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I am perfectly happy if I drink too much. But that doesn't change the poison a bit. I am still harming my body and wasting my time gifted me. Drug addicts use drugs to improve their lives and relieve pain. It helps them be happy.Demonstrably false. You have plenty of nonbelievers who can tell you they're perfectly happy with their lives.
I kind of assumed you would start a thread on it so as not to derail a current one.
Plenty of atheists will tell you that they are happy in a healthy way. And their lifestyles can attest to it.I am perfectly happy if I drink too much. But that doesn't change the poison a bit. I am still harming my body and wasting my time gifted me. Drug addicts use drugs to improve their lives and relieve pain. It helps them be happy.
It's like saying that if you do not believe in Santa, you are going to miss out on all of his presents.
These threads are getting quite bulky, Philo. I'm keeping up with people by checking my alerts. Please could you give me a link to the post you've started off in?Uh, no. I've placed it just where it fits best, and I've made the necessary [EDIT] to that thread so that it is now fully suitable to fitting that task.......................so carry on, IA, "Let's Take a Leap" together!
All I can do here is politely tell you you've got the passage completely wrong in how you guess at the meaning. (it's not even slightly about hand washing in any way, and no doubt at all in my mind that often the disciples did wash their hands, as convenient (when water was available) and needed at at times (when hands seemed to need it in their own view) -- so I'm merely trying to give you a chance to wonder if you missed something, which is about as much as I can do here I'm guessing. Unless you have a sense there is more, I'm just wasting time to talk about it.)the point about hand washing stands. You are the one bent on not seeing that Jesus was clearly wrong there. His disciples ate with unwashed hands and Jesus condones the practice instead of telling those people that washing hands often is a very good idea. I bet you wash your hands before eating, cause you know better.
especially considering Jesus ate laying down presumably on the floor.
point is, no sane Christian follows the teachings on giving up own wealth and giving to everyone who asks.
This idea of loving others as your self is meaningless. You will always take care of your self and family before taking care of neighbors and their kids. Let’s be real here. Jesus’ teachings are worthless.
These threads are getting quite bulky, Philo. I'm keeping up with people by checking my alerts. Please could you give me a link to the post you've started off in?
Looking forward to reading it, but I'm afraid it's bed time again here, so there will be a delay.
Goodnight!
All I can do here is politely tell you you've got the passage completely wrong in how you guess at the meaning.
Yeah ... and of course there are those saying we are the planet of the apes ;o)
We are a planet of primates, many of whom think that because they have learned to read one ancient book (albeit with questionable interpretations), they can ignore all others that disagree with it.
And I politely point you to the actual text, where 'unwashed hands' is explicitly mentioned!
Mark 7:1
It's amazing you don't see that text literally but love your neighbor IS literal?
I've no doubt the disciples might wash their hands when needed, when water was available.
To get the meaning of this Mark chapter 7 passage -- verses 1 through 23, all -- adopt a radically different attitude.
Think to yourself that you don't yet know what Jesus is conveying, and try to truly listen. That's humble to do.
That's the nature of mankind .... we question everything ... scientists don't agree among themselves either ... fact is ... creation or evolution are both theories and there are various "interpretations" (theories) put forth regarding our beginning.
Fact is .... they are all theories.
Well, please don't speak for ALL of the religious here. You're kind of getting ahead of yourself.Religious people KNOW! there is a God. Religious people laugh at evolution because their book says that God created everything. Bible says it and it settles it. Scientists question, but there are no mysteries for the religious.
No, unbelief is the opposite of belief and faith. Doubt is simply a human complexity that has various shades to it; some of it disturbs faith, some of it instead spurs a response seeking understanding. So, maybe think about expanding and revising your philosophical assumptions in all of this, BigV.Doubt is a good thing, except if you are religious, because then doubt is of the devil.
Religious people KNOW! there is a God. Religious people laugh at evolution because their book says that God created everything. Bible says it and it settles it. Scientists question, but there are no mysteries for the religious.
Doubt is a good thing, except if you are religious, because then doubt is of the devil.
The update may or may not be worth it, but here is an approximation of what I wrote and lost:Beliefs that cannot be or aren't justified cannot be held with integrity.
ETA: The preceding was, ahem, preceded by a full paragraph after quoting @InterestedAtheist. I lost that; sorry. If I have time later, I'll update.
This. Very much this.So I suppose the answer to "What did you sell your faith for?" is "intellectual integrity."
Beliefs that cannot be or aren't justified cannot be held with integrity.
Thank you for taking the trouble to reconstruct that, Tinker!The update may or may not be worth it, but here is an approximation of what I wrote and lost:
This. Very much this.
The end of my Christian life was preceded by a decade long attempt to form a coherent theology that accounted for reality as I perceived it while maintaining Christianity in a recognizable way.
At some point, though I didn't articulate it this way until later, I recognized what for me is a fundamental axiom of thought: All axioms are inductive -- including this one.
What I mean is that we adopt things as axioms because those are things that we've experienced as being true.
The axioms that were required for me to be a Christian lacked that inductive-ness. For me, there is no experience of Jesus being real, right here, right now; there is no experience of this person being 100% divine and 100% human; there is no experience of trinity, heaven, hell, nor of any god at all. Any experience I may have thought I had was a "one-off". One cannot adduce the truth a proposed axiom from a one-off. Induction doesn't work that way.
Without this induction, belief in a proposed axiom is not justified.
(This, then, was the last sentence.)
He is talking about something far more important than the made-up customs (the particular one here actually not one from God to begin with also, not the ceremonial washing God did specify, but instead their own invented tradition -- read the passage.)Of course, Mark 7 talks about ceremonial washing, that was part of Old Testament teaching, btw, that Jesus, who came to 'fulfil', instead just explains away.
Note also, that in the context of explaining what defiles a person, Jesus overrules all Old Testament dietary laws.
But that's beside the point. In that case, disciples were eating with unwashed hands, and Jesus doesn't say that washing hands before eating is a good idea.
Think about it. He could have said that washing or not washing hands has nothing to do with defilement that comes from within, but still, washing hands is a very good idea for hygenic reasons!
Jesus doesn't advise this at all. And you are simply trying to save Jesus from the terrible advice he has left the people with. Imagine how many people could have been helped if Jesus simply said that washing hands is a very good idea before eating and after bathroom.
But alas.
Kenny, you're getting yourself wound up all over nothing.
No, it's not all an Evil Atheist Conspiracy.
Insecurity? Only in your own mind, Kenny.
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