. By admission of the people who create this film (who are not SDA, BTW)- the films are created to cause "tension" and be thought provoking. Is that how unity goes? Poking fun and being smug?
It's like there is a whirlwind bulldozer smashing the church. It's so upsetting.

This is not an anti-Christian video or logo at the end. I am glad there are SDA churches playing this video. I will mention them in my blog this week. This is sponsered by Community Christian Church
They have some other video's also I just watched the self Baptism one. It was very good. the other videos are at http://www.communitychristian.org/play/playfav.html
 
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honorthesabbath

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Hey Dathen, Im with you. I am a Christian who is a Christ Follower, so you would think, well (I would and I do think)that they are the same thing. But these days, it is not what is being touted. Take a look at this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8263755300086117041&pr=goog-sl

Did you see the ANTI CHRISTIAN logo at the end of that "commercial"? Do you know that there are some SDA churches playing this commercial during the time after sabbath school and right before divine worship. Do you know that more, and more people will buy into this? That the divisions will grow and grow and grow. By admission of the people who create this film (who are not SDA, BTW)- the films are created to cause "tension" and be thought provoking. Is that how unity goes? Poking fun and being smug?
It's like there is a whirlwind bulldozer smashing the church. It's so upsetting.

Hi babymine--I just viewed this video and found it stupid and absurd--there is no purpose in it other than--as you say--to cause strife and division.

Don't ppl have better things to do with their time and money?

What are the odds that if this film is being shown in SDA churches that it's the progressive ones! No sane SDA church would permit such trash to be shown on the Holy Sabbath day--let alone pollute the Sanctuary!

PS--I found that the supposed "Christ Follower" came off far more arrogant then the "Christian" did--down to the CF calling him a 'doofus"! Now how nice was that? And yet the message we are suppose to get from this farce is that the Christ Follower is superior to the Christian?? ROFL--What tripe!
 
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Dathen

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I found the video, quite strange. I didn't see a point or purpose to it, and I really don't see how that can be shown in churches. Obviously a Macintosh ad take off, but that just shows that Christian parade themselves about, and Christ followers are humble, a grave misunderstanding.

What is the point of showing that in Gods Holy Temple? To me that seems exactly the same sort of thing, that the buyers and sellers were doing in Jesus time in the Temple. The ones Jesus drove away and accused of profaning the temple.

Christian and Christ Follower are definately the same thing, humble. Though this ad demotes that fact, I don't see the point of it. If a Christian is like either of those characters, they obviously are an "outward" Christian and not a true "inward" Christian. As for the "Christian no longer" part at the end, is that implying that behaviour makes you no longer a Christian, seen though we arn't perfect, we're sinners?

I still stand strong as I would think all of you do that Christ follower really is just the definition of Christian, making them the same thing.
 
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Babymine

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This is not an anti-Christian video or logo at the end. I am glad there are SDA churches playing this video. I will mention them in my blog this week. This is sponsered by... They have some other video's also I just watched the self Baptism one. It was very good. the other videos are at

Yes sir, you are correct, there is not an anti-christian logo, it is what that last screen feels like to me. I guess Christian No More means "Yay Jesus!!" to you?
The CCC is NOT the SDAC, and I think that is what matters the most. By their own admission, some of these films were made specifically to create dramatic tension. What in that is unifying? If you are looking to make something stronger, why in the world would you create tension.This is why it is clear as day to me that these films are not good or helpful in any way, they are merely destructive, divisive, and pretty much one of the most selfish messages you can get across. Im amazed that any church, but the one who created it, would play it.

If you don't do it like me, you're doing it wrong.

That is the implication of the message and it is just ridiculous. Simply and Thoroughly ridiculous.

I'm not looking to cause any MORE division in the church. Im not trying to "get people to my side", Im not looking to promote what I believe as better or more important as what anyone else believes. Im not looking to MOCK people. Im not looking to shed others in a bad light in order for me to look better. I'm not looking to promote my own version of SDAism. (Something tells me that while Babyminism has a catchy sound, the Lord would not be pleased.)
Maybe that is why I dont see the value in this commercial.

I think what shocks me more than anything, is that even though the church is virtually disintegrating before our eyes, there seems to be nothing looking to stop it, or slow it, or...anything. Im not sure at this point there is anything if this really is the shaking. It seems that every day there are more people building their own stages, to distract from God, and inject self. If there is one thing I can say that this commercial has taught me, its that I know for sure that I'm a Christ Following Christian or a Christian who is a Christ follower yes one of the two. Amen.
 
