What would you do?

[Ram]

I strongly disagree. The individual has proven himself to be a mortal danger to society - mass murder, etc. So, the individual is incarcerated and isolated from society - permanently, if necessary. That's justice. The death sentence is nothing more than revenge and hypocrisy - killing to show that killing is wrong. Sorry, Ram, I'm with Rae and others on this one.

OK, that is your view. I would still uphold death sentence for the worst criminals - like Osama, Saddam etc. If you give them a chance to live, they might even escape prison and get back to their old ways. Worst cold blooded killers forfeit their right to live, for the benefit of others. Do you think a terrorist like Osama deserves anything less than a death sentence?

Maybe, but human beings aren't. No human being should kill another in the name of God. EVER. We have far too much of that in our history as it is. If God wants Person X dead, then he has the power to do so without resorting to humans.

Plus, don't you think it would be kind of odd that God would go against his own laws? Surely, we can all agree that God does not approve of murder. How then, could anyone conceive of God giving the order to murder?

In Gita, Krishna asks Arjuna to kill his opponents, even when they were his guru and grandfather. The actions of god are not questionable. There the objective was to establish righteousness. Without god exhorting him to do so, Arjuna would have quit the war. Though it is wrong to kill ones own grandfather and teacher, God asked him to do it because it served a bigger cause - the eradication of evil. Human beings cannot grasp the bigger scheme of things like god. Krishna could have done it himself, he did not. Krishna could have stopped the war, he did not. God always acts thru humans. If god ever approved a killing, it is bound to be a fair one.

Actually, that's a good thing. It's good that more people look into their own conscience and the laws of their god(s) rather than simply believe voices in one's head and carry out murder.

Yes! Blind Faith or Justice? The vote should always go to Justice.

 

[Hydra009]

OK, that is your view. I would still uphold death sentence for the worst criminals - like Osama, Saddam etc. If you give them a chance to live, they might even escape prison and get back to their old ways. Worst cold blooded killers forfeit their right to live, for the benefit of others. Do you think a terrorist like Osama deserves anything less than a death sentence?

Eh, there's a part of me that wants them dead. But a greater part of me wants them to face justice. I'm kinda happy that people like Milosevic and Saddam Hussein are facing tribunals for what they have done, versus people like Hitler and Stalin, who escaped justice. Just simply shooting Milosevic and Saddam makes them seem more heroic than they deserve. Why break the body when you can break the ideology?

God always acts thru humans.

Don't you think that this is a tad suspicious?

IMO, it is not God acting through people, but people acting through themselves, and claiming that God is acting through them.

 

[I_are_sceptical]

Yikes!

Some of the responses make me feel less than safe with Christians.

I chose "obey implicitly, no questions asked" and I belong to a non-Christian religion.

 

[Hydra009]

I chose "obey implicitly, no questions asked" and I belong to a non-Christian religion.

Unfair generalization noted. Really, that was just my initial reaction after reading a few obey posts.

 

[I_are_sceptical]

Why isn't there a selection "Punch God in the face for even suggesting this" ?

http://www.cramercenter.com/bdwyhtmls/yourarms.html

 

[I_are_sceptical]

Unfair generalization noted. Really, that was just my initial reaction after reading a few obey posts.

You are not the first person who has failed to notice the yellow-and-green icon for "other religion" at the top of my posts.

 

[Hydra009]

You are not the first person who has failed to notice the yellow-and-green icon for "other religion" at the top of my posts.

No, I notice it. I must have missed your post entirely. Sorry.

 

[Ram]

Eh, there's a part of me that wants them dead. But a greater part of me wants them to face justice. I'm kinda happy that people like Milosevic and Saddam Hussein are facing tribunals for what they have done, versus people like Hitler and Stalin, who escaped justice. Just simply shooting Milosevic and Saddam makes them seem more heroic than they deserve. Why break the body when you can break the ideology?

What is the point in keeping a person who has proved to be a nemesis for mankind in a prison at the expense of the taxpayer's money? The money spent on diehard criminals can be used for the welfare of people who need it. Billions of dollars are spend annually on just maintaining notorious criminals, while millions die of starvation.

In case of terrorists, we need to break both the body and their idealogy.

 

[Rae]

life without parole is equally barbaric.

--Nope. You're wrong. Again.

your intention is to torture the criminal for life?

