What's going on here??

[AuburnSky]

Ephesians 2:8
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--"

So, the belief in God comes from God.. (this does go along with the whole predestination thing)
So.. all good things comes from God, and all bad things come from Satan..

..so where do we fit in here? It kind of sounds like we're just along for the ride, haha. What meaningful choices can humans make then? If even the faith that saves us comes from God, then why doesn't he give such saving faith to everyone? (Or does he?)
Any thoughts?

(I know that what we do definitely matters, because we are what we believe and do. But, apparently, our belief in God.. comes from God? Do we choose then, to accept or reject that belief in God that he himself offers?)

 

[19Duggarfan]

Ephesians 2:8
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--"

So, the belief in God comes from God.. (this does go along with the whole predestination thing)
So.. all good things comes from God, and all bad things come from Satan..

..so where do we fit in here? It kind of sounds like we're just along for the ride, haha. What meaningful choices can humans make then? If even the faith that saves us comes from God, then why doesn't he give such saving faith to everyone? (Or does he?)
Any thoughts?

(I know that what we do definitely matters, because we are what we believe and do. But, apparently, our belief in God.. comes from God? Do we choose then, to accept or reject that belief in God that he himself offers?)

IMO you have misread this statement. Grace is the gift of God, not whether we accept it or not. God is very gentle He will not force anything on anybody. But we can not manufacture or own Grace, Christ Jesus did that by making a way for us to receive that Grace which is the true Gift of God, Romans 5:16-21; 6:23.

Many seem to forget that God does not control us as robots, but He does have foreknowledge so yes He knows who will and will not accept Him, but I believe His Spirit strives with all men and women to bring them to His Son Jesus Christ. This is why God pleas for people to break up the fallow ground of our hearts, Matthew 13:7-9; 22-23; Jeremiah 4:3; Hosea 10:12.

8) And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear; let him hear.
15) But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Luke 8:8; 15

The gift of Grace is fully from God, but whether or not we accept this gift is of ourselves and how we receive it in our hearts.

 

[Emmy]

Dear AuburnSky. You may well ask, so much is said. In Matthew 22: 35-40:
Jesus tells us straightforward and in easy to understand words. Jesus tells a
Lawyer: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus states this very fact: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." God is Love, and God wants loving children/sons and daughters.
Jesus will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will empower us with His Love, also. Here is what we do! We ask for this Love and Joy, and Jesus told us where. ( Matthew 7: 7-8 We ask God for Love and Joy, and then thank God, and then share it all with our neighbour: all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends. God will see our sincere efforts, and God will approve and bless us. We keep asking God and thanking God, and then sharing all Love and Joy with our neighbour. We might stumble or forget sometimes, but then we ask God to forgive us, and carry on loving and caring.
A Christian`s great weapon is Love, with Love we overcome all enmity and wrong behaviour.
The Bible tells us to " Repent," to change our selfishness for Love and Compassion. Then we use it to be sign-posts to God our Heaveny Father.
To start it will be a bit hard to stick to, but Love is very catching, and the people around us will treat us the same, as we treat the people: kindly and
always with friendly words, or the occasional helping hand. Jesus will help and guide us: JESUS IS THE WAY. We will gradually become the men and women which God wants. I say this with love, AuburnSky. Greetings from
Emmy, your sister in Christ. P.S. Ask God and thank God and show this imperfect world that we have a wonderful Saviour.

 

[fhansen]

Ephesians 2:8
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--"

So, the belief in God comes from God.. (this does go along with the whole predestination thing)
So.. all good things comes from God, and all bad things come from Satan..

..so where do we fit in here? It kind of sounds like we're just along for the ride, haha. What meaningful choices can humans make then? If even the faith that saves us comes from God, then why doesn't he give such saving faith to everyone? (Or does he?)
Any thoughts?

(I know that what we do definitely matters, because we are what we believe and do. But, apparently, our belief in God.. comes from God? Do we choose then, to accept or reject that belief in God that he himself offers?)

All bad things come from rejecting God's will in favor of our own wills. Sin is disobedience of God. So in this life we're to come to make choices: life or death, good or evil, God's will or mine. To put it another way, we're here to learn of the perfect wisdom of God, so we may turn and follow Him, ultimately agreeing with Him in will.

 

[pshun2404]

Ephesians 2:8
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--"

So, the belief in God comes from God.. (this does go along with the whole predestination thing)
So.. all good things comes from God, and all bad things come from Satan..

