What would you think of a pastor who used the pulpit to call an outside critic a 'moron?'

[topher694]

Do you preach?

Humour can be a very effective way of making a very serious point. Also, if one preaches for a long time without any change in mood or tone, people's attention drifts; but allowing for lighter moments and remarks helps keep them engaged.

The acceptability of the word "moron" from the pulpit might be debatable, but that there is a place for humour in preaching is, I would have said, a given.

This. 1000%

 

[mina]

It sounded a bit tacky rather than funny. There were better ( and even more humorous ) ways to express the same sort of idea. Like others have said, if it was just a one time attempt at a joke; I let it slide. If it's a regular part of his preaching to awkwardly insult people or things then it would concern me.

 

[Redwingfan9]

Do you preach?

Humour can be a very effective way of making a very serious point. Also, if one preaches for a long time without any change in mood or tone, people's attention drifts; but allowing for lighter moments and remarks helps keep them engaged.

The acceptability of the word "moron" from the pulpit might be debatable, but that there is a place for humour in preaching is, I would have said, a given.

It's not a matter of being a preacher. Church isn't an entertainment venue. It isn't a comedy club or a rock concert.

 

[topher694]

It's not a matter of being a preacher. Church isn't an entertainment venue. It isn't a comedy club or a rock concert.

Right and laughter is reserved only for comedy clubs... You're funny.

 

[Reborn1977]

The major church ministry this Christmas is to single moms in the city. The pastor decided to share some of the emails the church had received from people who knew about the effort, but were cynical. One man said, "How about single dads?" Another said, "You just want to get their money," presumably meaning, 'you just want to get them attending the church so they'll give regularly to the offering.'

The pastor then offered up to the congregation what he would have LIKED to have told the person....."THEY DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY...(pause).....YOU MORON!" and the place busted out in laughter.

I would describe it as a smaller church, with a pastor that has an above average sense of humor, always trying to be funny at some point in most sermons. At such times, I usually am first and loudest to laugh, but didn't laugh this time. I was tired, not having had enough sleep, plus it wasn't funny to me.

Most churches I've been in are much larger, and I can't imagine their pastors even mentioning apparent outsider hate email from the pulpit, much less resorting to name calling. Such outsiders must have been people at home who watch live over the Internet, or follow on social media. No one in attendance would have been the people being critical via email.

Do you think the pastor was out of line, or would you just chalk it up to human nature. He may have been using the congregation to vent frustrations. But still.....

P.S. - I wouldn't have put it past the pastor to have completely made up both stories. There is another instance in which I think he was lying to me about the issue of who exactly gets and reads the email that goes to the church's main 'info' email address. Unlike much larger churches in town that I know of, they won't put the pastor email addresses and photos on their web site.

A pastor who feels the need to label someone a moron who criticizes them reeks of insecurity in my view. When we are truly secure in who we A
are, God's calling on us, and in the gifts and abilities God has given us we don't really feel a great need to address our critics, we're more willing to allow God to take care of that.

 

[Paidiske]

It's not a matter of being a preacher. Church isn't an entertainment venue. It isn't a comedy club or a rock concert.

No, church isn't an entertainment venue, or a comedy club, or a rock concert.

That doesn't mean there's no place for humour in preaching.

After all, there is humour in the Scriptures themselves!

 

[FutureAndAHope]

The major church ministry this Christmas is to single moms in the city. The pastor decided to share some of the emails the church had received from people who knew about the effort, but were cynical. One man said, "How about single dads?" Another said, "You just want to get their money," presumably meaning, 'you just want to get them attending the church so they'll give regularly to the offering.'

The pastor then offered up to the congregation what he would have LIKED to have told the person....."THEY DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY...(pause).....YOU MORON!" and the place busted out in laughter.

I would describe it as a smaller church, with a pastor that has an above average sense of humor, always trying to be funny at some point in most sermons. At such times, I usually am first and loudest to laugh, but didn't laugh this time. I was tired, not having had enough sleep, plus it wasn't funny to me.

Most churches I've been in are much larger, and I can't imagine their pastors even mentioning apparent outsider hate email from the pulpit, much less resorting to name calling. Such outsiders must have been people at home who watch live over the Internet, or follow on social media. No one in attendance would have been the people being critical via email.

Do you think the pastor was out of line, or would you just chalk it up to human nature. He may have been using the congregation to vent frustrations. But still.....

P.S. - I wouldn't have put it past the pastor to have completely made up both stories. There is another instance in which I think he was lying to me about the issue of who exactly gets and reads the email that goes to the church's main 'info' email address. Unlike much larger churches in town that I know of, they won't put the pastor email addresses and photos on their web site.

This question has two sides.