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TrustAndObey

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My youngest son sabotaged my speakers, and they don't work anymore. I think he stuck a tongue depresser in one of them or something.

I did "watch" the video though, and saw the "CHRISTIAN NO MORE" at the end, which seemed pretty odd to me.

I think you're right Babymine, I think it's to cause more division. Now people will say "oh I'm not a Christian, I'm a Christ Follower....which is better."
 
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maco

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My youngest son sabotaged my speakers, and they don't work anymore. I think he stuck a tongue depresser in one of them or something.

I did "watch" the video though, and saw the "CHRISTIAN NO MORE" at the end, which seemed pretty odd to me.

I think you're right Babymine, I think it's to cause more division. Now people will say "oh I'm not a Christian, I'm a Christ Follower....which is better."

They probably mean that they call themselves a Christ follower rather than a Christian because of how the term Christian has been watered down to mean a person who belongs to a spiritual social club whereas a Christ follower is more defined as one who obeys Jesus. Just some thoughts...:idea:
 
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TrustAndObey

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They probably mean that they call themselves a Christ follower rather than a Christian because of how the term Christian has been watered down to mean a person who belongs to a spiritual social club whereas a Christ follower is more defined as one who obeys Jesus. Just some thoughts...:idea:

Could be. Like I said, I couldn't hear it. The message might've been that the word Christian has been watered down. I dunno.
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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I finshed the blog article and will post it here since I know many are too afraid to visit my blog, heresy may rub off or something.

Community Christian Church has produced a series of fairly humorous videos available on the internet. The first one I was introduced to was the parody of the PC vs. Mac ads. In which the nerdy guy is the Christian with a pile of books and the cool guy is the Christ Follower”. The Christian asks the Christ Follower if he wants to see the Christian’s bumper stickers which he has inside his coat because his car is full. He then asks the Christ follower “so what do you wear to display your Christianity?” Christ Follower answers; “Well, nothing I guess, I don’t know I just try to follow Christ in the way I live my life, I don’t feel I have to wear my heart on my sleeve so to speak”. The Christian then mocks the Christ Follower until the Christian mocking repeats “I am a dork”

The message in the video to me is that what we do is more important than then what we say about ourselves. The Video ends with the logo which says “Christian No More.” The problem comes at the explanation of Christian No More where they try to explain their message of Christian No More. In simple terms they want to rid the world of the historic term Christian because in many places Christian is merely a cultural word and many people practice their Christian faith without much conviction. From the Website:

The Difference between a Christian and a Christ-follower
By Dave Ferguson

Here are some thought provoking words from the book, Jesus with Dirty Feet. “Jesus was not a Christian. He never asked anyone to become a Christian, never built a steepled building, never drew up a theological treatise, never took an offering, never wore religious garments, never incorporated for tax purposes. He simply called people to follow him.”

When the Barna Research Group did a survey of 152 separate items comparing the general population with those people who called themselves Christians, they found virtually no difference. Ugh! They found no difference in the attitudes of Christians and non-Christians and they found no difference in the actions of Christians and non-Christians. That is the contemporary working definition of the title “Christian”. Do you understand what it means to the rest of the world to call yourself a “Christian”? And, is a “Christian” what you want to describe your willingness to sacrifice everything you have to see God’s dream fulfilled? Not me!
If you call yourself a Christian, I want you to stop! Seriously, I hope you will never again call yourself a Christian. Maybe not what you were expecting? It is exactly what you and the church need – forget ever being a Christian again. And secondly, if you have ever encouraged someone to become a Christian I want to ask you to never do that again! I’m dead serious. I hope you will never again ask a friend, family member, co-worker or neighbor to become a Christian. Why? Because the last thing the mission of Jesus Christ needs are more Christians!