--What did I say about assuming what I mean? You're a very poor psychic, Ram. I never said anything about torturing anyone. Keeping someone in prison does not equal torture by any reasonable definition.

How is that compatible with morality?

--How is it compatible with morality to kill Rolando Cruz for a crime he didn't commit and to find out five years later that he didn't do it? At least with LWP he'd still be alive when the evidence that exonerated him came out, no?

All criminals are aware of getting caught

--But they don't think it will happen to them. Like I said, all objective studies, not subjective opinions from Ram who likes killing people for crimes he thinks they committed, show that the death penalty is not a deterrent to crime. Unless you want to offer objective evidence for your subjective opinion, don't bother offering it because I'll just dismiss it.

 

[Bevlina]

Maybe, but human beings aren't. No human being should kill another in the name of God. EVER. We have far too much of that in our history as it is. If God wants Person X dead, then he has the power to do so without resorting to humans.

Far, by far too much of that in history. I don't believe any man has the right to spill human blood of another person. I can't really go along with the death sentence, but then again, we don't have it in Australia. Is it an absolute deterrant to crime? I don't think so.

 

[Ram]

Like I said, all objective studies, not subjective opinions from Ram who likes killing people for crimes he thinks they committed, show that the death penalty is not a deterrent to crime. Unless you want to offer objective evidence for your subjective opinion, don't bother offering it because I'll just dismiss it.

I dont like killing ppl. Read the older posts, my death sentence applies only serial killers, terrorists etc. Not for any crime. A person who has no value for human life and kills for fun and pleasure - why do you want to provide him free food and accomodation for life? This money can be used for the malnourished victims in Somalia or the quake victims in Indonesia. Makes sense? Yes or no, death sentences exist in many countries and the law authorities in those countries know better than us. In India, capital punishment exists, but used very sparingly, and only for very serious crimes. A poll was conducted in India if it needs to be eliminated, it got very poor public support. Only 10% voted against the death sentence, and it still remains in India. People in India definitely did not want to see the Jihad terrorists alive, I suppose.

 

[MachineGod]

If Freedom is worth dying for, then surely taking that freedom away is better punishment than death.

 

[Rae]

A person who has no value for human life and kills for fun and pleasure - why do you want to provide him free food and accomodation for life?

Oh, so suddenly life in prison isn't "torture," eh, Ram?

How about for this reason: To show that we aren't the immoral people that he/she is. To show compassion and kindness. To live the love and mercy of the Gods. To acknowledge that we might be wrong. Even you admit innocent people are convicted of crimes they don't commit. Heck, check out the "Texas may have executed an innocent man" threat in News here to see for yourself that a man who was killed for a horrible crime, killing his three children through arson, may actually have been innocent and was convicted using outdated theories.

I think that all of the above are good enough reasons to eliminate the death penalty. To show we don't support petty revenge and hatred.

death sentences exist in many countries and the law authorities in those countries know better than us.

Speak for yourself. I've done a lot of research into the death penalty and have concluded that people who support it honestly don't know what they're talking about. It is racially biased, punishes the innocent, and supports a vengeful mindset that we should strive to eliminate, not to support by continuing with the death penalty.

Besides, yes, life without parole is cheaper than going through the death penalty process.

 

[Hydra009]

Makes sense? Yes or no, death sentences exist in many countries and the law authorities in those countries know better than us.

The obvious counterpoint is that the death penalty doesn't exist in many countries and the law authorities in those countries know better than us.

Check it out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Death_Penalty_World_Map.png

The death penalty does not exist in Canada, Mexico, almost all of Europe, Australia, the southern part of Africa, part of South/Central America, and many other countries are abolishionist in practice or reserve it only for war crimes. Even in the death penalty-supporting United States, the number of executions varies wildly in the states. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States In North Carolina, the NC Senate passed a bill last year to place a 2-year moritorium on the death penalty.

In India, capital punishment exists, but used very sparingly, and only for very serious crimes.

That's very true. In India, there has been one execution in 2004, with no executions at all between 1991 and 2004, and about 40 executions between 1975 and 1991.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_India

FYI, here are the world figures on # of executions per country: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_death_penalty_worldwide (Check out China)

A poll was conducted in India if it needs to be eliminated, it got very poor public support. Only 10% voted against the death sentence, and it still remains in India.