1) The negative (against) - Human frustration, and an innate desire to react
2) The positive (for) - Jesus called the pharisees, snakes

I would say that if there is any sin in this it is rather small. Human nature is such that if we get rubbed up the wrong way we tend to react against it. The bible does say however, "don't get angry when people bring to pass wicked schemes for God will be exulted in the earth, for anger only tendeth to harm". This basically means don't react when people do evil for God's honor will be maintained. our anger just makes people hate us more.

However that said Jesus was known to put out some rather choice words when dealing with the teachers of the law who opposed him, calling them snakes, and tomes full of dead mans bones.

It was probably a little inappropriate to name call in church, but not a sin, nor anything to be worried about.

 

[justme6272]

Given that he announced it as a joke when saying the word,

He didn't announce it as a joke. He said the whole thing (including the dramatic pause and punchline) in a very serious, premeditated way, and didn't laugh or smile after he said it, even after the congregation laughed louder than I've ever heard them laugh at anything. He normally interjects more spontaneous one-liners, such as....

"that first service is a tough crowd but you guys are ok", or
"this side of the room didn't get that (points to left), but I'm glad this side is with me." (points to right). Normally there are at most a few chuckles.

I think most people laughed cause they just like him, and perhaps there was some shock value to it, like "can you believe he actually said that? haha").

It's the smallest church I've ever been a part of and I think pastors of smaller churches can get away with more without seeing a drop off in attendance compared to a megachurch where most people there have never even stood within 3 feet of the pastor and will leave over the drop of a hat and not come back. A drawback is that smaller churches typically lack any growth, but that's fine with people who like an 'everybody knows everybody' atmosphere and just as soon not have it grow. I can maybe see a visitor or newcomer not like the pastor now and say 'this church is not for me,' but I'd be very surprised if anyone who has been around awhile will leave just over the pastor's sometimes zaniness, or as he likes to say, 'the cheese slid off the cracker.' It's a very laid back, casual, informal church. It's been around long enough to see that it's as big as it's going to get.
It seems like the more conventional, institutional churches are the ones that grow cause they're more cognizant of how every little thing might be perceived by visitors, and they work harder to keep up an image that won't offend anyone.

Another megachurch in the area has huge growth, planting new locations every year. Again, I can't imagine the pastor at their main location wasting even a few seconds in the pulpit to share and acknowledge the cynical communication of an anonymous person whose comments they clearly despise.

 

[justme6272]

.......

 

[JackRT]

What would you think of a pastor who used the pulpit to call an outside critic a 'moron?'

Contempt.

 

[Albion]

He didn't announce it as a joke. He said the whole thing (including the dramatic pause and punchline) in a very serious, premeditated way, and didn't laugh or smile after he said it, even after the congregation laughed louder than I've ever heard them laugh at anything. He normally interjects more spontaneous one-liners, such as....

Okay, but that's not how your original post made it seem.

 

[aiki]

So you want to work from the assumption of guilty until proven innocent, fine, doesn't sound like a pattern of good works for you

Uh huh.

You're right, it's not on par, it was worse.

Uh huh.

As to the rest of it, it's just a bunch of justifications and misrepresentations of what I said, and I'm not going to waste my time on it, especially today. Titus 3 also tells us to avoid foolish disputes, and in my opinion this qualifies.

Uh huh. Right.

Yes we are to treat people with dignity and respect, absolutely. But being a pastor or leader doesn't mean being a punching bag.

Tell that to Jesus! He was the Creator of the universe and he was a punching bag! Good grief! What an odd idea of Christian living you've got!

If this person anonymously accused him and his church of attempting to exploit single mothers for financial gain, that is a awful, baseless allegation and that person is a moron,

Uh huh. Good thing you aren't a pastor. You aren't, are you?

I wouldn't say it from the pulpit myself, but if you had any idea how much total rubbish pastors get accused of that you never ever hear about, but respond just once and look out!

Well, let's see...my Dad was a pastor; so was my grandfather; so are two of my brothers. I'm an elder at my church. I think I've got a pretty good idea of what it's like to be pastor.

It's remarkable how many people who know nothing of what it takes to lead a church or stand behind a pulpit are experts at it.

This is the problem with making assumptions about the lives of strangers. You have no idea what the content or character of their lives actually are. It turns out I do know quite well what it takes to lead and have stood behind a pulpit to preach a great many times. How about you?

 

[Paidiske]

Good thing you aren't a pastor. You aren't, are you?

You might want to check your assumptions there...

Well, let's see...my Dad was a pastor; so was my grandfather; so are two of my brothers. I'm an elder at my church. I think I've got a pretty good idea of what it's like to be pastor.

Honestly, until you live it, you really don't know. You can observe it from the outside, and you can get some idea. But the reality of carrying that identity, wherever you go and whatever you're doing; the burden of the confidential things you hear and can never repeat; the difficulties of the way people respond to you, and the costliness of caring for them even when it wounds you... you can't know it without doing it. I am finding that it is taking me years to grow into it.