Here are the brutal facts (and it pains me to say this because I really don’t like being this negative…but the truth hurts.): 85% of the people in the United States call themselves Christians. Now, let’s pause long enough to realize that’s a whole lot of people: 247 million people to be exact. But how are those 85% doing in accomplishing the Jesus mission?
  • Research tells us among people in North America who call themselves Christians that a Christian is no more likely to give money to a homeless person on the street than a non-Christian.
  • Those who call themselves Christians are no more likely to correct a mistake if the cashier gives them too much change than a non-Christian.
  • A Christian is just as likely to have an elective abortion as non-Christian.
  • A Christian divorces at the same rate as those who consider themselves non-Christians.
  • Even though there are more, big churches than ever before filled with people who proudly wear the title Christian, 50% of Christian churches didn’t help one single person find salvation.
I no longer call myself a Christian. I no longer try to convert people to Christianity. I’m done with that. The word “Christian” has been tarnished. It’s not so much because the title is wrong, but because as a label it has now come to mean something far different than what it means to follow Jesus. Being a “Christian” has been reduced to the expectation of nice-ness. How pathetic. How boring. How easy. How insignificant. And even that expectation of nice-ness doesn’t have to be fulfilled because the greater expectation is hypocrisy – the practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not live out. Who would want to be that!?!
I am a Christ Follower. I follow Jesus. And I follow Jesus step for step as His Spirit moves me and His community called the Church. When Jesus steps, I follow. When Jesus speeds up – I increase my pace. When Jesus slows down – I slow down. The direction; the speed and the entire velocity of my life are determined by moving at the speed of Jesus’ Spirit. Simple. Clear. Not easy!

The concept of abandoning a historic word which means follower of Christ for a new term which means “Christ Follower” is the height of absurdity. What this campaign is probably about is that the media has portrayed Christians as mainly a political entity that is hypocritical and force the country to follow their political agenda. That is certainly the emphasis for quite some time for some examples you can read my article Election Enlightenment and the World to Come The use of statistics as most of us know is often problematic. For instance note the first bulleted statement where Christians are no more likely to give money to homeless people as non Christians. Really means nothing because there are so many frauds who beg for money that it is unwise in most people to give beggars money. Since there is no way of knowing if you are simply giving money to be wasted on drugs or alcohol two of the major reasons for homelessness giving money may not be doing anyone any good. What they statistics don’t note is that Christians do give more to charities and those organizations in turn help the homeless etc.

From the Barna Group Article: American Lifestyles Mix Compassion and Self-Oriented Behavior

The Role of Faith
Faith commitments sometimes play a role in what people do - but less often than might be assumed. In comparing the lifestyle choices of born again Christians to the national norms, there were more areas of similarity than distinction. (Note that in Barna surveys, the born again segment is not based upon whether a person uses that label, but based upon their profession of faith in Christ and confession of personal sin.) Born again Christians are more likely to volunteer for their church; however, they are no more likely than average to help the poor and homeless. Born again Christians were also among the least likely groups to recycle.

In evaluating 15 moral behaviors, born again Christians are statistically indistinguishable from non-born again adults on most of the behaviors studied. They are less likely to view sexually explicit movies and magazines, to use profanity in public, and to buy a lottery ticket. However, even in these cases, the gap between born agains and the norm is not wide - roughly one-third of the non-born again audience say they had engaged in the three activities compared to one-quarter of born again Christians.

The fourth area of difference is the lower rate of music piracy among born again Christians (2% versus 9% among non-born agains).

What is interesting is just how perceptions play such a large part in any poll. Speaking of the recycling issue earlier the "Americans think of themselves as recyclers. The most commonly practiced of the 20 activities is recycling some used product or material. Three-quarters of Americans have done this in the past month (74%)." Most of us a quite aware of how few things we really recycle yet because most Garbage Disposal companies provide recycle bins with the garbage service Americans feel they are recyclers. I have little doubt that the most sincere environmentalists would not class these people as recyclers. This is a similar concept that we see in the Community Christian Churches article about Christians.

The answer is not to discard the word Christian but to practice the concepts of Christianity. Never cave into the secular media’s propaganda that Christians are hypocrites and uneducated buffoons. As Bill O’Reilly has well stated we are in a culture war with “Secular Progressives” and if you allow them to define the terms it matters little what you believe because it will be reinterpreted for other purposes.

I like the video’s and will probably try to use some of them in our Youth department. Videos are an art form and as such subject to various interpretations so they can very legitimately be used even if the ideas behind them are shortsighted. Take some time to check out their other videos.
 
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Babymine

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Who owns the definition of who I am? I can assure you it is not a man, not a mere man who needs dictionaries to define things, and that would include me, Im not a man, but you get the point. I may own the way I carry myself, I may own a thought of what I think I am. But even then there is only one who knows all. He does not have to think about what something may be. He does not need a dictionary to define anything, and I pray every day that He will guide me in His will, not one that I have created for myself. (One of the most difficult things ever sometimes)

All this church business of this versus that within the church is extra. (to me)
And extra confusing. (to many)

Who owns the definition of me- only God, and I feel that if I am true to Him, true to myself in Him, and good to other people. What he defines me as will be ok.

And ultimately all that matters.
 
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