..so where do we fit in here? It kind of sounds like we're just along for the ride, haha. What meaningful choices can humans make then? If even the faith that saves us comes from God, then why doesn't he give such saving faith to everyone? (Or does he?)
Any thoughts?

(I know that what we do definitely matters, because we are what we believe and do. But, apparently, our belief in God.. comes from God? Do we choose then, to accept or reject that belief in God that he himself offers?)

Faith is not the gift of God not of yourselves referred to here (that is a modern evangelical Christian imposition) salvation is...does this help?

This salvation is by grace through faith...it is a gift because even if we believe or faithe, God owes us nothing for all have sinned...by grace in His sovereign plan He has required belief as the appropriate response...it is His decision that though this again by grace that He would save...faith to faith...glory to glory...

Ephesians 1:13 tells us (and many other places) "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise"

See the sequence? God comes to us by the Spirit in the word (totally by grace)....those who believe (the whosoever will that may come) are then (note the word "after") sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise (hence are saved unto the day of redemption) which is totally by grace...

By grace He makes Himself known to us
We receive or reject (as in Romans 1)
Then (John 1:12) to as many as receive Him...to them He gives the right to BECOME the children of God...

Grammatically speaking, there is no agreement between “faith” and “gift.” Faith (pistis) in the Greek is in the feminine, while “gift” is in the neuter gender (never the twain shall meet). The verb "saved" is also in the neuter, thus is the gift.

In His love

Paul

 

[SalvationAtYourFingertips]

AuburnSky, you have great understanding. Everything good comes from God. The people who have replied here are angry that God has not given them sovereignty. God is sovereign, that means He is in control of everything. He does not bend to the will of man. He does not put His hand out for us and just beg that we accept Him. If we accept Him it is a gift from God.

 

[AuburnSky]

Thank you everyone for the replies! I'm looking forward to growing while we seek and share the truth of God together.

Emmy, I can tell you must be very sweet and you make an effort to genuinely love others; thank you for the positive words. I know that it is beyond important for us to love God & others, and that this is the summary of the commandments. At this point, I'm hoping to gain a deep, accurate understanding of these matters, because a deep, accurate understanding is from God, and it's a powerful tool to help others come to know Christ, and a powerful weapon to cut down lies.

19Duggarfan, truly God's grace is a gift (we obviously can't manufacture our own perfection, that's part of the necessity of Christ being the Lord).. and perhaps I have misread the verse, like pshun2404 suggested. ..but then, we receive God's grace by faith, and where does that faith come from? See, there's also this verse:

Romans 12:3
For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.

So I'm wondering.. does God distribute faith to each of us at birth? If this is the case, then faith is an innate possession of a conscious human being. (this is important to know for sharing the gospel accurately). Then, the question is not whether someone has faith, but where they've placed their faith.

Otherwise, as SalvationAtYourFingertips mentioned (and I hope no-one is actually angry ), if accepting God is a gift of God in itself, then that should affect the way we present the gospel to others. (which, honestly, I have no problem with, if it's true.)
Pshun2404, this wouldn't necessarily mean that God controls everyone like robots. ..but it would mean that the Love of God (or, the God that IS Love) controls everyone he chooses to control, and in Christ Jesus we thankfully have been given immense freedom. ..Not like robots, but like people possessed by the Holy Spirit. (I often pray for the Holy Spirit to possess me, and I'd actually like all my thoughts and actions to be controlled by Love. That's what we all hope for as Christians, right?)

..and, fhansen.. my goal is not to pick your words apart, but I would like to know whether there is truth behind what you're saying. I'm pretty sure bad things don't come from a verb ("rejecting"), right? What is it that you're actually trying to say? What do you think makes someone "reject God's will in favor of our own?" I'd imagine sinfulness does that, and I'm pretty sure Satan is the author of sin.

John 8:44
"...[Satan] is a liar and the father of lies."

Keep the thoughts coming ya'll!

 

[xxProdigalxx]

Ephesians 2:8
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--"

So, the belief in God comes from God.. (this does go along with the whole predestination thing)
So.. all good things comes from God, and all bad things come from Satan..

..so where do we fit in here? It kind of sounds like we're just along for the ride, haha. What meaningful choices can humans make then? If even the faith that saves us comes from God, then why doesn't he give such saving faith to everyone? (Or does he?)
Any thoughts?

(I know that what we do definitely matters, because we are what we believe and do. But, apparently, our belief in God.. comes from God? Do we choose then, to accept or reject that belief in God that he himself offers?)

you have been saved because God opened your heart and gave you an opportunity to be saved.

 

[AuburnSky]

you have been saved because God opened your heart and gave you an opportunity to be saved.