Same thing here in the U.S. The majority of people support the death penalty. (but, I've noticed, when you add the possibility of life in prison, that number drops significantly) http://www.pollingreport.com/crime.htm#Death The majority also believes that UFOs are real (http://www.cnn.com/US/9706/15/ufo.poll/) and the plurality believes that "God created man pretty much in his present form at one time within the last 10,000 years." (http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_publi.htm)

(sorry for the vast amount of links, just citing my sources)

 

[Ram]

Oh, so suddenly life in prison isn't "torture," eh, Ram?

Torture is relating to the mind not the body. And yes, you dont know about Indian Jails. Think it is an air conditioned apartment here? In India, a life sentence is about far worse than a death sentence. Jails have poor quality food, hygiene, and they may provide a small matress and no pillows to sleep on. And lots of mosquitoes to accompany you in sleep. It is 200% worse than a death sentence.

How about for this reason: To show that we aren't the immoral people that he/she is. To show compassion and kindness. To live the love and mercy of the Gods. To acknowledge that we might be wrong. Even you admit innocent people are convicted of crimes they don't commit. Heck, check out the "Texas may have executed an innocent man" threat in News here to see for yourself that a man who was killed for a horrible crime, killing his three children through arson, may actually have been innocent and was convicted using outdated theories.

Some amount of injustice will happen in the world. We cannot spare blood thirsty bandits just for that. And no amount of your compassion will melt the hearts of the likes of Osama.

Speak for yourself. I've done a lot of research into the death penalty and have concluded that people who support it honestly don't know what they're talking about. It is racially biased, punishes the innocent, and supports a vengeful mindset that we should strive to eliminate, not to support by continuing with the death penalty.

Hindu religion has been founded on the principle of ahimsa(non violence) just like Buddhism. It preaches total non violence even towards animals and for these reasons most Hindus are plant eaters. But it has upheld the capital punishment. Certainly the lawmakers in Hinduism knew what they were doing. Let me just give an example of what typically would happen in India if you just give a life sentence to a Kashmiri terrorist in India.

A terrorists bombs a bridge resulting in a collapse and the death of 100 people. He is caught and now sentenced to life in prison. What will his accomplices do to release him? Simple, they kidnap the daughter of an influential person(like a minsiter) and demand the release of this terrorist. What does Indian Government do? They release the bridge bomber back to the terrorists to save the ministers daughter. The bridge bomber bombs another bridge...This is what happens when you dont finish off terrorists. You are showing compassion towards people who dont deserve it. People who ever witness horrible crimes only understand the implications. This story is not hypothetical. It repeats with remarkable frequency in India. These terrorists and serial killers dont deserve an iota of compassion.

Besides, yes, life without parole is cheaper than going through the death penalty process.

Huh, that is a loophole in your system when you wait on the death roll for dozens of years. In many countries it takes only a few months from sentencing to execution. No extra expense. Hanging requires just a piece of rope. Much cheaper compared to food and lodging for 40 years. And yes you have to take care of the criminals medical bills.

 

[LibertyChic]

/me wonders how this became a death penalty thread?

 

[Green Man]

Capital PUNISHMENT,The Death PENALTY.It's not supposed to be a deterrent.Was the threat of punishment as a child enough to keep you out of trouble?

 

[Rae]

Certainly the lawmakers in Hinduism knew what they were doing.

If they support the death penalty, they certainly don't.

Some amount of injustice will happen in the world. We cannot spare blood thirsty bandits just for that.

Sure we can. You just don't want to.

no amount of your compassion will melt the hearts of the likes of Osama.

Maybe, maybe not, but more compassion will prevent more people becoming LIKE Osama. If you don't care about prevention, of course, by all means keep murdering people to show that murdering people is wrong...

In many countries it takes only a few months from sentencing to execution.

And in those countries they execute even more innocents than we do in the U.S. because they have even fewer safeguards against doing so. How wonderful. How likely to stop terrorism that is. ::rolls eyes::

You're not going to get me to agree that killing people is ever okay, Ram. All you're doing is confirming for me that your position is wrong and that I will keep fighting against it for the rest of my life.

 

[Hydra009]

* LibertyChic wonders how this became a death penalty thread?

Post #56.

If that was a rhetorical question, just forget I said anything.

 

[Green Man]

Quote:
no amount of your compassion will melt the hearts of the likes of Osama.


Maybe, maybe not, but more compassion will prevent more people becoming LIKE Osama.


Showing a bloodthirsty,heartless killer compassion only makes you a potential victim.