What would you do?

[ravenscape]

I'd just turn down the CD player.

Something tells me we're not listening to the same music

 

[tulc]

Something tells me we're not listening to the same music

That's funny I hear someone say "Kill your neighbor!" whenever Barry Manillow comes on the radio....even when it's not turned on!
tulc(no radios were damaged typing this post)

 

[ravenscape]

That's funny I hear someone say "Kill your neighbor!" whenever Barry Manillow comes on the radio....even when it's not turned on!
tulc(no radios were damaged typing this post)

Ummm, tulc?

Maybe you should ditch that radio. Or have an exorcism. It sounds possessed.

If you can't get rid of the radio, what about moving? Then whoever is exhorting someone to kill the Manilow junkie can just take a hammer to the radio after you're safely elsewhere.

raven (who thinks it would be ok to damage one radio for the sake of neighborly harmony -- sans Manilow)

 

[White Rabbit]

Obey immerdiately - like Abraham. Everything worked out for the best, and sinse it's the same God, there is no reason to think that He doesn't have the best in mind.

 

[Asar'el]

Abraham was in a very different position than any of us are today; I will repeat, there is no way to reconcile such a command with the revelation of the God of Christianity in our time. So... with regards to Christianity, at least, such a 'hypothetical' cannot in any meaningfull way be linked to reality.

However, it is always amusing to read how others believe they would react to 'voices'... there seems to be the common impression that (fundamentalist) believers would go 'Yes, Lord! Lemme get my knife!' whereas unbelievers will go 'Oh, pay no attention, that is just my schizophrenia playing up...' and reach for their medication.

 

[White Rabbit]

Abraham was in a very different position than any of us are today

How so?

 

[Bookofknowledge]

What would you do if god asks this?

1. Obey implicitly, no questions asked.
2. Tell god it is not correct and refuse.
3. Ask god for the reason and neverthless carry out the task
4. Ask god for the reason and decide based on the reason given.

Can anything else be funnier than option 2,3,4?

Those who acknowledge God (The Creator of All Things) will have second opinions?

hahaha

 

[Hydra009]

However, it is always amusing to read how others believe they would react to 'voices'... there seems to be the common impression that (fundamentalist) believers would go 'Yes, Lord! Lemme get my knife!' whereas unbelievers will go 'Oh, pay no attention, that is just my schizophrenia playing up...' and reach for their medication.

Revealing, isn't it?

 

[White Rabbit]

Can anything else be funnier than option 2,3,4?

Well I can think of a pretty funny option 5. Here's a hint: it's something Neo did on the Matrix first movie, prior to asking for a phone call

 

[Ram]

22.8% faith, and 77.2% moral justice.

That is a huge odd stacked against faith.

Well, I want to tell a small hindu story here that prompted me to raise this hypothetical question.

Sage Jamadagni was the father of Parashurama. One evening, the sage called Parashurama and asked him to kill his mother. To a brahmin, father's command is much more than anything else in the world. So Parashurama unquestioningly just beheaded his mother and brought the head to his father. THe sage got very pleased and said "You are my worthy son. What can I do for you in return. Ask me any boon you want". Parashurama said "I would be mighty pleased if you revive my mother". And it was granted!

In light of this story, I want to dissect the various possibilites.
1. Obey implicitly, no questions asked.

Now I mentioned it was indeed god that gave you the orders and not somebody else in disguise. So what to
take of it? A god's command has to be final. God can never do anything unrighteous. Why does he need you to
kill if he cannot do it himself? So it has to be understood as a thing you have to obey. God, by
definition is infallible. There should not be any circumstance under which the killing would be a sin
or in the wrong. A god that can kill also has the power to give back life. Killing is therefore no sin to
a god, and hence for you, since you are acting on behalf of god.

2. Tell god it is not correct and refuse.

That looks almost like atheism because you did not even want to hear a logic from god justifying the action.
There might have been many reasons beyond human intellect that god is using you to kill someone. Perhaps
your neigbour is good only in appearance and might be plotting on you?

Still that looks an acceptable answer. A person who gives this answer must be a very righteous person, who values it more than faith in god. I appreciate the moral justice of whoever answered this option.

3. Ask god for the reason and neverthless carry out the task.

That looks an odd possibility. If you were going to do it anyway it would be easier to it without questioning and have the satisfaction of obeying god. If god's answer does not impress you, you will feel guilty while carrying out the task.


4. Ask god for the reason and decide based on the reason given.

That seems very logical. I would expect god gave you this task just to check your sense of moral justice. I am sure you will not disappoint god by asking for an explanation for doing this crime.


Personally, I would go for 1 or 4. Both seem acceptable.