What do you think caused me to act on that opportunity? Was it God's ordinance, or my own choice as a free-willed being?

 

[xxProdigalxx]

What do you think caused me to act on that opportunity? Was it God's ordinance, or my own choice as a free-willed being?

God wants you to have free will, that's why he made the tree in Eden. Jesus says he knocks at the door which is your your heart but it's up to you to open up to Him. You make the choice, God doesn't make it for you. If you open the door, Jesus will come and eat with you. But... You gotta do it.

 

[AuburnSky]

That sounds right.
So then what about Romans 12:3, do you think God "distributes" some faith to everyone?

 

[xxProdigalxx]

That sounds right.
So then what about Romans 12:3, do you think God "distributes" some faith to everyone?

Faith comes after.

 

[fhansen]

..and, fhansen.. my goal is not to pick your words apart, but I would like to know whether there is truth behind what you're saying. I'm pretty sure bad things don't come from a verb ("rejecting"), right? What is it that you're actually trying to say? What do you think makes someone "reject God's will in favor of our own?" I'd imagine sinfulness does that, and I'm pretty sure Satan is the author of sin.

Satan's just a fellow sinner-with only so much power-I think you might be giving him too much "credit". Whatever made satan, originally another good creation of God, sin, is likely what makes us all sin. Otherwise we blame him for everything: "The devil made me do it", and take no moral responsibility. The rest of us now are here to decide, do we permanently follow satan and his ways/influence or do we turn back, and follow God? Grace can be resisted.

 

[AuburnSky]

Prodigal, "faith comes after?" ..After what, the choice? ..now that doesn't sound quite right. If not by faith, then by what would we make the choice to follow God and repent in the first place?

Thank you for sharing! Interesting fhansen.. but I don't think Satan is "just a fellow sinner." That makes him sound like someone rolling up to the liquor store. This is the "author of lies" we're talking about here. IS Satan truly to blame, and so shall truly be condemned? (if so, then those who follow him will share that condemnation, just like those who follow Jesus will share his glory)
Yeah you can give Satan the blame all you want, and, might that be correct in the same way that giving God all the glory is correct?

 

[intojoy]

Yup He does it all. Everything.

 

[fhansen]

Prodigal, "faith comes after?" ..After what, the choice? ..now that doesn't sound quite right. If not by faith, then by what would we make the choice to follow God and repent in the first place?

Thank you for sharing! Interesting fhansen.. but I don't think Satan is "just a fellow sinner." That makes him sound like someone rolling up to the liquor store. This is the "author of lies" we're talking about here. IS Satan truly to blame, and so shall truly be condemned? (if so, then those who follow him will share that condemnation, just like those who follow Jesus will share his glory)
Yeah you can give Satan the blame all you want, and, might that be correct in the same way that giving God all the glory is correct?

No, we can't give satan all the blame-his power is as much as we're willing to give him-we do the rest. IOW, it generally doesn't take much tempting for us to fall ourselves, enticed by our own pride and desire for power, lust, possessions, etc. So while satan is just a creature: limited, finite, God's in a totally different league; His power and glory are infinite.

 

[xxProdigalxx]

Prodigal, "faith comes after?" ..After what, the choice? ..now that doesn't sound quite right. If not by faith, then by what would we make the choice to follow God and repent in the first place?

Repent because we heard and believed and then God saves us and then we trust in Him. Don't overthink all of this. You'll just confuse yourself. It's really a simple thing but scholars and bible teachers and pastors confuse it. Don't forget that Jesus says to be childlike and just accept it. A mother gives her child a candy and the child doesnt have a million questions about whats in the candy or where it came from or is it healthy. He just accepts it.

 

[intojoy]

Repentance sometimes is a false addition to salvation. In the context of the gospel message repentance is a synonym with faith.

 

[xxProdigalxx]

Repentance sometimes is a false addition to salvation. In the context of the gospel message repentance is a synonym with faith.

What? No it's not. If you fall into sin, you have to repent, turn away and get back on track. If you're never sorrowfull over sin that you live in then something is wrong.

 

[elopez]

Ephesians 2:8
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--"

so where do we fit in here? It kind of sounds like we're just along for the ride, haha. What meaningful choices can humans make then?

So what then do you make of the above Scripture which clearly states grace is a gift from God and not ourselves? Why are you disappointed in that!? I trust the idea of God controlling my salvation.

Does that mean any other choice I make is null? I don't see how...

If even the faith that saves us comes from God, then why doesn't he give such saving faith to everyone? (Or does he?)

He doesn't have to. And no, He does not.