 

[topher694]

Uh huh. Good thing you aren't a pastor. You aren't, are you?

LOL, Yeeeeeah. Senior Pastor Chris here, nice to meet you.

Well, let's see...my Dad was a pastor; so was my grandfather; so are two of my brothers. I'm an elder at my church. I think I've got a pretty good idea of what it's like to be pastor.

As someone who has been on both sides, I assure you, you don't have a good idea what it's like to be a senior pastor. Many people think they do, including you yourself before you do it, but they are all wrong. Every single senior pastor I have ever spoken to knows this. Even being an associate is not the same.

This is the problem with making assumptions about the lives of strangers. You have no idea what the content or character of their lives actually are. It turns out I do know quite well what it takes to lead and have stood behind a pulpit to preach a great many times. How about you?

Lost count after 500 or so. But leading a church is far, faaaaaaar more than preaching. Preaching is like less than 10 percent. And I've done it all, down to cleaning the toilets because it needed to be done and there was no one else.

So, to be clear. I was not making assumptions about the lives of strangers. I was speaking about the assumptions others, including strangers, have made about my life.


Perhaps I've been a bit sharper today than I might usually be. If so, that is because my grandfather - whom I was very close to - passed away today. And you know what happens when you are a pastor? You actually consider how people will judge you if you don't act up to some sort of standard when you are grieving the same as anyone else. I know cause I experienced it last year when by father passed, the day before father's day and I had to preach the next day. Most people are great, but certain eyes actually are just watching and waiting for you to be at your weakest and make a mistake so they can pounce and criticize. Just like certain morons just watch and see that you are doing outreach for single moms and find a way to villainize and misrepresent your attempt to show compassion and generosity to your community, just sitting back making assumptions about things they don't have the slightest clue about.

 

[Paidiske]

I'm sorry for your losses, @topher694. Hope you have some good support around you this week.

 

[anna ~ grace]

What kind of theology does the Pastor generally teach / preach about? What are his major themes in sermons?

 

[topher694]

I'm sorry for your losses, @topher694. Hope you have some good support around you this week.

Much appreciated! We got some great people around us.

 

[justme6272]

What kind of theology does the Pastor generally teach / preach about? What are his major themes in sermons?

Typically starts with a scripture reference, talks about that for 10-15 minutes, then inevitably veers off into a street preacher type of generic message that's a repeat of what he says each time, lasting an additional 40-45 minutes. He's probably been saying the same things for many years.
i.e. the world is sinful, people are lost, gays think they can marry, morality has decayed, just driving on the freeway is a very worldly place to be, heaven will be so much better than here, etc. Not really anything we all don't already know, but we get to listen to twice a week if we choose to go. Neither the music nor the teaching is a good reason to attend. I think people go cause they like the people there, it's informal, and the theology isn't off the deep end. I think location and church size are two big reasons too. I think few people would make the drive if it were 30 minutes away from where it is. Driving long distances to church is something much more people were willing to do back in the day, but now it seems they all want to be within 20 minutes. Looking back to when I was a kid, I can't believe people drove as far as they did to attend a certain church, and many did it three times per week. Gas was a lot cheaper then too, so that may have something to do with it.

 

[justme6272]

.....

 

[Dave L]

The major church ministry this Christmas is to single moms in the city. The pastor decided to share some of the emails the church had received from people who knew about the effort, but were cynical. One man said, "How about single dads?" Another said, "You just want to get their money," presumably meaning, 'you just want to get them attending the church so they'll give regularly to the offering.'

The pastor then offered up to the congregation what he would have LIKED to have told the 2nd person....."THEY DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY...(pause).....YOU MORON!" and the place busted out in laughter.

I would describe it as a smaller church, with a pastor that has an above average sense of humor, always trying to be funny at some point in most sermons. At such times, I usually am first and loudest to laugh, but didn't laugh this time. I was tired, not having had enough sleep, plus it wasn't funny to me.

Most churches I've been in are much larger, and I can't imagine their pastors even mentioning apparent outsider hate email from the pulpit, much less resorting to name calling. Such outsiders must have been people at home who watch live over the Internet, or follow on social media. No one in attendance would have been the people being critical via email.

Do you think the pastor was out of line, or would you just chalk it up to human nature? He may have been using the congregation to vent frustrations. But still.....

P.S. - I wouldn't have put it past the pastor to have completely made up both stories. There is another instance in which I think he was lying to me about the issue of who exactly gets and reads the email that goes to the church's main 'info' email address. Unlike some much larger churches in town that I know of, they won't put the pastor email addresses and photos on their staff web page.

He didn't call the guy a moron, he said he would have liked to call him a moron. Big difference.