I dont view the the implicit obeying of god as a problem as long as it is guaranteed that the original message came from god. There is really no question of questioning god as many of the people have pointed out here.

Since we also have to account for a false god, it is better to go with option 4. Seek the reason, which should throw light on whether the message really came from god.


And finally, if you ever come across this situation in your real life, forget everything that went on this thread. Go for option 2 - REFUSE!

God will never ask anyone to do this. If it really asked you to kill, it possibly is an illusion.(that is right, you need treatment)

 

[Eudaimonist]

"True, but God asks Abraham to kill Isaac, so this situation does have precedent in Christianity."



There is a huge back story to that. Taking the scriptures out of context is removes does not allow people to fully know the true story, and taking it out of it’s context is not just the surrounding verses.

1) Many man worshiped “gods” that required child sacrifice to them. Abraham proved he was as devote man to do as God asked of him.

2) God should he did not want to our children sacrificed to him.

3) God foreshadowed what he will do with Jesus.

4) Plus a lot of other things…

God has told us since the death of Christ that were made anew through him. So refer back to the last post of mine…

So, would you have counselled Abraham to stand up to God and say "I will absolutely NOT sacrifice a human being!" or would you have counselled him to follow God's order?

 

[tocis]

Without a good reason I won't obey this request. If, for example, it can be shown that the "nice neighbor" isn't "nice" at all (say, he secretly rapes little children) I'd at least admit that there's some reason to do nasty things to him. But I'll not put his life at peril just because someone (anyone indeed) says "do this!".

 

[sanaa]

i voted for option 4 , Ram

 

[Rae]

I would never carry out an immoral act, no matter who told me to.

So what would you tell Abraham to do when God told him to sacrifice his child?

Tell the being that told him to sacrifice his child that he would never do such an evil thing and leave that being immediately.

 

[Rae]

Now I mentioned it was indeed god that gave you the orders and not somebody else in disguise.

--I disagree. No God would ever order such a thing. It might be a powerful being, but it's not a God if it orders an immoral action.

God can never do anything unrighteous.

--Then God didn't order me to kill anyone. Simple as that. If you want to argue that it was a God, then that God was ordering me to kill someone to make sure that I would never do such a thing, and when I refused, He/She would commend me for refusing to do any such evil.

There should not be any circumstance under which the killing would be a sin
or in the wrong.

--No. All killings are sinful and wrong.

 

[Ram]

--I disagree. No God would ever order such a thing. It might be a powerful being, but it's not a God if it orders an immoral action.

Read #50. That is what I have mentioned too.

--Then God didn't order me to kill anyone. Simple as that. If you want to argue that it was a God, then that God was ordering me to kill someone to make sure that I would never do such a thing, and when I refused, He/She would commend me for refusing to do any such evil.

Read #50. That is what I have mentioned too.

No. All killings are sinful and wrong.

I disagree here. Dont we hang criminals? Is that sin or wrong? Moreover sin applies to man only, not for god. Any being that can revive life can kill.

 

[dvd_holc]

My reference is hear and now. We live under the sacrifice of Jesus hear and now. The point is God would not tell me to do it right now.



Abraham and Isaac, I am not of that time. I was not in a time where people did sacrifice their children to gods. Living in that kind of environment is different. I would have asked him is he sure that God told him? From what is written, I would think that Abraham had trust in God that he would provide the sacrifice for him. Remember, God gave him Isaac when his wife was beyond age to have children. Isaac was God’s creation and he would do with him what was pleasing to him. Like I said before, God does not want us to sacrifice our children. Abraham proved his faith was greater than those of his time because he was not doing it out of selfish gains but pleasure of God and fear of God. And, Abraham was fully willing to kill Isaac for God.


Do you hate God for this? Do you not acknowledge that God showed that he does not want children or another person sacrificed to him? The sacrifice he wants is the sacrifice of our life to live the way he called us to live...that is for us to do his will rather than our own. This has not changed in the course of time…

 

[Rae]

Dont we hang criminals?

--Yes, and that's wrong. The death penalty should be eliminated.

Is that sin or wrong?

--ALL killing is "sinful" and wrong, yes.

sin applies to man only

--1. I'm a Pagan and I don't believe in the religious concept of sin.

2. If you're saying a supernatural being would order an immoral act, that being is ordering evil just as much as a man ordering the same thing would be doing.

 

[AimlessEMF]

Did anybody else notice the 13 year old who said they would kill the neighbor?
HOLY MOSES!! That seems screwed up to me.

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

God appears to you in person and asks you kill your freindly neighbour whom you know to be a very good soul. What would you do?

Why did you choose that option?

I'll call 911.